Is there any way to get your lore to 8 before level 5?

Jaypee · Post by **Jaypee** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 11:31 am

For Red Dragon Disciple I mean. I find those levels of bard or sorcerer totally useless because of the obvious ability bonuses with this prestige-class. I would like to have more fighter, paladin, barbarian, ranger or champion of torm levels with RDD.

Fiberfar · Post by **Fiberfar** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 12:24 pm

There is no way to get 8 ranks of lore before level 5. However, if you want more levels in Fighter or something, then only take one level of sorcerer/bard. and then the rest RDD and whatever else you like.

Jaypee · Post by **Jaypee** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 1:44 pm

You're right. That should do the trick with fighter. Never thought that though. But I wanted to be Champion of Torm/RDD, so it seems that I have to be stuck with the 5 bard levels.....

Magrus · Post by **Magrus** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 10:08 pm

[QUOTE=Jaypee]You're right. That should do the trick with fighter. Never thought that though. But I wanted to be Champion of Torm/RDD, so it seems that I have to be stuck with the 5 bard levels.....[/QUOTE]

The trick with certain multi-class things in this game, is the class limit. If your going to go Bard/CoT/RDD the, yes, your stuck waiting until you level either the bard, or CoT class until you have the required lore for RDD, or the bard or RDD class until you have the required weapon focus feat for WOT.

Personally, I prefer not to use the bard class unless I NEED the RDD class and healing spells. For some reason though I've never tried that build.

JackOfClubs · Post by **JackOfClubs** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 1:30 pm

Technically you can get Lore (or any other skill) to 8 before level 5 if you take Skill Focus as your level 3 feat. But the cost of a feat so early in the game is definitely a bad trade. The only reason this would be a good idea is if you wanted to max out the RDD levels as soon as possible but I don't really see the benefits as outweighing the cost even in this scenario.

Fiberfar · Post by **Fiberfar** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 1:35 pm

[QUOTE=JackOfClubs]Technically you can get Lore (or any other skill) to 8 before level 5 if you take Skill Focus as your level 3 feat. But the cost of a feat so early in the game is definitely a bad trade. The only reason this would be a good idea is if you wanted to max out the RDD levels as soon as possible but I don't really see the benefits as outweighing the cost even in this scenario.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, but the skill focus "lore" isn't ranks, only a bonus to the skill.

Hollans · Post by **Hollans** » Mon Apr 18, 2005 1:26 pm

Quick question - how do you get round the problem of the penalty to experience points if you only have one level in bard or sorcerer but want to be, say, a fighter/RDD/(bard/sorcerer)?

No races favour bard or sorcerer (please correct me if I have misread my manual!), so if you are non-human, you have to keep all the levels close. If you are human, then the highest level is ignored so assuming you don't want to major in bard or sorcerer, then you either have to keep the RDD & bard/sorcerer levels similar or ditto the fighter & bard/sorcerer levels. Or don't the prestige classes count in terms of xp penalties?

I was interested in the combining an RDD and monk but can't see any way of doing it without getting more than one level in bard/sorcerer or suffering xp penalties. Forgive me if I have misunderstood - I haven't played any prestige classes yet and would like to, but without penalty!

Screaming Johny · Post by **Screaming Johny** » Mon Apr 18, 2005 6:51 pm

You can MC with Fighter if you are a dwarf, otherwise you will have to MC as human (or half-elf) and make sure your main non-prestige class is always at a higher level than RDD. The other option is to ensure your non-RDD levels are within one of each other, but you are usually better off sinking most of your levels into one class.

One particularly nasty build I made was a half-orc Barbarian/Bard/RDD. I only put one level in Bard and left CH at 6. I found him too powerful in the official campaign and gave up on him.

Ripe · Post by **Ripe** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 12:33 am

Prestige classes should not be counted for multiclass penalty (at least they are not counted in P'n'P game) so you should wory only about Fighter and Bard/Sorcerer levels.

Screaming Johny · Post by **Screaming Johny** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 8:44 am

The Prestige class DOES count for the highest level class for humans (& half-elves). So as a human if you had Pal4-Sor1-RDD8, RDD would be your highest class and you would receive a MC penalty. Whereas if you had Pal9-Sor1-RDD8 you would not have a penalty as Pal is now your highest class and RDD is a prestige class.

This (human highest level class) is the only time Prestige classes have any bearing on multi-class penalties.

Ripe · Post by **Ripe** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 12:13 pm

Screaming Johny you're wrong, prestige classes are never taken in consideration when multiclassing, even if you are human or half-elf and prestige class is your highest class. I know that's not what 3.5 ed DMG said but that was a printing error which is taken care of with errata.
(Check recent FAQ on WotC homepage)

Hollans · Post by **Hollans** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 12:21 pm

Multiclassing & Prestige classes

Thanks - one thing to clarify though:-

Taking the example of the Human Pal 9 Sorc 1 RDD 8, would you need to keep the levels of Paladin and RDD within one of each other (while ensuring RDD doesn't exceed Paladin), or could you go up to Pal 9, then Pal 9 Sorc 1, then Pal 9 Sorc 1 RDD 1,2,3 etc?

I was hoping to get my Monk up to level 12, then focus on the RDD for a while.

NB - Ripe, just seen your post - sorry for being dense but what does WotC stand for and where can I find the FAQ referred to?

Cheers

Koreforce · Post by **Koreforce** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 9:18 pm

This probably sounds kind of dumb...but bear with me here, I've only played once up through maybe a sixteenth of the way through chapter 2...solo. Prestige classes don't count towards your MC penalty?

Screaming Johny · Post by **Screaming Johny** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 6:14 am

Ripe, Wizards of the Coast (WoTC) is talking about AD&D and the way the rules SHOULD be applied. It is well documented that in NWN the highest class -Presitge or otherwiase- will not be taken into account when determining MC penalties for humans. This is from searches here and on Bioware's site, and I tested it myself. Yes, this is redundant if that class is Prestige. Right or wrong, that's the way the game is programmed.

Yes, NWN is based on WoTC, but it is not 100%, thus it is not your best source of information for NWN.

And calling somebody wrong in a public place is just plain rude.

Koreforce, no Prestige classes are not taken into account when considering MC penalties, with the exeption of humans (and half-elves) if that Prestige Class is your highest level class.

Hollans · Post by **Hollans** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 4:54 pm

Okay,

So ...

1) Non human/Non Half-Elven race - totally ignore prestige class for purposes of mc experience penalty calculation (eg could have Dwarven Fighter 10, RDD 7, Sorc 1 with no penalty, or Dwarven RDD 10, Fighter 7, Sorc 1 ditto ?)

2) Human/Half Elf - provided prestige class is lower than other class, ignore prestige class (eg Human Monk 12, RDD 7, Sorc 1 with no penalty at any time assuming RDD was always lower level than Monk).

Please confirm above is correct - and make me a happy man!

Fiberfar · Post by **Fiberfar** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:30 am

But of course, you must remember that the other races have their favoured class.

Hollans · Post by **Hollans** » Sat Apr 23, 2005 6:33 pm

[QUOTE=Fiberfar]But of course, you must remember that the other races have their favoured class.[/QUOTE]

So in my example of the Dwarven Fighter there would be no penalty (even though the RDD prestige class is >1 level above Sorcerer), whereas if it was a Dwarven Monk, for example, there would have been penalties as the Monk levels are more than one above the Sorcerer (still ignoring the prestige class)?