Bards and Composite longbows

Melondar · Post by **Melondar** » Sat May 21, 2005 5:32 am

Bards and Composite longbows and shields

I just started a new game with a Bard, giving him proficiency in Long Bows, and now that I've gotten one from a goblin of all things, I can't use it. Why on earth should a goblin be able to use a composite longbow but I can't?

Also, I've put points into sword&shield style, but I get a medium shield and find I can't use it either. What gives? Isn't a bard supposed to be a jack of all trades? Why can't I use anything?

Anyway, is there a mod out there that could just remove those two restrictions, or is there a way I can do it myself?

Arch_Angel · Post by **Arch_Angel** » Sat May 21, 2005 6:08 am

Do you have Throne Of Bhaal? The bard gets "Use Any Item" as one of their HLA's. It'll let you use any weapon or armour in the game in any combonation you like. Generally speaking the bard is similar to a thief kit, if the weapon states that it's not usable by thieves then it's most likely your bard won't be able too as well.

Melondar · Post by **Melondar** » Sat May 21, 2005 6:35 am

Yes, well, being that I'm in Irenicus' dungeon and in desperate need of some ranged weaponry, that isn't going to help me one bit. I also don't see any reason that a bard (especially a skald) shouldn't be able to use those items, so that's why I just want to remove the restrictions.

VonDondu · Post by **VonDondu** » Sat May 21, 2005 6:45 am

The only way I know to remove those restrictions is to edit the items you want to use and add a useability flag for Bards and whichever kits you play with. Considering the number of items you'd have to edit, I don't think it would be worth your while.

Bards can't use composite longbows, and the only kind of shield they can use is a buckler. That's the way the class restrictions work. Since there aren't many bucklers and longbows worth having in the game, it's not a good idea to put any proficiency points into Sword and Shield Style or Longbows.

The good news is that there are several excellent shortbows in the game, and Bards can use all of them. Bards can also cast spells like Mirror Image and Stoneskin that make shields and armor less important than they are for other classes. I usually equip my Bards with a ranged weapon and a two-handed weapon, which makes it easy to switch between weapons, and put proficiency points in Two Handed Weapon Style, or I give them a ranged weapon and a single-handed weapon and put proficiency points in Single Weapon Style. Blades can dual-wield effectively at higher levels when their base THAC0 is low enough, but I don't try to dual-wield with characters who have less than two proficiency points in Two Weapon Style.

If you have just started the game, you might consider starting over. That would let you change your proficiency points, and you could select different spells. For example, I think you should start with Magic Missile, Spook, Glitterdust, Resist Fear, Skull Trap, Melf's Minute Meteors, Remove Magic, and Flame Arrow. You can rest in Irenicus's dungeon, and it's a good idea for a character (or party) who relies on spells.

Melondar · Post by **Melondar** » Sat May 21, 2005 8:23 am

I realize that I can rest in Irenicus' Dungeon, but it just seems so unrealistic, so I choose not to. I mean seriously, if you're in the middle of escaping from a dungeon are you really going to think it's a good idea to sit and rest for 8 hours?

Anyway, I guess it wouldn't be such a bad idea to restart. I guess I'll put points into Halberds and Shortbows or something like that anyway - But it still makes no damn sense to have these restrictions. I mean really, you expect to see a bard wielding a halberd, but not a sword and shield, or a longbow? That just makes no sense.

Astafas · Post by **Astafas** » Sat May 21, 2005 9:27 am

[QUOTE=Melondar]I realize that I can rest in Irenicus' Dungeon, but it just seems so unrealistic, so I choose not to. I mean seriously, if you're in the middle of escaping from a dungeon are you really going to think it's a good idea to sit and rest for 8 hours?

Anyway, I guess it wouldn't be such a bad idea to restart. I guess I'll put points into Halberds and Shortbows or something like that anyway - But it still makes no damn sense to have these restrictions. I mean really, you expect to see a bard wielding a halberd, but not a sword and shield, or a longbow? That just makes no sense.[/QUOTE]

You may use ShadowKeeper to redistribute your profiency points instead of restarting, download here.

I frequently play Bards and may inform you that there are several nice "ordinary" Long Bows in the game, one that is available very early as well. So stick with that profiency, it makes perfect sense for a Bard to use a beautiful Long Bow. In addition, the Sword & Shield Style won't be that interesting any more as you would have to switch weapon all the time. Use for example Long Swords and Single Weapon Style instead.

Astafas · Post by **Astafas** » Sat May 21, 2005 9:29 am

[QUOTE=Melondar]I realize that I can rest in Irenicus' Dungeon, but it just seems so unrealistic, so I choose not to. I mean seriously, if you're in the middle of escaping from a dungeon are you really going to think it's a good idea to sit and rest for 8 hours?[/QUOTE]

Imoen will justify your choise of sleeping.

Thrifalas · Post by **Thrifalas** » Sat May 21, 2005 1:13 pm

[QUOTE=Melondar]I mean really, you expect to see a bard wielding a halberd, but not a sword and shield, or a longbow? That just makes no sense.[/QUOTE]

A bard wielding Halberds, are there anything more awesome? I think not - gives your character some characteristics. How boring isn't a regular sword hanging by the side compared to a 2 meter long halberd on the back which he can handle with ease?

I agree that Bards should be able to use Shields and Composite Long Bows though. You *can* use Long bow, just so you know. It's just the composite ones you'll have to watch out for.

Arch_Angel · Post by **Arch_Angel** » Sun May 22, 2005 3:13 am

[QUOTE=Melondar]Yes, well, being that I'm in Irenicus' dungeon and in desperate need of some ranged weaponry, that isn't going to help me one bit. [/QUOTE]

Hence the 2nd part of my post Generally speaking the bard is similar to a thief kit, if the weapon states that it's not usable by thieves then it's most likely your bard won't be able too as well.

The bard is indeed a jack of all trades, but as the description says he's a master of none. The bard CAN use shields, CAN use bows. Just in a limited fashion.

Astafas · Post by **Astafas** » Sun May 22, 2005 3:46 am

[QUOTE=Melondar]Yes, well, being that I'm in Irenicus' dungeon and in desperate need of some ranged weaponry, that isn't going to help me one bit. I also don't see any reason that a bard (especially a skald) shouldn't be able to use those items, so that's why I just want to remove the restrictions.[/QUOTE]

They game on normal level sure is not supposed to be that difficult, what level are you playing on? Why not give Minsc the Composite Long Bow you got, and stay back throwing your spells? It seems somewhat strange to choose your profiences for the very small part of the game that is supposed to serve as introduction...

Melondar · Post by **Melondar** » Sun May 22, 2005 5:05 am

Astafas: I didn't choose my proficiencies for that part of the game, I chose them because with the party I'm making, nobody else will be using long bows, and bards have a bit of an AC problem which can be fixed with a good shield (That one in adventurer's mart gives -4AC, -7 vs missiles, for example.) The reason I don't just give the bow to Minsc is that I (for the first time) decided not to take Minsc or Jaheira. So right now, it's just Imoen and me - And without a shield right now, I only have 1 AC, plus since I don't want to rest, the only spells I have are Imoen's. That's what is making the dungeon so difficult. If I chose to rest whenever I needed to, it would be a breeze to get through it, but that's unrealistic, so I'm not doing it.

Astafas · Post by **Astafas** » Sun May 22, 2005 10:09 am

[QUOTE=Melondar]If I chose to rest whenever I needed to, it would be a breeze to get through it, but that's unrealistic, so I'm not doing it.[/QUOTE]

In a world where magic is memorised by sleeping, and where magic can be the difference between life and death, I don't find it unrealistic. I then find it more strange to not let your former friends join you in your efforts to seek a way out of the dungeon.

Deadalready · Post by **Deadalready** » Tue May 24, 2005 9:35 am

I must say I'm of similar mindset in that I dislike resting, I practically only rest when fatigued or have time related quests.

It's not realistic to not rest though, imagine adventuring for a month non stop...

Andyr · Post by **Andyr** » Tue May 24, 2005 11:36 am

Your bard should be able to use Composite Long Bows - however, bear in mind that you must also have at least 18 Strength to do so.

Melondar · Post by **Melondar** » Tue May 24, 2005 2:45 pm

Andyr, no, it specifically says when you right-click the bow that it is not usable by bards. And I made sure my character had 18 strength just so he could use the bows.

Wabbit · Post by **Wabbit** » Wed May 25, 2005 2:01 am

I just want to put in a vote for dual-wielding for Bards, it helps alleviate their low number of attacks (especially with Belm in the off hand) and the THACO issue can be adjusted for with items.

Astafas · Post by **Astafas** » Wed May 25, 2005 3:01 am

[QUOTE=Wabbit]I just want to put in a vote for dual-wielding for Bards, it helps alleviate their low number of attacks (especially with Belm in the off hand) and the THACO issue can be adjusted for with items.[/QUOTE]

This is ony recommended for Blades though. Dual wielding with just one profiency point in that particular style is hardly worth it. Rather equip them with the Tuigan Bow or Darts if you want more attacks.

stramoski · Post by **stramoski** » Wed May 25, 2005 4:45 am

Mod answer

I think everyone forgot about the mod question posed...

There is a mod that will allow you anyone to any weapon... It's called the ashes of embers (or something like that).

Goto modlist.pocketplane.net
then enter the BG2/Mods/Rules & Tweaks category.

I don't think it'll help with your shield weilding. I usually pick up the rougue rebalancing mod, which gives the shadow theives more items to sell... Including some great bucklers. Also, the item upgrade mod will allow you to forge a Holy Buckler of Amnamotor (whatever the sun god's name is). It kicks undead but.

Andyr · Post by **Andyr** » Wed May 25, 2005 12:19 pm

[QUOTE=Melondar]Andyr, no, it specifically says when you right-click the bow that it is not usable by bards. And I made sure my character had 18 strength just so he could use the bows.[/QUOTE]

Oh, hmm. I'd not realised before, since Bards can use almost any other weapon type as you said. You might want to try the Ashes of Embers mod someone linked to a few posts back.