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Dragonlance

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Rob-hin
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Dragonlance

Post by Rob-hin »

Hey I was just wondering if anyone here was experience with Dragonlance and give me a general feel of the world:
1- Is the world high / low magic?
2- How many information about geografie, culture and organisations is available?
3- How does the world compare to the Forgotten Realms?
4- What springs out about this world, in other words, what makes it good?

Thanks. :)
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Post by Magrus »

I've read the novels from the start up until recently, but never actually played the game, even though I have two of the game books. I'll go with the 3rd edition Dragonlance Campaign Setting book I have here.

1-Magic, it depends on what time period you play in within the game world. Older time periods have high magic, then very low, then low-medium, then to present when it went back to average which is what's presented in the book.

2-The information presented on geography, they give color maps, short descriptions of important towns/regions and important NPC's. They provide about a page or so on descriptions of each important town, along with such things as general population, government composition, trade, languages and alignments found in the area.

3-It's different, since I haven't actually played either, I can't say too well. However I can say, in some ways the way they wrote it, they made certain things restricted as a flavor type thing. For example, the Towers of High Sorcery. If your a wizard or sorcerer, and wish to use high level magic you had to join up, or become a renegade and be hunted down. This required passing a lethal test and if you passed you joined in, if not you died. Now they've added different classes to represent when deities dissapeared and mortals found their own way with things and such. It's got it's own little world apart from the FR. I personally find it more to my liking because it IS written in certain ways to add more flavor without simply granting power to add that flavor.

4-

a. Different Knightly Orders to join and progress in. Somewhat encompassing your Blackguard, CoT, Paladin, and Fighter classes, but in a different manner and with a definate background, history and feel to them.

b. High Sorcery orders. White, Red and Black Robes all encompass different alignments, work together on some issues, and struggle for power against each other as well. Arcane magic ends up becoming a political struggle at the higher ranks within the group. Otherwise, you end up being a renegade and being hunted, or joining with the new group of Mystics, which encompass almost a mix of sorcery type spell casting (as in innate) but blending clerical and wizardry type effects together.

c. Certain races have been written to encompass stereotypes which give them a distinct feel. Gnomes suddenly all are scientist/inventers and those that aren't are seen as "mad" and leave to wander on their own. Halflings are now Kender and immune to fear and have different abilities. Draconians were spawned from dark sorcery and the eggs of good dragons, creating a new, powerful race. The Irda, another race, the 1st ogres, who are good, isolationist and magical beings, before ogres were corrupted. Humans have been set apart and there are civilized stats and barbarian stats for human. Dwarves now have the "Gully Dwarf" subrace. Frightened, disgusting dwarves that make great thieves and comic characters.

High level campaigns can enter into dragon riding with dragon lances and there's a history of deities usurping power and trying to conquer the world through meddling with dragons and such.

You can wander outside the main continent and head to the south pole of the world to find a land of ice and a totally different setting with ogres, humans and thanoi constantly fighting and struggling for survival against brutal winter storms.

Hope that helps. ;)
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Post by Faust »

[QUOTE=Rob-hin]Hey I was just wondering if anyone here was experience with Dragonlance and give me a general feel of the world:
1- Is the world high / low magic?
2- How many information about geografie, culture and organisations is available?
3- How does the world compare to the Forgotten Realms?
4- What springs out about this world, in other words, what makes it good?

Thanks. :) [/QUOTE]

I'm a big fan of the Dragonlance novels and setting.

1. Whether or not Krynn is high/low magic depends a great deal on what era of Dragonlance history you place the game in. In general, when the gods are present the Dragonlance world is very high magic. To be a magic user you have to be sanctioned by one of the Tower of High Sorcery. You are, pretty much, defacto a magic specialist too. As you have to eventually determine your allegiance to one of the sub-orders of the Tower (which represent good, evil, and neutral magics, corresponding to a specific moon deity). Regardless, its actually a fairly interesting system in practice. Regardless, magic users are considered incredibly rare and potent.


2. There's quite a bit of information on Dragonlance that has been published just the past few years. Sovereign Press has been doing a lot of work on the world, trying to make it a viable D&D base world. There's not nearly as much as, say, the heavily money backed Eberron or Forgotten Realms. Anyway, The Dragonlance Campaign Setting is a good overview for the setting including a fair amount of geographic information. Also, Tasslehoff's Map Pouch: The Age of Mortals was just released. I've not looked at it, but i hear good things. Likewise, there's a variety of key sourcebooks on various things and ages in Krynn's history already out or on their way out. Check out places like the Dragonlance Nexus. for a lot of good player synthesized information on the world as well. Its very useful.

3-4. Dragonlance is a much smaller world than the Forgotten Realms. I'm not really talking about geography, either. Forgotten Realms is ultimaly a hodgepodge for about everything you can think of. Dragonlance is not. It's something that is characterized by its cohesiveness.

Essentially, Krynn is an inherently political world, with factions - often secretly controlled by gods themselves - plotting for supremacy. As such, the world and the adventures in it often have both political and epic feels to them. The characters are not more powerful than gods. They are weaklings in the grand scheme of things caught up in events 1000 times bigger than themselves. Yet, somehow, their heroism or, alternatively, scheming is what ultimately can make the difference.

Anyway, my best recommendation would be to pick up some of the novels. Read the Dragonlance Chronicles and Legends. My guess is that you'll fall in love with the world immediately. Weiss and Hickman are really extraordinary fantasy writers, certainly their worst work puts even the best Forgotten Realm novel to shame, or at least that's been my experience.

Still, some players don't respond to Dragonlance. It's not really a power gamers world. It's a storytellers one, though.
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Post by Aegis »

I've always enjoyed the fact that high level in Dragonlance is essentially level 15 or so. That removes one of my biggest pet peeves regarding the rest of DnD, which is epic level characters.
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Post by Rob-hin »

[QUOTE=Faust]Still, some players don't respond to Dragonlance. It's not really a power gamers world. It's a storytellers one, though.[/QUOTE]

I like this line. :D

Both of you mention many interesting things about Dragonlance and I like the feel of it. Still, I wonder if there are proper books available; is number and quality. For this, I'll have to look at my fantasy store and see what they have available.

edit:
Aegis, I also like that point. When you take into account that some characters in FR are over level 30, it sometimes is too much. However, eventhough players easily get beyond level 10, relativly few NPC's are of that level; making you too a high level.

But the PHB goes to level 20, how does Dragonlance deal with that?
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Post by Faust »

[QUOTE=Rob-hin]I like this line. :D

But the PHB goes to level 20, how does Dragonlance deal with that?[/QUOTE]

It doesn't really. The Dragonlance Campaign Setting represents classes up to their 20th level. However, Aegis is right. Finding a 20th level character is very rare in the world. The Dragonlance world is really better geared toward lower level characters (well at least sub-15). An epic level campaign would be a bit of a challenge to run in this world, and not ideally suited for it.

As for proper books, I'm not sure what you're looking for. There's quite a bit out there, and more ever coming out. Among others -

The Dragonlance Campaign Setting has limitations, but is a very fine general setting book. It effectively breaks down the world's geography, deities, classes, and history. I really liked it, for the most part. As I mentioned earlier, Tasslehoff's Map Pouch: The Age of Mortals also will supplement your campaign, with a variety of geographic information and maps.


The Age of Mortals Companion, give you even more information on the present era of the Dragonlance world (including geography). Likewise, the War of the Lance Dragonlance Setting is another fine book on that player favorite era of Dragonlance history. Likewise, there are lengthy (huge) adventure campaigns published for the Age of Mortals (Key of Destiny vols 1-3 - which is very good), and one coming out for the War of the Lance. There's another time period sourcebook on the way too, focused around the events in the Legends Trilogy (so post-War of the Lance).

For class specifics, there's a variety of things as well. There's the Tower of High Sorcery Companion (which I've not looked at, but have high expectations for) and in June the Holy Order of the Stars (cleric) Companion will be published.

I'd add, that the Dragonlance World actually started out as a series of adventure models. As such, there is a ton of Dragonlance material for 2E and D&D you can pick up at ye ole used book store and synthesize to your liking. Some of it has already been done for you on the web. As I mentioned earlier, the Dragonlance Nexus has a tremendous amout of player made modules and campaign information. There's even a couple game developers who have leant their hand to the site.

On top of this, there's also a plethora of Dragonlance novels published which provide wonderful background information. Really the novels set the tone for the world, in a way that is unlike any other D&D setting.
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Post by Rob-hin »

Thanks to Jopperm for moving the thread. :)

Dragonlance really got me intregued.
The reason I'm interested is because I'm looking into other settings, other then the FR, to keep things from getting 'all of the same'.

Dragonlance seems like a good choice to look into.
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Post by Magrus »

It's definately got a different feel and atmosphere. I like it, they throw in a section in the book I mentioned that will help you adjust to different time settings too in case you get bored with the most recent one, you can go back through time there too.

If you do read the novels for the dragonlance saga by Wiess and Hickmann, they designed the basis of the whole thing. Those novels would give you insight beyond the rule books as to how they thought of the world. Might give you an adventure to play too to get the feel of things at first. :)
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Post by jopperm2 »

NP Rob. :D

Dragonlance is pretty cool. I've never played, but I did play in a campaign that was home made and the DM was heavily influenced by it. PM Mah, I think he would have some expertise being a Kender and all. They're from Krynn IIRC.

It has a much earthier feel to it. More fighting with steel. Lots of Dwarves and taverns. That sort of thing. I have a book from 2e that is a DL sourcebook somewhere. It's like More Leaves from the Something or other Inn. It has a lot of stories, songs, recipes(some of them are really tasty) and other things. Lots of fun.
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Post by Rudar Dimble »

I've got Dragons of Autumn Twilight, the first book in the Dragonlance Chronicles saga. It's a very interesting book and I enjoyed it! You could borrow it and read it, just to get a glimp of the world...
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Post by Rob-hin »

I would but I just started Robin Hobb's; The Living Ships triology.
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Post by Rudar Dimble »

[QUOTE=Rob-hin]I would but I just started Robin Hobb's; The Living Ships triology.[/QUOTE]
Ah, Rob-hin and Robin Hobb...the unbreakable alliance :) . I'll have to get reading some of those books aswell, since you like them so much and we tend to have the same taste when it comes to stories :cool:
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Post by Ripe »

I'm not sure if they change it with 3rd ed but in 2nd ed AD&D (edition by which I played Dragonlance campaign) all named spells (spells named after some mage, eg. Mordenkain's Sword, Tasha's Hideous Laughter, Melf's Acid Arrow) DID NOT exist on Krynn which in 2nd ed was a serious problem to spellcasters 'couse some of the best spells were named spells.

And purely for a feel of a fantasy world: On Krynn there is NO Orcs. Battling goblins and orcs is one of the biggest cliche in any fantasy world and you cannot do that with Dragonlance.
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Post by Magrus »

That is a good point I forgot to mention. However, the ogres and draconians tend to have a much stronger presence in the game as enemies. At least in the novels this setting is based off of, you end up with more human vs. elves, or elves vs. dwarves, or elves vs. elves, than said races vs. monsters in most other settings. It IS a lot more political and the conflicts with monsters tend be larger and more threatening than finding 4 goblins springing out of a bush that you thwak and wander on your way. I find that to be more "realistic", granted fantasy is fantasy, but "monsters" should be threatening and able to cause great harm.

There was far, far less variety of creatures that FR. Simply more variety in what was going on with the races prevalent than another setting. I don't see why you can't alter that if you wish to and bring other creatures into the setting, but thats how it was portrayed in the novels the setting was built around.

As far as the spells thing, the setting has it's own famous mages. It shouldn't be too hard to make up new spells based on those mages. You don't even have to know about the history to do so, just make up your own and throw them in. Although the books regarding Raistlin, Dalamar and Huma would give you insight into 4 of the most famous arcane magic user's in the history of the setting (Raistlin, his apprentice Dalamar, Magius (Huma's partner) and Fistandidalus (sp?)).

It definately has a more "down to earth" setting for the basis, and then suddenly earth shaking events take over when the deities and dragons make an appearence into the world.
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Post by Cuchulain82 »

The great thing about Dragonlance is that it was largely defined by the writing, not the game mechanics. The "Dragons" trilogy (is it a trilogy anymore, after DoSF?) by Weis and Hickman was one of the first D&D trilogies written, and it largely defined the arc of the world.
(Douglas Niles' Moonshae books are the only other books that I can think of that are from the same era, but they didn't have such a profound effect)

Almost everything that Weis and Hickman wrote went on to become focal points of the world- the incredible power of Dragons, the white/red/black mages, the knightly orders, etc. As more and more books were written, the world became more and more defined, and the campaign setting followed (yes, I know that Raistlin started out as a PC). Everything that they wrote is so different from the other worlds, but only in subtle ways- ie- there are warriors and there are knights and they are different; there are dragons but they are almost demi-gods; no orcs; relatively low level characters; kender; the list goes on and on, and encompasses almost everything that people have already said. In Dragonlance, if you could cast a Powerword spell, you were a very powerful character. This is completely different from the Realms, where 30th level spellcasters exist in almost every city, and the Chosen of the Gods kill each other off with abandon.

The Realms has come to be defined by the gaming (imo), not the storytelling. There are so many suppliments, regional books, class books, details about organizations and characters, etc. Compare the number of Dragonlance novels to the number of Realms novels, and then do the same with suppliments- my intuition tells me that there will be many more novels for Dragonlance and more gaming suppliments for the Realms (at least early on- Drizzt kinda throws a wrench in that whole theory). It is almost like Ed Greenwood thought "Wouldn't it be cool to run around in a place like this?!" and then made the Realms. For Weis and Hickman, it is like they said, "Wouldn't this make a great story? Let's write it down!"

Also, as I have mentioned before, it is a rule of dorkdom that every gamer has to have some old Dragonlance suppliment that gets in the way, and you always think you're gonna use but don't ever actually read/consult/enjoy.
(Usually this is the Leaves of the Inn of the Big Tree with All the Recipies In It ;) :D
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Post by Rob-hin »

You guys make this world more and more interesting by every post.
I'll have to loop my bookstore up... or wait for my birthday. ;)
*cough 3 juli cough* :p
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Post by Ned Flanders »

DL was definitely my favorite time as a D&D player. The group I played with built our campaigns around info and history in the novels and the modules (DL1 through DL16), though we never actually played the modules. I think we got started on it before the first DL adventures hard bound rule book existed (which I believe was 2nd edition).

I hadn't realized DL perservered in such a fashion as to warrant 3rd edition and 3.5 rule books. Again, as most have pointed out, it is different, and not for power gamers. Personally, I think the best thing to do is to devour novels (both PC's and DM's). It will provide a better perspective than rule books can provide, and will provide better insight into the political spectrums and racial segregation of the realms.
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Post by jopperm2 »

I think it's also important to remark that Dragonlance novels are in general; better written than some of the other D&D novels, which can be quite cliche at times.
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Post by Math Mannaman »

It’s been a long time since I played dragon lance, but what sticks out in my mind was wizards were very challenging. I think there was three orders that you were required to be from, each with their own specific schools. I think they were red black and white. If you did not want to be of one these orders, you were considered a “renegade” mage, and this basically made your life real difficult. I think around level three is when you are required to join one of the orders. They would all solicit you to join their order, but after you chose other orders would – for the most part – leave you alone. I can’t remember the whole dynamic, but I think these orders were in some for of competition, each with opposing views.

Two other things about DL just came to me. Tinkers and Kenders. Tinkers are way fun to play and really give the PC a chance for some creative expression – mad gnome inventor style. I believe there was a famous order of tinker gnomes whose life quest was to become Knights of (Solantis?) so they spent their entire existence trying to build a wearable machine that would en-able them to fight as a Knight.

Kenders. Ah geese. These creatures can really make life tough for a serious adventuring company. Absent minded, naive, and constant troublemakers. There was a guy in our group who loved playing Kenders, I think it gave him a chance to act like a kid, which fit his personality – anyways, Kenders always seemed to mix things up in the adventure, for better or Worse.
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Post by Aegis »

The colour of the robes usually corresponded with your alignment (White, good. Red, neutral. Black, evil), and more often than not, a wizard was of a lawful alignment.

As for the Tower of High Socery, it's great, as you join, or you become hunted down, as has been stated, as a renegade. This really regulates magic in a fantastic manner. Also, the bonus's attached to association with the Tower in Wayreth were great as well: Powerful magic item, access to libraries with spells and knowledge, and access to labs. All of which were free to members.

As a player, I could care less, as I tend to avoid playing castors (my nature just doesn't work with them. I tend to be the finesse fighter of the group, or the cleric). But, from a GM perspective, I'd had a ton of fun with that.
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