Party problems (sp?)

kams · Post by **kams** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 6:29 am

I hate this game! Almost as much as I like it.

I am now at the end of 3 chapter - performing some minor tasks for Bodhi. All side quests exept Kangaax are done.
The problem is: I have both Viconia and Keldorn in my party. First there was just some small talk between those two - Keldorn started to mew something about "how bad it is to be a drow" but he had to shut up when Viconia asked him "You have any problems, male?" (Ooooh! I just LOVE her style!)

Then they had another conversation where Viconia again slapped this goody-goody old paladin. I was just having fun!

But yesterday - I was in the middle of Firkraag dungeon - just after the fight with the greater werewolf, Keldorn said something about "your time has come, drow witch" and dispached my Viconia with a single stroke of Lilarcor-the-Talking-Sword. And after that he asked me to continue on our travels!!!

Man that's stupid!!! I did not know that all these dialogs between party members can lead to such drastic results! I thought that they were just for fun!

I reloaded, of course, but my most resent save was before fighting 5 vampires! And I had to decide who shall leave my party - Keldorn or Viconia!
I chose Vic to stay - it is hard to find a good cleric in this part of the game. I don't even mention Aerie. Anomen is cool, but he is too low-level for me now, and I really hate his voice.

So Keldorn left my party. I took Mazzy on his place - probaly she will serve good.
But that is just stupid! I traveled with Keldorn for a long time, he earned a lot of exp and now I have to kick him away!

Well, I suppose it is good that he attacked my drow now - and not in the next chapter. That could be impossible to get a good tank on that stage.

So, my question is:
Will my new party have these peoblems again? I have Jaheira, Viconia, Mazzy, Haer'Dalis, Yoshimo (Imoen). How will this Lawful Good Mazzy react to Viconia? Or perhaps I would better take Korgan instead of her?

And another one:
Can anyone tell me about another party members, who can not stand each other and I will be forced to watch their duel or one will make another to leave or something?
That is for my next BG games. (I already passed this game 2 times and never ecounted such problems)

Astafas · Post by **Astafas** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 6:42 am

Hehe, a single stroke you said?

Firstly, there is a patch you can download which eliminates all NPC fights. With this installed, you may keep both Vic and Keldorn.

Personally, I prefer Anomen to Vic. Ano, with the right equip and spells, will do excellent as a backup tank (good STR and HPs, and the possibility to Grand Master). Hell, I've even used him as my main tank in some games! In addition, he blows up all those nasty vampires, for which I am oh so grateful.

Why is Anomen low level? The NPCs will advance with you, unless you have picked them up and then dumped them. Even this may easily be corrected (for it truly makes no sense) with ShadowKeeper.

There will be no fights between the listed NPCs.

krunchyfrogg · Post by **krunchyfrogg** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 3:49 pm

You dropped Keldorn, in Firkraag's dungeon! Man, you're just about to regret that one!

Screw Viccy, she sucks. Keldorn is much cooler, but that's just my opinion... you should go with who you like.

As for that "happy party" thing, it sounds like cheating to me.

Next time, pay attention to what your NPCs are saying (and mostly to their alignment)! Think about it: It makes sense that a Lawful Good Paladin doesn't get along with an Evil Drow Priestess, doesn't it?

fable · Post by **fable** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 4:27 pm

Kams, what was your party's reputation, when Keldorn finally pulled a blade on Viconia?

Patrick · Post by **Patrick** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 10:08 pm

From what I know about party feuds is this S P O I L E R highlight

I know Minsc has a problem with Edwin. I know Keldorn has a problem with Anoman. Hear' Dalis(?) has romance issues with Aerie if you have a male P.C.. Thats all I can think of right now. Did not even know about Keldorn and Vic.. I guess he has emotional problems with non-lawful goods.

dj_venom · Post by **dj_venom** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 12:19 am

I will build on that spoiler and correct one thing.

Firstly, Keldorn only fights Anomen IF Anomen fails the test, in which case Anomen attacks Aerie also.

An other conflict is between Korgan and Aerie.

What I want to know is how you aligned with Bodhi yet still had Keldorn, I thought Keldorn and Mazzy both left you if you joined with Bodhi.

Astafas · Post by **Astafas** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 12:38 am

[QUOTE=krunchyfrogg]As for that "happy party" thing, it sounds like cheating to me.[/QUOTE]

Well now, in order for it to be cheating you would have to gain some kind of advantage, don't you agree? It's not like the fights are there to prevent certain unstoppable NPC combinations... In addition, I think you will second me on that the most important is for each player to have the game they desire, and kams didn't seem to happy about the current situation.

kams · Post by **kams** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 1:08 am

Well, "not liked" is not the right word. This "party problems" add a lot of fun to the game, imho.
They just caught me unprepared.
I am not sure now if I will install that patch, but I downloaded it anyway (thx, btw).

I just want to make sure that nothing will now happen to my party while in the Spellhold. So, little crazy hobbit Mazzy will not attack my super-woman Viconia? She is Lawful Good as Keldorn...

As for Anomen, I just don't like his stupid voice. "Helm guides my path!" "The best leaders also follow." Bah.
And even if I take him - he will be too low-level for me now. (Uh. I used his help while cleaning out the slavers...)
And as I read in this tread, Anomen is also a very difficult char. (He attacks Aerie??? Monster! But he also attacks Keldorn... hm... God boy! I hate Keldorn for slaying Viconia!)

To Fable: My reputation was around 15 - I don't remember exactly. But it always falls down in the second part of the game - you know why..

Does it make any difference for Keldorn?

kams · Post by **kams** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 1:23 am

[QUOTE=dj_venom]
What I want to know is how you aligned with Bodhi yet still had Keldorn, I thought Keldorn and Mazzy both left you if you joined with Bodhi.[/QUOTE]

Uh.. Well... I cheated on this one a bit... When Keldorn refused to join Bodhi, I loaded a previous save and dropped my stupid paladin in some tavern. Then I went to the graveyard and joined Bodhi, then took Keldorn back again.

And all this troubles for nothing! Stupid Keldorn with his stupid morale! In my previous games I never got a chance to use Carsomir. I don't like Keldorn - he is just too good for me - but I had to sacrifice my opinion so I could lay my hands on this weapon...
And this crazy self-ritious pal attacked Viconia right before getting the sword! Grrr! I hate him even more now!

Astafas · Post by **Astafas** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 1:32 am

[QUOTE=kams]Uh.. Well... I cheated on this one a bit... When Keldorn refused to join Bodhi, I loaded a previous save and dropped my stupid paladin in some tavern. Then I went to the graveyard and joined Bodhi, then took Keldorn back again.

And all this troubles for nothing! Stupid Keldorn with his stupid morale! In my previous games I never got a chance to use Carsomir. I don't like Keldorn - he is just too good for me - but I had to sacrifice my opinion so I could lay my hands on this weapon...
And this crazy self-ritious pal attacked Viconia right before getting the sword! Grrr! I hate him even more now!

[/QUOTE]

A Bard or a Thief may use Carsomyr after choosing the Use Any Item in ToB. If you don't like Keldorn to start with, maybe that's an option...

Astafas · Post by **Astafas** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 1:36 am

[QUOTE=kams]Well, "not liked" is not the right word. This "party problems" add a lot of fun to the game, imho.
They just caught me unprepared.
I am not sure now if I will install that patch, but I downloaded it anyway (thx, btw).

I just want to make sure that nothing will now happen to my party while in the Spellhold. So, little crazy hobbit Mazzy will not attack my super-woman Viconia? She is Lawful Good as Keldorn...

As for Anomen, I just don't like his stupid voice. "Helm guides my path!" "The best leaders also follow." Bah.
And even if I take him - he will be too low-level for me now. (Uh. I used his help while cleaning out the slavers...)
And as I read in this tread, Anomen is also a very difficult char. (He attacks Aerie??? Monster! But he also attacks Keldorn... hm... God boy! I hate Keldorn for slaying Viconia!)

To Fable: My reputation was around 15 - I don't remember exactly. But it always falls down in the second part of the game - you know why..

Does it make any difference for Keldorn?[/QUOTE]

No, she won't attack Vic. If you go to the NPC pages here on GB, you'll find information of all the NPC disputes.

As for low level, you can add XPs with ShadowKeeper and level him up. I think it's plain stupid that the NPCs do not level up with you, as they normally do in newer games. Should it really matter that you had them in your party for a while?

Anomen only attacks if you make him fail his knighthood test. There's another very good reason for not letting him do so...

dj_venom · Post by **dj_venom** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 1:50 am

[QUOTE=kams]And as I read in this tread, Anomen is also a very difficult char. (He attacks Aerie??? Monster! But he also attacks Keldorn... hm... God boy! I hate Keldorn for slaying Viconia!)[/QUOTE]
No, as I said before, maybe not clearly, he only attacks because of a reason.
Spoiler
The NPC Quest for Anomen is being tested to see if he is fit to enter the Knight's of the Order. During which, he is told his sister dies. His father tells him it was his father's enemy Saerk, and his father says get revenge. What you do here is up to you, if you choose not to kill Saerk, your party stays as a happy family and Anomen enters the order, and does not kill your party members...

However if you kill Saerk, Anomen fails his test and is kicked out of the order. After this, he hates Keldorn for being better than him (being in the Order when he is not), and hates Aerie for being so good and nice.

Sorry for such a long-winded answer, but I for one do not find Anomen annoying, I think he is a good cleric and hey, with the dialogue I just told him to shut up. But each to his own.

kams · Post by **kams** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 7:06 am

[QUOTE=Astafas]No, she won't attack Vic. If you go to the NPC pages here on GB, you'll find information of all the NPC disputes.
[/QUOTE]

Uh. Yeah, sorry. I should have been looking there before I create a tread. I guess, I was just too upset with Keldorn slaying Viconia, so I didn't even think of looking there...

kams · Post by **kams** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 7:14 am

[QUOTE=Astafas]A Bard or a Thief may use Carsomyr after choosing the Use Any Item in ToB. If you don't like Keldorn to start with, maybe that's an option...[/QUOTE]

A bard can use Carsomir??? Wow! I have Haer'Dalis now! A little training - and everyone will know the fury of Kams the Terrible!

But there is one thing that sucks - I already sold the sword to a merchant. And I don't remember which one...

Well, I am off - I need to find this merchant and buy the sword back. If I remember correctly, I sold it to someone in Trademeet (or perhaps, Umar Hills???)... This will take some time...

Astafas · Post by **Astafas** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 7:31 am

[QUOTE=kams]A bard can use Carsomir??? Wow! I have Haer'Dalis now! A little training - and everyone will know the fury of Kams the Terrible!

But there is one thing that sucks - I already sold the sword to a merchant. And I don't remember which one...

Well, I am off - I need to find this merchant and buy the sword back. If I remember correctly, I sold it to someone in Trademeet (or perhaps, Umar Hills???)... This will take some time...[/QUOTE]

Hehe, you won't make a good trade on that sword, my friend...

A Bard can use the sword only after he chooses the High Level Ability (HLA) Use Any Item (UAI).

kams · Post by **kams** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 8:31 am

[QUOTE=Astafas]Hehe, you won't make a good trade on that sword, my friend...

A Bard can use the sword only after he chooses the High Level Ability (HLA) Use Any Item (UAI).[/QUOTE]

A question for my friend

Will Haer'Dalis use Carsomir efficiently? Or he just can pick up the sword, but can not fight with it because of thac0 penalties?

And another sad statement:
Merchants in Trademeet do not have my sword. Perhaps, I sold it somewhere else...
Or perhaps it is impossible to sell Carsomir (like it is impossible to sell Flail of Ages)? If so, then I dumped it in some dungeon and will never find it again...

Astafas · Post by **Astafas** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 8:37 am

[QUOTE=kams]A question for my friend

Will Haer'Dalis use Carsomir efficiently? Or he just can pick up the sword, but can not fight with it because of thac0 penalties?

And another sad statement:
Merchants in Trademeet do not have my sword. Perhaps, I sold it somewhere else...
Or perhaps it is impossible to sell Carsomir (like it is impossible to sell Flail of Ages)? If so, then I dumped it in some dungeon and will never find it again...[/QUOTE]

A Bard may put a profiency point in Two Handed Swords, so no penalties there. And a Blade may make better use of it than any other Bard or Thief (except perhaps for a Fighter/Thief).

I have a solution for you:

1) Put Carsomyr in your inventory with ShadowKeeper
2) Verify how much you would get if you sold it by entering any store
3) Reduce your gold with that amount by using ShadowKeeper once more
4) Enjoy that you're back in a situation where you never sold the goodie

Thrifalas · Post by **Thrifalas** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 8:58 am

I have a hard time seeing a Blade matching Carsomyr in the hands of a fighter/thief though. Yes, offensinve spin rocks, but so does Gtr. Whirlwind and a fighter/thief plainly has much better thac0 and damage and that stuff.

And do answer kams: Carsomyr is *always* efficient. -2 thac0 and damage can hardly be something to worry about when you have 50% magic res, dispell magic with every hit, and simply being a +5 that can be upgraded to +6 later on.

It is according to me (and prolly a lot else) the best weapon in the whole game and it's very stupid to get rid of it if you have a pala/bard/thief. Or well, I always keep it even if I don't have any of those. 50% magic res always works wonders.

Astafas · Post by **Astafas** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 9:11 am

[QUOTE=Thrifalas]I have a hard time seeing a Blade matching Carsomyr in the hands of a fighter/thief though. Yes, offensinve spin rocks, but so does Gtr. Whirlwind and a fighter/thief plainly has much better thac0 and damage and that stuff.[/QUOTE]

You apparently did not take time to read my post correctly. I specifically excepted the Fighter/Thief...

Thrifalas · Post by **Thrifalas** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 9:17 am

You *perhaps* excepted the fighter/thief, and I saw it as nothing to be "perhapsed"

nvm, it was unnecessary, my pardon.