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IWD2 powergaming guide
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silverdragon72
- Posts: 850
- Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:53 am
- Contact:
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silverdragon72
- Posts: 850
- Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:53 am
- Contact:
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Table of content:
1. links to other usefull powergaming guides
2. powergaming and HOF
3. Ultimate AC
4. Races
5. Classes
6. Basic MC concepts
7. powerfull MC-builds - party concept
7.1. powerfull MC-builds - PC1 - spellsword
7.2. powerfull MC-builds - 2nd PC - battle cleric
7.3. powerfull MC-builds - 3rd PC - main divine caster
7.4. Powerfull MC-builds - 4th PC - artillery
7.5. Powerfull MC-builds - 5th PC - diplomat / party support
7.6. powerfull MC-builds - 6th PC - secondary arcane caster - spellsword
7.7.
7.8.
7.9.
8. level-up concepts
8.1. party with less then 6 PC
8.2. level squatting
8.3. muling
9. Powergaming, Mods & HOF
10. to be continued...
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Table of content:
1. links to other usefull powergaming guides
2. powergaming and HOF
3. Ultimate AC
4. Races
5. Classes
6. Basic MC concepts
7. powerfull MC-builds - party concept
7.1. powerfull MC-builds - PC1 - spellsword
7.2. powerfull MC-builds - 2nd PC - battle cleric
7.3. powerfull MC-builds - 3rd PC - main divine caster
7.4. Powerfull MC-builds - 4th PC - artillery
7.5. Powerfull MC-builds - 5th PC - diplomat / party support
7.6. powerfull MC-builds - 6th PC - secondary arcane caster - spellsword
7.7.
7.8.
7.9.
8. level-up concepts
8.1. party with less then 6 PC
8.2. level squatting
8.3. muling
9. Powergaming, Mods & HOF
10. to be continued...
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silverdragon72
- Posts: 850
- Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:53 am
- Contact:
1. links to other usefull powergaming guides
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there are actually 2 other powergaming guides I would recommend to have a look at:
UPP = ultimate powergaming party - by Ken J. Egervari
JUPP = jukka's ultimate powergaming party - by Jukka Mikkonen
link to UPP:
[QUOTE=Brynn]On creating a party & some battle strategies: Egervari's guide[/QUOTE]
link to JUPP:
http://koti.mbnet.fi/~jmikkone/jupp.txt
some notes concerning UPP:
good guide to understand the basic game-concepts and tactics
but I can't follow his "pro human" argumentation
also from my point of view the party / PC-builds are not that ultimate
but read it and have your own mind!
some notes concerning JUPP:
even a more detailed guide as the original UPP - and a must to read for every powergamer!
JUPP contains some very extreme builds - especially the "DG - decoy" concept that I personally don't like - even if this build is quite ultimate!
With the JUPP approach, recommending a party of 4 and an excessive use of muling and level-squatting, you will reach level 30 - the "ultimate status" - quite early in the game - and at this point the party is without any doubt ultimate!
Contrary to JUPP my approach tries to be as ultimate as possible at almost every point of the game but also tries to have versatile party / PC-builds being quite ultimate on their own!
I would assume that this party concept is more powerfull in early- and midgame and very late in the game then the one suggested by JUPP (cause 6 level 30 PCs are just better then only 4 level 30 PCs ) while the JUPP concept is better when the level difference is in favour of JUPP (end of normal game and beginning of HOF)
...but feel free to try both concepts and judge yourself!
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there are actually 2 other powergaming guides I would recommend to have a look at:
UPP = ultimate powergaming party - by Ken J. Egervari
JUPP = jukka's ultimate powergaming party - by Jukka Mikkonen
link to UPP:
[QUOTE=Brynn]On creating a party & some battle strategies: Egervari's guide[/QUOTE]
link to JUPP:
http://koti.mbnet.fi/~jmikkone/jupp.txt
some notes concerning UPP:
good guide to understand the basic game-concepts and tactics
but I can't follow his "pro human" argumentation
also from my point of view the party / PC-builds are not that ultimate
but read it and have your own mind!
some notes concerning JUPP:
even a more detailed guide as the original UPP - and a must to read for every powergamer!
JUPP contains some very extreme builds - especially the "DG - decoy" concept that I personally don't like - even if this build is quite ultimate!
With the JUPP approach, recommending a party of 4 and an excessive use of muling and level-squatting, you will reach level 30 - the "ultimate status" - quite early in the game - and at this point the party is without any doubt ultimate!
Contrary to JUPP my approach tries to be as ultimate as possible at almost every point of the game but also tries to have versatile party / PC-builds being quite ultimate on their own!
I would assume that this party concept is more powerfull in early- and midgame and very late in the game then the one suggested by JUPP (cause 6 level 30 PCs are just better then only 4 level 30 PCs
) while the JUPP concept is better when the level difference is in favour of JUPP (end of normal game and beginning of HOF)...but feel free to try both concepts and judge yourself!
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silverdragon72
- Posts: 850
- Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:53 am
- Contact:
2. powergaming and HOF
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q: what has powergaming to do with HOF?
a: much! First you need to play HOF to get the EXP for reaching level 20 to 30 - and most powergaming builds are based on 25 to 30 levels. Second you need a powergaming party to beat HOF!
q: what are the differences between "normal" and HOF?
a: all monster are much tougher - normal monsters now have:
- several hundred HP
- BAB up to 52 -> also resulting in more attacks per round!
- increased AC
- sometimes better resistance (SR, DR, to elements)
- increased saves (especially fortitude)
- increased stats
- they deal much more damage
- they use more powerfull spells and so on
- but: the used weapons are the same as in "normal" (-> means DR still works pretty well)
- and your own summons get the same power increase like the enemies!
q: how does this influence the game?
a: in several ways:
- your PCs can't stand melee without an ultimate AC or buffs like MI!
- if you don't have the one or the other you need to rely on summons - but due to the casting time this won't work in every battle!
- due to the immense HP in HOF damage based spells are quite useless
- for the same reason the effectivness of all HP or hit dice based spells is dramatically decreased (e.g. "powerword"-spells)
- turning undead won't work (that good) anymore due to high fort-saves - besides you have a cleric build (CHA-boni) for turning undead (not recommended)!
- also most fort-save based spells won't work anymore! (but WoB still works pretty well for some reasons )
- builds without caster-levels aren't ultimate in HOF
...under construction!
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q: what has powergaming to do with HOF?
a: much! First you need to play HOF to get the EXP for reaching level 20 to 30 - and most powergaming builds are based on 25 to 30 levels. Second you need a powergaming party to beat HOF!
q: what are the differences between "normal" and HOF?
a: all monster are much tougher - normal monsters now have:
- several hundred HP
- BAB up to 52 -> also resulting in more attacks per round!
- increased AC
- sometimes better resistance (SR, DR, to elements)
- increased saves (especially fortitude)
- increased stats
- they deal much more damage
- they use more powerfull spells and so on
- but: the used weapons are the same as in "normal" (-> means DR still works pretty well)
- and your own summons get the same power increase like the enemies!
q: how does this influence the game?
a: in several ways:
- your PCs can't stand melee without an ultimate AC or buffs like MI!
- if you don't have the one or the other you need to rely on summons - but due to the casting time this won't work in every battle!
- due to the immense HP in HOF damage based spells are quite useless
- for the same reason the effectivness of all HP or hit dice based spells is dramatically decreased (e.g. "powerword"-spells)
- turning undead won't work (that good) anymore due to high fort-saves - besides you have a cleric build (CHA-boni) for turning undead (not recommended)!
- also most fort-save based spells won't work anymore! (but WoB still works pretty well for some reasons
)- builds without caster-levels aren't ultimate in HOF
...under construction!
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silverdragon72
- Posts: 850
- Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:53 am
- Contact:
3. Ultimate AC
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Basics:
q: what is the maximum AC you can reach in IWD2?
a: in IWD2 you can reach AC up to 80+!
q: why do I need such an high AC?
a: in HOF mode standard enemies have a BAB up to 52 - some bosses even more - and deals tons of damage per hit. With an AC of 72+ you will only get hit when rolling a 20!
q: are there other chances to get close to invincible to melee damage?
a: YES! - a good AC ~60 *and* MI, blink, blur and stoneskin will give you more or less the same protection! - even MI, blink, blur and stoneskin alone are quite powerfull if you recast MI when needed!
q: is one monk level and maxed WIS the only way to get up to 72?
a: NO! - but the easiest one - you could also use chain of drakkas and max DEX - but then you need more or less all other possibilities to increase AC!
[QUOTE=silverdragon72]
what do I need to get an AC 72+?
there are several combinations possible:
- at least one monk level
- a DG
- enough Wiz levels to get tensers
- enough Wiz level to get shield
- enough cleric levels to get divine shell
- a level 12 druid in your party
- maxed DEX and / or WIS (with spells and items)
- using several items giving natural armour boni
- potions increasing permanently WIS
- at least a level as cleric of Bane or a PAL level to get quest boni on WIS!
calculation:
10 - Basic AC
07 - DEX (24 with cats grace or slippers - up to 30 with tensers -> 10)
13 - WIS (with quests, potions, every god ring and maxed out stats 36+)
----
30 - basic & stat boni - 33 to 35 possible
05 - expertise (13 INT needed)
----
05 - feats
03 - sunfire talisman
05 - bands (from wandering village)
----
08 - items
07 - shield (armor)
06 - divine shell (deflection)
04 - haste (generic)
----
17 - spells
60 - total - basic these are more or less the "must have" to get to AC 72+! instead of monk level and WIS maxed you could also go for Drakkas Chain and max DEX - but this way you need more or less all optionals to get to AC 72!
01 - dodge
03 - crows nest (1 rogue level needed)
05 - barkskin (natural) cast from level 12 druid in your party
07 - tensers (04 generic) + 2D4 DEX
04 - DG racial boni
----
20 - most important optional AC available (there are still a few more, I didn't mention)
80 - total - to get to 72 you can even skip some of the optionals to avoid a few things you don't like![/QUOTE]
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.
Basics:
q: what is the maximum AC you can reach in IWD2?
a: in IWD2 you can reach AC up to 80+!
q: why do I need such an high AC?
a: in HOF mode standard enemies have a BAB up to 52 - some bosses even more - and deals tons of damage per hit. With an AC of 72+ you will only get hit when rolling a 20!
q: are there other chances to get close to invincible to melee damage?
a: YES! - a good AC ~60 *and* MI, blink, blur and stoneskin will give you more or less the same protection! - even MI, blink, blur and stoneskin alone are quite powerfull if you recast MI when needed!
q: is one monk level and maxed WIS the only way to get up to 72?
a: NO! - but the easiest one - you could also use chain of drakkas and max DEX - but then you need more or less all other possibilities to increase AC!
[QUOTE=silverdragon72]
what do I need to get an AC 72+?
there are several combinations possible:
- at least one monk level
- a DG
- enough Wiz levels to get tensers
- enough Wiz level to get shield
- enough cleric levels to get divine shell
- a level 12 druid in your party
- maxed DEX and / or WIS (with spells and items)
- using several items giving natural armour boni
- potions increasing permanently WIS
- at least a level as cleric of Bane or a PAL level to get quest boni on WIS!
calculation:
10 - Basic AC
07 - DEX (24 with cats grace or slippers - up to 30 with tensers -> 10)
13 - WIS (with quests, potions, every god ring and maxed out stats 36+)
----
30 - basic & stat boni - 33 to 35 possible
05 - expertise (13 INT needed)
----
05 - feats
03 - sunfire talisman
05 - bands (from wandering village)
----
08 - items
07 - shield (armor)
06 - divine shell (deflection)
04 - haste (generic)
----
17 - spells
60 - total - basic these are more or less the "must have" to get to AC 72+! instead of monk level and WIS maxed you could also go for Drakkas Chain and max DEX - but this way you need more or less all optionals to get to AC 72!
01 - dodge
03 - crows nest (1 rogue level needed)
05 - barkskin (natural) cast from level 12 druid in your party
07 - tensers (04 generic) + 2D4 DEX
04 - DG racial boni
----
20 - most important optional AC available (there are still a few more, I didn't mention)
80 - total - to get to 72 you can even skip some of the optionals to avoid a few things you don't like![/QUOTE]
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silverdragon72
- Posts: 850
- Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:53 am
- Contact:
4. Races
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I. basics on races:
most important race boni:
- SR (spell resistance)
- extra stat points (needed for some powerfull MC builds)
- racial boni
- the right favored class for the planned build
level mali:
ECL races are by far not that worse as they look like!
- ECL races start with more EXP - this way all races only need 1000 EXP to level 2! (EDIT: for DG you need to mod the game with Weidu to avoid the "bug" that you start with only 1000EXP!)
- ECL races lower your average party level -> this way the party gets more EXP!
- ECL races can reach level 30
sensitive to daylight: also not that big problem as most fights are inside and you can rest during day that you can fight the few difficult outside battles at night!
II. Powerfull races:
1. Drows
definetly the best race!
- SR
- great stat boni - but the +2 on CHA are useless for most drow-builds
- the "right" favored classes (wizard or cleric!)
- +2 boni on will-saves
- 3 times a day Faeri Fire (don't underestimate FF - cause really ever enemy in HOF is affected by this spell!)
2. Deep Gnomes
if you want to build an ultimate AC "decoy" - DG is best choice!
-> have a look at JUPP for the details - as I personally don't like DG decoys!
- SR
- racial AC boni
- +2 boni on saves
- 2 stat points less then humans but due to the -4 on CHA this isn't a big problem, +2 on WIS is great
- MI & blur are nice but only available once a day / battle!
III. races for special builds
1. Aasimar
due to the +2 CHA & +2 WIS...
...best choice for a Pal 2 - Sorc X
very good choice for cleric / paladin / monk MC-builds
- +5 elemental resistance (besides fire)
- sunscorch is also nice (great against undead if you use the targos mod and for finishing trolls!)
as the PAL level allows you to use the holy avenger, you won't get problems with the missing SR!
2. Tiefling
with +2 INT and +2 DEX
good choice for MC/DC builds with rogue and/or wiz as a major class - but for most "good" tiefling MC-builds a drow is the better choice!
3. Human
If you have build that needs an extra feat or an extra SP per level - humans are a good choice.
EDIT: If you can't use a better race for a special build to avoid the EXP-penalty - humans are best choice of all races with no fix favored class!
Especially for the bard 9 - druid 21 build (recommended later - 7.5.) - humans are best choice!
4. Half-ORC
if you go for a barb X- fighter 4 (what is not recommended!!!) a half-orc isn't a bad choice due the +2 STR boni!
IV. Roleplaying (~weak) races
...all races not mentioned above!
.
.
I. basics on races:
most important race boni:
- SR (spell resistance)
- extra stat points (needed for some powerfull MC builds)
- racial boni
- the right favored class for the planned build
level mali:
ECL races are by far not that worse as they look like!
- ECL races start with more EXP - this way all races only need 1000 EXP to level 2! (EDIT: for DG you need to mod the game with Weidu to avoid the "bug" that you start with only 1000EXP!)
- ECL races lower your average party level -> this way the party gets more EXP!
- ECL races can reach level 30
sensitive to daylight: also not that big problem as most fights are inside and you can rest during day that you can fight the few difficult outside battles at night!
II. Powerfull races:
1. Drows
definetly the best race!
- SR
- great stat boni - but the +2 on CHA are useless for most drow-builds
- the "right" favored classes (wizard or cleric!)
- +2 boni on will-saves
- 3 times a day Faeri Fire (don't underestimate FF - cause really ever enemy in HOF is affected by this spell!)
2. Deep Gnomes
if you want to build an ultimate AC "decoy" - DG is best choice!
-> have a look at JUPP for the details - as I personally don't like DG decoys!
- SR
- racial AC boni
- +2 boni on saves
- 2 stat points less then humans but due to the -4 on CHA this isn't a big problem, +2 on WIS is great
- MI & blur are nice but only available once a day / battle!
III. races for special builds
1. Aasimar
due to the +2 CHA & +2 WIS...
...best choice for a Pal 2 - Sorc X
very good choice for cleric / paladin / monk MC-builds
- +5 elemental resistance (besides fire)
- sunscorch is also nice (great against undead if you use the targos mod and for finishing trolls!)
as the PAL level allows you to use the holy avenger, you won't get problems with the missing SR!
2. Tiefling
with +2 INT and +2 DEX
good choice for MC/DC builds with rogue and/or wiz as a major class - but for most "good" tiefling MC-builds a drow is the better choice!
3. Human
If you have build that needs an extra feat or an extra SP per level - humans are a good choice.
EDIT: If you can't use a better race for a special build to avoid the EXP-penalty - humans are best choice of all races with no fix favored class!
Especially for the bard 9 - druid 21 build (recommended later - 7.5.) - humans are best choice!
4. Half-ORC
if you go for a barb X- fighter 4 (what is not recommended!!!) a half-orc isn't a bad choice due the +2 STR boni!
IV. Roleplaying (~weak) races
...all races not mentioned above!
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silverdragon72
- Posts: 850
- Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:53 am
- Contact:
5. Classes
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I. Basics
you should differ between following class concepts:
SC - single class build: pure build of just one class
DC - dual class: a build with 2 major classes and eventually mix-in classes
MC - multi class build: normally a build with one major class and several mix-in classes
major class: the dominant class in a build (in most cases with 15 to 25 levels)
mix-in class: only very few levels (1 to 5) of a class
II. melee classes:
Fighter:
Great mix-in class with 2 or 4 levels - especially for the bonus feats on the 1st, 2nd & 4th level and weapon specilization on level 4. More then 4 levels are wasted!
Rogue:
Great mix-in class, best with 3 levels - should always be taken as 1st level to maximes skill points! - Evasion is great, also the 2D6 sneak attack you get with level 3!
The rogue is also a good decision for a dual class build (with 10 or 11 levels then to get access to the special feats) in combination with a wizard!
More rogue levels are not recommended as sneak attack isn't that powerfull in IWD2 (especially not in HOF with all enemies having an insane amount of HP) and the rogue skills aren't really needed at any point of the game!
Monk:
Great mix-in class best with 2 or 3 levels - for all AC70+ builds one monk level is recommended! Besides the WIS boni, evasion and increased movement rate are just great!
If you take more then 3 monk level you should go all way up to at least 20!
Monks one of the best SC builds - but there much more powerfull MC-builds available!
Barb:
Good mix-in class, best with 2 or 3 levels - especially if you can't use monk as mix-in class, you can get speed this way! The other special abilites you get up to level 3 are also good but also not that great!
As DC Barb is a "no no"
Like the monk, the barb is one of the better SC builds, but then take as many Barb levels as possible (as DR increases up to level 29!)
III. Hybrid classes
Ranger:
worst class in IWD2
as a mix-in class, nothing you can't get better with 2 Fighter levels!
If you already have a fighter as mix-in and need even more feats (but don't know for what ) you could think about taking 1 to 3 ranger levels!
as all other hybrids besides bard, the ranger is wasted as a DC!
Also as SC a ranger is weak as the ranger spell selection is even worse the the PAL spells!
Paladin:
great mix-in class (with 1 or better 2 levels! CHA-boni to saves is great for each Sorc, resistance to fear (Aura of courage) is also great for pal & party!
2 Pal levels are a must for each Sorc, for cleric-builds Pals are also a great mix-in, espesially as your cleric gets the holy avenger and the PAL quest this way!
Pal levels beyond the 3rd are just wasted!
Bard:
Versatile class, due to songs & spells, bards have no optimum level!
Not the best choice as mix-in, as the bard needs at least a few levels (5+) to get good songs (Tymora) and defensive buffs like MI, blur & blink!
Bard is a great DC - best number of levels depends on the 2nd class!
As SC the bard is ok - but better use him as DC or at least with some mix-ins!
IV. Casters
Sorc:
Most powerfull caster-class in IWD2, therefore best as a major class (20 to 28 levels) - best combined with 2 pal levels! For this reason the sorc is not a SC-build!
mixing-in additional classes besides Pal is optional as the Sorc doesn't get many new spells at high level and the uncapped damage spells aren't that usefull in HOF - but I would go for at least level 25!
Wizard:
Great secondary caster and back-up for a sorc!
Great mix-in (with 5 levels) for defensive self-buffs (MI, blur & blink) and an extra feat! But be warned mixing in these 5 levels result in most MC-builds in an EXP-penalty - but if taken late the 5th level is worth it!
Great as a major class (20 levels) for a melee MC-build ( -> spellsword!) These builds are the most powerfull melee builds in IWD2!
Not recommended as SC, as the wiz's strength are MC-builds and Wiz don't get much after reaching level 20!
In most cases a not specilized wiz is the best choice as you keep the flexibility to cast spells from all schools - even if you loose one spell per level this way! This isn't that big problem as long as you use wiz as a major class for spellsword MC-builds (as you will go for melee most of the time with these builds!)
Exception: 5 wiz level as mix-in - as you will just use MI, blur and blink choose a school that allows these spells (as the additional L2 & L3 spell is quite usefull in this case!)
cleric:
Used as major class the cleric is *the* backbone of great MC-builds besides the wizard!
Beyond level 20 the cleric don't gains much, so 10 levels are free for mix-ins!
Like the wizard, cleric MC-builds could get the most powerfull melee fighters in IWD2 while keeping there full divine casting potential!
Cleric as a mix-in doesn't make that much sense, cause the low level cleric spells are just to weak (or their power depends on caster level). Only one DM level - if you want the stat increase from the dreadmaster quest - could make sense (but it's not worth it from my point of view)
A SC cleric is also quite powerfull, but with 20 to 25 levels you have already more then you need!
Btw. 15 to 17 cleric levels (but for a support divine caster only!) could also be very handy, as the level 9 cleric spells are quite useless - and if you don't use the offensive divine spells (allowing saves), that aren't that great anyway!
Druid:
Druid is also a versatile class, that depends much on how you build/use it!
Without the Weidu mod shapeshifting is just to weak, especially in HOF - if modded shapeshifting is extremly powerfull - to powerfull from my point of view for the normal game!
As a caster the druid has the worst spell selection of all pure casters - this gets a little bit better when modded - but the really important HOF spells were missing!
If you want some ultimate AC PCs, a level 12 druid is recommended (as you don't get generic armor +5 that easy from anywhere else!), if you do use the shapeshift mod - level 21 is quite a good level - as you get the very cool and even more powerfull elemental half-dragon then!
If you don't want to use the mod nor use AC 72+ PCs the druid is quite useless from a powergaming point of view!
.
.
I. Basics
you should differ between following class concepts:
SC - single class build: pure build of just one class
DC - dual class: a build with 2 major classes and eventually mix-in classes
MC - multi class build: normally a build with one major class and several mix-in classes
major class: the dominant class in a build (in most cases with 15 to 25 levels)
mix-in class: only very few levels (1 to 5) of a class
II. melee classes:
Fighter:
Great mix-in class with 2 or 4 levels - especially for the bonus feats on the 1st, 2nd & 4th level and weapon specilization on level 4. More then 4 levels are wasted!
Rogue:
Great mix-in class, best with 3 levels - should always be taken as 1st level to maximes skill points! - Evasion is great, also the 2D6 sneak attack you get with level 3!
The rogue is also a good decision for a dual class build (with 10 or 11 levels then to get access to the special feats) in combination with a wizard!
More rogue levels are not recommended as sneak attack isn't that powerfull in IWD2 (especially not in HOF with all enemies having an insane amount of HP) and the rogue skills aren't really needed at any point of the game!
Monk:
Great mix-in class best with 2 or 3 levels - for all AC70+ builds one monk level is recommended! Besides the WIS boni, evasion and increased movement rate are just great!
If you take more then 3 monk level you should go all way up to at least 20!
Monks one of the best SC builds - but there much more powerfull MC-builds available!
Barb:
Good mix-in class, best with 2 or 3 levels - especially if you can't use monk as mix-in class, you can get speed this way! The other special abilites you get up to level 3 are also good but also not that great!
As DC Barb is a "no no"
Like the monk, the barb is one of the better SC builds, but then take as many Barb levels as possible (as DR increases up to level 29!)
III. Hybrid classes
Ranger:
worst class in IWD2
as a mix-in class, nothing you can't get better with 2 Fighter levels!
If you already have a fighter as mix-in and need even more feats (but don't know for what
) you could think about taking 1 to 3 ranger levels!as all other hybrids besides bard, the ranger is wasted as a DC!
Also as SC a ranger is weak as the ranger spell selection is even worse the the PAL spells!
Paladin:
great mix-in class (with 1 or better 2 levels! CHA-boni to saves is great for each Sorc, resistance to fear (Aura of courage) is also great for pal & party!
2 Pal levels are a must for each Sorc, for cleric-builds Pals are also a great mix-in, espesially as your cleric gets the holy avenger and the PAL quest this way!
Pal levels beyond the 3rd are just wasted!
Bard:
Versatile class, due to songs & spells, bards have no optimum level!
Not the best choice as mix-in, as the bard needs at least a few levels (5+) to get good songs (Tymora) and defensive buffs like MI, blur & blink!
Bard is a great DC - best number of levels depends on the 2nd class!
As SC the bard is ok - but better use him as DC or at least with some mix-ins!
IV. Casters
Sorc:
Most powerfull caster-class in IWD2, therefore best as a major class (20 to 28 levels) - best combined with 2 pal levels! For this reason the sorc is not a SC-build!
mixing-in additional classes besides Pal is optional as the Sorc doesn't get many new spells at high level and the uncapped damage spells aren't that usefull in HOF - but I would go for at least level 25!
Wizard:
Great secondary caster and back-up for a sorc!
Great mix-in (with 5 levels) for defensive self-buffs (MI, blur & blink) and an extra feat! But be warned mixing in these 5 levels result in most MC-builds in an EXP-penalty - but if taken late the 5th level is worth it!
Great as a major class (20 levels) for a melee MC-build ( -> spellsword!) These builds are the most powerfull melee builds in IWD2!
Not recommended as SC, as the wiz's strength are MC-builds and Wiz don't get much after reaching level 20!
In most cases a not specilized wiz is the best choice as you keep the flexibility to cast spells from all schools - even if you loose one spell per level this way! This isn't that big problem as long as you use wiz as a major class for spellsword MC-builds (as you will go for melee most of the time with these builds!)
Exception: 5 wiz level as mix-in - as you will just use MI, blur and blink choose a school that allows these spells (as the additional L2 & L3 spell is quite usefull in this case!)
cleric:
Used as major class the cleric is *the* backbone of great MC-builds besides the wizard!
Beyond level 20 the cleric don't gains much, so 10 levels are free for mix-ins!
Like the wizard, cleric MC-builds could get the most powerfull melee fighters in IWD2 while keeping there full divine casting potential!
Cleric as a mix-in doesn't make that much sense, cause the low level cleric spells are just to weak (or their power depends on caster level). Only one DM level - if you want the stat increase from the dreadmaster quest - could make sense (but it's not worth it from my point of view)
A SC cleric is also quite powerfull, but with 20 to 25 levels you have already more then you need!
Btw. 15 to 17 cleric levels (but for a support divine caster only!) could also be very handy, as the level 9 cleric spells are quite useless - and if you don't use the offensive divine spells (allowing saves), that aren't that great anyway!
Druid:
Druid is also a versatile class, that depends much on how you build/use it!
Without the Weidu mod shapeshifting is just to weak, especially in HOF - if modded shapeshifting is extremly powerfull - to powerfull from my point of view for the normal game!
As a caster the druid has the worst spell selection of all pure casters - this gets a little bit better when modded - but the really important HOF spells were missing!
If you want some ultimate AC PCs, a level 12 druid is recommended (as you don't get generic armor +5 that easy from anywhere else!), if you do use the shapeshift mod - level 21 is quite a good level - as you get the very cool and even more powerfull elemental half-dragon then!
If you don't want to use the mod nor use AC 72+ PCs the druid is quite useless from a powergaming point of view!
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silverdragon72
- Posts: 850
- Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:53 am
- Contact:
6. Basic MC concepts
.
I. Major class
as already stated above most good MC-builds consists of one major class and several mix-in classes!
The best major classes are cleric and wizard:
1. These classes doesn't gain much after level 17 to 20!
2. The most powerfull melee builds need caster levels as the best buffs available are self-buffs!
3. wizard could use the synergies from INT - for expertise feat, or for tons of SP in combination with rogue levels!
4. The clerics high WIS is great for the monk WIS-boni and if they have gigh CHA for turning undead you can use this synergy with paladins!
5. cleric & wizard are the favored classes for drows - the most powerfull race in game!
II. mix-in classes
with (15/)17 to 20 levels of a major class there are 10 to 13 levels left for mix-ins!
the most powerfull mix-ins classes are best at level 3 +/-1
rogue - paladin - monk - barb - fighter - (wizard) - (ranger)
so for 10 levels a 3 - 4 - 3 or a 3 - 3 - 2 - 2 are good combinations - and you can avoid any EXP-penalty this way!
and as nice side-effect you get best save boni for the 1st 3 levels!
III. mix-in classes for major class wizard:
AC60+ possible
fighter 2 or 4 -> bonus feats, w.-spec. (L4), BAB, HP, free weapon & armor feats 4-1-1 saves on level 4!
rogue 3 -> evasion, 2D6 sneak, access to sneak feats, SP, 1-3-1 saves (L3)
barb 2 or 3 -> speed, uncanny dodge, rage, HP, BAB, 3-1-1 saves (L3)!
optional: ranger 2 or 3 -> gives 2 extra feats - but all other mix-ins are better and I wouldn't skip 3 wizard levels therefore! If you use Draccas or Draccas fury for this build (medium armor) the ranger levels are useless as the free feats will only work with no or light armor only!
monk and pal aren't usefull mix-ins as you don't have the stat points for WIS or CHA!
this way you get a rogue 3 - fighter 4 - barb 3 - wizard 20
IV. mix-in classes for major class cleric v.1:
this is a lawful neutral build with AC 60+ (therefore MI!) - if you want to use a dreadmaster for their special quest!
fighter 2 or 4 -> bonus feats, w.-spec. (L4), BAB, HP, free weapon & armor feats 4-1-1 saves on level 4!
rogue 3 -> evasion, 2D6 sneak, access to sneak feats, SP, 1-3-1 saves (L3)
monk 2 or 3 -> speed, WIS-boni, 4-4-4 saves (L3)!
wizard 5(!) -> to get all defensive self-buffs from L1 to L3 (a few MI-spells are quite important!) and the bonus feat on L5! take the last wiz level as late as possible to reduce the EXP-penalty!
pal can't be used as mix-in as you need to be neutral!
this way you get a rogue 3 - fighter 4 - monk 3 - cleric 15 - wizard 5
...a rogue 3 - fighter 2 - monk 3 - cleric 17 - wizard 5
...or a rogue 3 - fighter 4 - monk 3 - cleric 20
-> 15 cleric are enough for a melee heavy support caster (as L9 cleric spells are useless!)
V. mix-in classes for major class cleric v.2:
this is a lawful good build - for a main cleric caster with ~AC70
Pal 2 -> CHA-boni to saves, immunity to fear, free weapon & armor feats, 3-0-0 saves (L2) - holy avenger & and HA quest boni
Monk 3 -> speed, WIS-boni, 4-4-4 saves (L3)!
optional: fighter 2 -> bonus feats, w.-spec. (L4), BAB, HP, free weapon & armor feats 3-0-0 saves on level 2.
this way you get a paldin 2 - monk 3 - cleric 25
...a paldin 2 - monk 3 - fighter 2 - cleric 23
would use ilmater for all - this way you don't need to take all levels in a row!
...under construction!
.
.
I. Major class
as already stated above most good MC-builds consists of one major class and several mix-in classes!
The best major classes are cleric and wizard:
1. These classes doesn't gain much after level 17 to 20!
2. The most powerfull melee builds need caster levels as the best buffs available are self-buffs!
3. wizard could use the synergies from INT - for expertise feat, or for tons of SP in combination with rogue levels!
4. The clerics high WIS is great for the monk WIS-boni and if they have gigh CHA for turning undead you can use this synergy with paladins!
5. cleric & wizard are the favored classes for drows - the most powerfull race in game!
II. mix-in classes
with (15/)17 to 20 levels of a major class there are 10 to 13 levels left for mix-ins!
the most powerfull mix-ins classes are best at level 3 +/-1
rogue - paladin - monk - barb - fighter - (wizard) - (ranger)
so for 10 levels a 3 - 4 - 3 or a 3 - 3 - 2 - 2 are good combinations - and you can avoid any EXP-penalty this way!
and as nice side-effect you get best save boni for the 1st 3 levels!
III. mix-in classes for major class wizard:
AC60+ possible
fighter 2 or 4 -> bonus feats, w.-spec. (L4), BAB, HP, free weapon & armor feats 4-1-1 saves on level 4!
rogue 3 -> evasion, 2D6 sneak, access to sneak feats, SP, 1-3-1 saves (L3)
barb 2 or 3 -> speed, uncanny dodge, rage, HP, BAB, 3-1-1 saves (L3)!
optional: ranger 2 or 3 -> gives 2 extra feats - but all other mix-ins are better and I wouldn't skip 3 wizard levels therefore! If you use Draccas or Draccas fury for this build (medium armor) the ranger levels are useless as the free feats will only work with no or light armor only!
monk and pal aren't usefull mix-ins as you don't have the stat points for WIS or CHA!
this way you get a rogue 3 - fighter 4 - barb 3 - wizard 20
IV. mix-in classes for major class cleric v.1:
this is a lawful neutral build with AC 60+ (therefore MI!) - if you want to use a dreadmaster for their special quest!
fighter 2 or 4 -> bonus feats, w.-spec. (L4), BAB, HP, free weapon & armor feats 4-1-1 saves on level 4!
rogue 3 -> evasion, 2D6 sneak, access to sneak feats, SP, 1-3-1 saves (L3)
monk 2 or 3 -> speed, WIS-boni, 4-4-4 saves (L3)!
wizard 5(!) -> to get all defensive self-buffs from L1 to L3 (a few MI-spells are quite important!) and the bonus feat on L5! take the last wiz level as late as possible to reduce the EXP-penalty!
pal can't be used as mix-in as you need to be neutral!
this way you get a rogue 3 - fighter 4 - monk 3 - cleric 15 - wizard 5
...a rogue 3 - fighter 2 - monk 3 - cleric 17 - wizard 5
...or a rogue 3 - fighter 4 - monk 3 - cleric 20
-> 15 cleric are enough for a melee heavy support caster (as L9 cleric spells are useless!)
V. mix-in classes for major class cleric v.2:
this is a lawful good build - for a main cleric caster with ~AC70
Pal 2 -> CHA-boni to saves, immunity to fear, free weapon & armor feats, 3-0-0 saves (L2) - holy avenger & and HA quest boni
Monk 3 -> speed, WIS-boni, 4-4-4 saves (L3)!
optional: fighter 2 -> bonus feats, w.-spec. (L4), BAB, HP, free weapon & armor feats 3-0-0 saves on level 2.
this way you get a paldin 2 - monk 3 - cleric 25
...a paldin 2 - monk 3 - fighter 2 - cleric 23
would use ilmater for all - this way you don't need to take all levels in a row!
...under construction!
.
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silverdragon72
- Posts: 850
- Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:53 am
- Contact:
7. powerfull MC-builds - party concept
.
I. party concept:
what you really need:
- at least 1 sorcerer as main arcane caster (just to powerfull to skip him)
- at least 2 HOF melee capable PCs
- at least one divine caster
what you need to support an ultimate AC:
- at least 12 druid levels
nice to have:
- a secondary arcane caster that levels up quite fast early in the game(cause the sorc build needs some time to get the higher level spells)
- a secondary divine caster
- at least 5 bard levels (for tymoras melody)
II. combinations and synergies
More details on these builds you will find under 7.1. to 7.6.!
I. for the main arcane caster there is no real choice to a pal 2 sorc X! ( -> 7.4.)
II. at least 2 HOF capable melee fighter: best melee fighters are build around major class wizard or cleric - so I would suggest to build one with major class wiz and the other with major class cleric, this way you get a secondary arcane & divine caster for free! ( -> 7.1. & 7.2.)
III. main divine caster: if you add a few monk and pal levels you can increase AC up to 70+, be immune to fear and quite fast, use the holy avenger and get free SR this way. This together results that your cleric is not just a great divine caster and a good tank in normal game, in HOF he can perform in a defensive melee position even better then the 2 melee builds above! ( -> 7.3.)
IV. Best solution to get both, the bard and druid levels is a dual build: bard 9 druid 21 (if you don't use the weimar mod for shapeshifting) you can also add more bard levels (at least L11 in this case) ( -> 7.5.)
V. what the party still misses is a fast developping arcane caster (as the sorc build is quite slow) and some rogue/skill capabilities (even if you don't really need the rogue skills in IWD2 - from my point of view a party would be incomplete without at least some!) therefore I would suggest a rogue 10 - wizard 20 - starting with just 1 rogue level for SP and then focussing on wiz until L20! This build is quite powerfull in the early and in the late game and can stand melee ven in HOF! ( -> 7.6.)
III. what you get this way!
6 HOF capable melee fighter:
each build can stand melee in HOF!
- the sorc buffed with MI, blink, blur, tensers and M-sword or BBD!
- both melee builds and the main cleric due to high AC and buffs
- bard - druid shapeshifted as elemental half-dragon (mod) is a melee killer!
- the rogue - wizard buffed with MI, blink, blur, tensers and M-sword or BBD and sneak attacks!
5 or 6 PCs with SR:
even with not all PCs being drow or DG all can have SR!
- as both aasimar builds have a pal level they can use holy avenger and cera sumat (HOF)
- as shapeshift the elemental half-dragon has SR
- both drows have SR
- only the tiefling rogue - wiz doesn't have SR - but you could take a drow instead or give him some SR via spell
if you additional use SR from (stacking) spells on your party (GS of Lathander or better Holy Aura), they are quite immune to any magic attacks!
3 full divine caster:
- 2 clerics (L25 & L15 or L17)
- 1 druid (L21)
3 full and 2 partly arcane caster:
- sorc (L 28)
- wiz (2x L20 - 1x L5)
- bard (L9)
IV. Party performance:
[QUOTE=silverdragon72].
the builds described under 7.1. to 7.6. are my party set up.
As house rule I always reload when a PC dies, so I never use spells like Raise Dead or Resurrection! - I played the normal mode on insane - fights were I need to reload in the normal game:
- targos palisade (due to using the ultra hard undead targos mod): 4 attempts
- toraks camp (due to using the ultra hard undead targos mod): 3 attempts
- BS: a few reloads caused by not killing enemy in time
- last chamber of 8 chambers quest: 2 attempts
- 4 iron golems at monastry grave: 3 attempts
- guardian: 3 attempts
in most cases the death of only one party member caused a new attempt. The whole party would have been erased in only one case (Targos Palisade in normal game on insane), but I used "powerword reload" before this happened!
after the guardian I finished the game without anyone dying in battle!
no one died in HOF so far (chapter 3 right now)
so I think you could consider this as a *very* powerfull party![/QUOTE]
.
.
I. party concept:
what you really need:
- at least 1 sorcerer as main arcane caster (just to powerfull to skip him)
- at least 2 HOF melee capable PCs
- at least one divine caster
what you need to support an ultimate AC:
- at least 12 druid levels
nice to have:
- a secondary arcane caster that levels up quite fast early in the game(cause the sorc build needs some time to get the higher level spells)
- a secondary divine caster
- at least 5 bard levels (for tymoras melody)
II. combinations and synergies
More details on these builds you will find under 7.1. to 7.6.!
I. for the main arcane caster there is no real choice to a pal 2 sorc X! ( -> 7.4.)
II. at least 2 HOF capable melee fighter: best melee fighters are build around major class wizard or cleric - so I would suggest to build one with major class wiz and the other with major class cleric, this way you get a secondary arcane & divine caster for free! ( -> 7.1. & 7.2.)
III. main divine caster: if you add a few monk and pal levels you can increase AC up to 70+, be immune to fear and quite fast, use the holy avenger and get free SR this way. This together results that your cleric is not just a great divine caster and a good tank in normal game, in HOF he can perform in a defensive melee position even better then the 2 melee builds above! ( -> 7.3.)
IV. Best solution to get both, the bard and druid levels is a dual build: bard 9 druid 21 (if you don't use the weimar mod for shapeshifting) you can also add more bard levels (at least L11 in this case) ( -> 7.5.)
V. what the party still misses is a fast developping arcane caster (as the sorc build is quite slow) and some rogue/skill capabilities (even if you don't really need the rogue skills in IWD2 - from my point of view a party would be incomplete without at least some!) therefore I would suggest a rogue 10 - wizard 20 - starting with just 1 rogue level for SP and then focussing on wiz until L20! This build is quite powerfull in the early and in the late game and can stand melee ven in HOF! ( -> 7.6.)
III. what you get this way!
6 HOF capable melee fighter:
each build can stand melee in HOF!
- the sorc buffed with MI, blink, blur, tensers and M-sword or BBD!
- both melee builds and the main cleric due to high AC and buffs
- bard - druid shapeshifted as elemental half-dragon (mod) is a melee killer!
- the rogue - wizard buffed with MI, blink, blur, tensers and M-sword or BBD and sneak attacks!
5 or 6 PCs with SR:
even with not all PCs being drow or DG all can have SR!
- as both aasimar builds have a pal level they can use holy avenger and cera sumat (HOF)
- as shapeshift the elemental half-dragon has SR
- both drows have SR
- only the tiefling rogue - wiz doesn't have SR - but you could take a drow instead or give him some SR via spell
if you additional use SR from (stacking) spells on your party (GS of Lathander or better Holy Aura), they are quite immune to any magic attacks!
3 full divine caster:
- 2 clerics (L25 & L15 or L17)
- 1 druid (L21)
3 full and 2 partly arcane caster:
- sorc (L 28)
- wiz (2x L20 - 1x L5)
- bard (L9)
IV. Party performance:
[QUOTE=silverdragon72].
the builds described under 7.1. to 7.6. are my party set up.
As house rule I always reload when a PC dies, so I never use spells like Raise Dead or Resurrection! - I played the normal mode on insane - fights were I need to reload in the normal game:
- targos palisade (due to using the ultra hard undead targos mod): 4 attempts
- toraks camp (due to using the ultra hard undead targos mod): 3 attempts
- BS: a few reloads caused by not killing enemy in time
- last chamber of 8 chambers quest: 2 attempts
- 4 iron golems at monastry grave: 3 attempts
- guardian: 3 attempts
in most cases the death of only one party member caused a new attempt. The whole party would have been erased in only one case (Targos Palisade in normal game on insane), but I used "powerword reload" before this happened!
after the guardian I finished the game without anyone dying in battle!
no one died in HOF so far (chapter 3 right now)
so I think you could consider this as a *very* powerfull party![/QUOTE]
.
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silverdragon72
- Posts: 850
- Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:53 am
- Contact:
7.1. powerfull MC-builds - PC1 - spellsword
.
1st PC:
role: melee-fighter - spellsword - support arcane caster
race: drow male
alignement: chaotic good
stats: STR 18 - DEX 20 - CON 16 - INT 17 - WIS 4 - CHA 5
comment on stats: increase INT early (to 19 or 20) and then max. STR - you don't need WIS that much cause of your SR and +2 will saves (drow) - later you get better will saves from the wiz-levels and you can use protection spells!
alternative: you can start with 18 or even 20 INT to get even more SP on level 1 (but you won't need them) and lower CON for this (but I would increase CON to 16 later then!). Eitherway main focus should be STR for this build!
major class: wizard 20
mix-ins: rogue 3 - fighter 4 - barb 3
order of levels:
1st rogue
after 5th: rogue 2 - fighter 2 - barb 1
after 25th: rogue 2 - fighter 2 - barb 1 - wizard 20
final: rogue 3 - fighter 4 - barb 3 - wizard 20
comment on levelling: I stopped levelling at several points especially after:
rogue 3 - fighter 2 - barb 2 or rogue 3 - fighter 4 - barb 3
- then I stopped levelling until I had enough EXP to take 5 wiz levels in one step
- as the extra wiz levels beyond 5 won't increase the power that much - I waited until he had enough EXP to get tensers and then take the wiz levels!
most important spells: all defensive & stat buffs
in general: spells without a save - as you don't have that high INT nor GSF!
most important feats: imp. critcal, EW:BS (using some of weimars mod BS), power attack, cleave, ambidex, 2-WF, dirty tricks
skills: open lock & dis. dev., concentration - all maxed + hide & move silent as you have free SP
general comments: backbone of the party in normal game - no problems to master battle-square at level 9! does 50% of the kills in the normal game! Due to the defensive arcane buffs very capable in melee-combat even in HOF!
how to play: very versatile build that is great for several tasks:
- very fast movement (barb levels)
- can hide & sneak right away from the start
- when getting the arcane defensive buffs he is close to invincible
-> he's is on scouting duty as a duo with PC 2 or later as a trio with PC 6!
-> together with PC 2 he takes out the most dangerous enemy threat and is
a) fast enough to escape or
b) just stays in the middle of the enemy crowd. Protected through SR, evasion, great reflexes and MI your arcane casters can throw their FBs and DBFB on them without any risk in normal game!
In HOF he has enough arcane self-buffs (MI) to survive in an enemy crowd for quite some time (especially if he keeps close to PC 2 who can cast heal on him if needed)
-> in HOF he has all arcane spells available, but due to the missing SF & GSF feats and "low" INT boni he should focus on (self-) buffs, support spells or offensive spells that don't allow/need a save!
But casting is definetly only his secondary task, his strength is his great melee potential but he is good for buffing the party before battle, but once the battle begins he should only cast self-buffs as needed!
Be aware that if you cast tensers once you can't cast any other spells for several rounds - so cast MI just before tensers and make sure that you won't need another MI for the rest of the battle (as tensers has a duration up to 20 rounds and you can't cancel spells in IWD2!) - or keep close to PC 2 that you can get healed if necessary!
this also means you have to cast M-sword or BBD before tensers!
spell selection:
SL 1: some MM, C.orb & prot. petrification (last one only if needed) there are no must / good spells on L1 for this build!
SL 2: 1 or 2 blur and the rest MI (the stat increasing buffs on L2 should be supported by other casters!)
SL 3: 2 blink, 1 haste & prot. from fire (for party support) are the most important spells
SL 4: several Fire shields (red&blue) 1 malison and/or emotion:despair (for 1st & 2nd combat round if needed) 1 Imp. Inv. (optional)
SL 5: 1 summon spell (optional) rest prot. electricy & acid for party support
SL 6: 2 Tensers, trollish fortitude (optional) or whatever you like
SL 7: 2 M-sword, 2 seven eyes
SL 8: mind blank (party support) if you use weidu: iron body
SL 9: BBD, exec, eyes and/or aegis
comment on spell selection: not many offensive arcane spells, as these are better casted by PC 4 or 6! The focus is on self-buffs and party support spells! This way your more powerfull casters (due to higher boni and casting feats) don't need them!
.
.
1st PC:
role: melee-fighter - spellsword - support arcane caster
race: drow male
alignement: chaotic good
stats: STR 18 - DEX 20 - CON 16 - INT 17 - WIS 4 - CHA 5
comment on stats: increase INT early (to 19 or 20) and then max. STR - you don't need WIS that much cause of your SR and +2 will saves (drow) - later you get better will saves from the wiz-levels and you can use protection spells!
alternative: you can start with 18 or even 20 INT to get even more SP on level 1 (but you won't need them) and lower CON for this (but I would increase CON to 16 later then!). Eitherway main focus should be STR for this build!
major class: wizard 20
mix-ins: rogue 3 - fighter 4 - barb 3
order of levels:
1st rogue
after 5th: rogue 2 - fighter 2 - barb 1
after 25th: rogue 2 - fighter 2 - barb 1 - wizard 20
final: rogue 3 - fighter 4 - barb 3 - wizard 20
comment on levelling: I stopped levelling at several points especially after:
rogue 3 - fighter 2 - barb 2 or rogue 3 - fighter 4 - barb 3
- then I stopped levelling until I had enough EXP to take 5 wiz levels in one step
- as the extra wiz levels beyond 5 won't increase the power that much - I waited until he had enough EXP to get tensers and then take the wiz levels!
most important spells: all defensive & stat buffs
in general: spells without a save - as you don't have that high INT nor GSF!
most important feats: imp. critcal, EW:BS (using some of weimars mod BS), power attack, cleave, ambidex, 2-WF, dirty tricks
skills: open lock & dis. dev., concentration - all maxed + hide & move silent as you have free SP
general comments: backbone of the party in normal game - no problems to master battle-square at level 9! does 50% of the kills in the normal game! Due to the defensive arcane buffs very capable in melee-combat even in HOF!
how to play: very versatile build that is great for several tasks:
- very fast movement (barb levels)
- can hide & sneak right away from the start
- when getting the arcane defensive buffs he is close to invincible
-> he's is on scouting duty as a duo with PC 2 or later as a trio with PC 6!
-> together with PC 2 he takes out the most dangerous enemy threat and is
a) fast enough to escape or
b) just stays in the middle of the enemy crowd. Protected through SR, evasion, great reflexes and MI your arcane casters can throw their FBs and DBFB on them without any risk in normal game!
In HOF he has enough arcane self-buffs (MI) to survive in an enemy crowd for quite some time (especially if he keeps close to PC 2 who can cast heal on him if needed)
-> in HOF he has all arcane spells available, but due to the missing SF & GSF feats and "low" INT boni he should focus on (self-) buffs, support spells or offensive spells that don't allow/need a save!
But casting is definetly only his secondary task, his strength is his great melee potential but he is good for buffing the party before battle, but once the battle begins he should only cast self-buffs as needed!
Be aware that if you cast tensers once you can't cast any other spells for several rounds - so cast MI just before tensers and make sure that you won't need another MI for the rest of the battle (as tensers has a duration up to 20 rounds and you can't cancel spells in IWD2!) - or keep close to PC 2 that you can get healed if necessary!
this also means you have to cast M-sword or BBD before tensers!
spell selection:
SL 1: some MM, C.orb & prot. petrification (last one only if needed) there are no must / good spells on L1 for this build!
SL 2: 1 or 2 blur and the rest MI (the stat increasing buffs on L2 should be supported by other casters!)
SL 3: 2 blink, 1 haste & prot. from fire (for party support) are the most important spells
SL 4: several Fire shields (red&blue) 1 malison and/or emotion:despair (for 1st & 2nd combat round if needed) 1 Imp. Inv. (optional)
SL 5: 1 summon spell (optional) rest prot. electricy & acid for party support
SL 6: 2 Tensers, trollish fortitude (optional) or whatever you like
SL 7: 2 M-sword, 2 seven eyes
SL 8: mind blank (party support) if you use weidu: iron body
SL 9: BBD, exec, eyes and/or aegis
comment on spell selection: not many offensive arcane spells, as these are better casted by PC 4 or 6! The focus is on self-buffs and party support spells! This way your more powerfull casters (due to higher boni and casting feats) don't need them!
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silverdragon72
- Posts: 850
- Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:53 am
- Contact:
7.2. powerfull MC-builds - 2nd PC - battle cleric
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2nd PC:
role: melee-fighter - support divine caster
race: drow female
alignement: lawfull neutral (must!)
stats: STR 14 - DEX 20 - CON 14 - INT 14 - WIS 13 - CHA 5
comment on stats: increase WIS and DEX mainly for AC - but be aware that you get additional 4 WIS through the 2 dreadmaster quests and 5 through "every god" ring! This way you even could start with WIS 9 and not increase WIS to get access to L8 spells! This way you could max DEX and use weapon-finesse!
INT: you need 13 for combat exp. and casting level 3 arcane spells later - go for 14 INT for 1 additonal SP
major class: cleric of bane (dreadmaster) 15
mix-ins: rogue 3 - fighter 4 - monk 3 - wizard 5
order of levels:
1st rogue
after 5th: rogue 3 - fighter 2
after 20th: rogue 3 - fighter 2 - cleric 15 (dreadmaster)
final: rogue 3 - fighter 4 - monk 3 - cleric 15 - wizard 5
comments on build and levelling:
- 15 cleric levels are enough for this build, as L9 divine spells are useless and you still get access to the important L8 spells this way!
- taking the cleric levels give great opportunities to level-squat! Just take only the cleric levels you really need!
- you can also take the 3 monk levels earlier - but I would wait until you get the 2nd "every god" ring in HOF!
- take the 5th wiz level as late as possible to reduce the exp-hit!
most important spells:
- all defensive & stat buffs
- in general spells without save - as you don't have that high WIS nor GSF!
- heal !!!
most important feats: imp. critcal, EW:BS (using some of weimars mod BS), PA, cleave, ambidex, 2-WF, dirty tricks, comb. exp.
alternative: if you choose to focus on DEX instead of WIS you could also choose weapon-finesse!
skills: concentration & pick-pocket maxed + hide & move sil.
general comments: second melee fighter & secondary cleric of the party - does 25% of the kills in the normal game! - due to extremly high AC melee-capable in HOF
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2nd PC:
role: melee-fighter - support divine caster
race: drow female
alignement: lawfull neutral (must!)
stats: STR 14 - DEX 20 - CON 14 - INT 14 - WIS 13 - CHA 5
comment on stats: increase WIS and DEX mainly for AC - but be aware that you get additional 4 WIS through the 2 dreadmaster quests and 5 through "every god" ring! This way you even could start with WIS 9 and not increase WIS to get access to L8 spells! This way you could max DEX and use weapon-finesse!
INT: you need 13 for combat exp. and casting level 3 arcane spells later - go for 14 INT for 1 additonal SP
major class: cleric of bane (dreadmaster) 15
mix-ins: rogue 3 - fighter 4 - monk 3 - wizard 5
order of levels:
1st rogue
after 5th: rogue 3 - fighter 2
after 20th: rogue 3 - fighter 2 - cleric 15 (dreadmaster)
final: rogue 3 - fighter 4 - monk 3 - cleric 15 - wizard 5
comments on build and levelling:
- 15 cleric levels are enough for this build, as L9 divine spells are useless and you still get access to the important L8 spells this way!
- taking the cleric levels give great opportunities to level-squat! Just take only the cleric levels you really need!
- you can also take the 3 monk levels earlier - but I would wait until you get the 2nd "every god" ring in HOF!
- take the 5th wiz level as late as possible to reduce the exp-hit!
most important spells:
- all defensive & stat buffs
- in general spells without save - as you don't have that high WIS nor GSF!
- heal !!!
most important feats: imp. critcal, EW:BS (using some of weimars mod BS), PA, cleave, ambidex, 2-WF, dirty tricks, comb. exp.
alternative: if you choose to focus on DEX instead of WIS you could also choose weapon-finesse!
skills: concentration & pick-pocket maxed + hide & move sil.
general comments: second melee fighter & secondary cleric of the party - does 25% of the kills in the normal game! - due to extremly high AC melee-capable in HOF
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silverdragon72
- Posts: 850
- Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:53 am
- Contact:
7.3. powerfull MC-builds - 3rd PC - main divine caster
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3rd PC:
role: main cleric, secondary melee fighter
race: aasimar female (gender doesn't matter)
alignement: lawfull good (must)
stats: STR 10 - DEX 18 - CON 14 - INT 3 - WIS 20 - CHA 15
comment on stats: increase CHA (16) and then max WIS - you get additional 2 WIS 4 CHA through the paladin quests! CHA 20 gives you an additonal +5 boni on all saves and gives you a good chance to turn undead, at least normal game!
major class: cleric ilmater 25 (25 for breaking SR and special spells like dispel magic)
mix-ins: PAL 2 - monk 3 (both ilmater)
order of levels:
1st level paladin
after 22th: paladin 2 - cleric 20 (it's up to you when you take the 2nd pal level!)
after 25th: paladin 2 - monk 3 - cleric 20 (monk late & squatted - afterwards exp-hit!))
final: paladin 2 - monk 3 - cleric 25 (all ilmater)
comment on levels: you can also add 2 fighter levels or 1 ranger level very late if you need more feats. After taking the monk levels you can't use one of the miserable IWD2 shields anymore and cera sumat is one-handed - so 2-weapon fighting is once more the best choice! But be aware of the double EXP penalty afterwards!!!
most important spells: summon undead - heal - defensive buffs - offensive divine spells - excellent WIS-boni -therefore very hard to save against!
most important feats: GSF necro, combat feats as you like and/or a 2nd GSF, martial weapon great sword - would give her ambidex & 2-WF late as she can't use shields as a monk and CS is one-handed! For the other feats it's up to you if you go more a caster way with GSF in another school or more a melee way with e.g. dirty fighting, imp. critical and so on! (I would definetly prefer melee feats as there are not many offensive spells who would benefit from another school than necro, elemental feats are only good for the +5 resistance!)
skills: concentration maxed + spellcraft (10 for elemental feats if needed - but not recommended)
spell selection:
L1: 2-3x Bless - 2-4x Armor of faith - Doom or Bane | Prot. evil
L2: 2-3x DuhM - 2-4x Bull's Strength - Chant | Aid
L3: 2-4x Animate Dead - 1-2x Dispel Magic - 1-2x Prayer | Magic Circle vs. evil
L4: 2x holy power - 2x recitation - nx prot. lightn. - nx FoM - nx Death Ward - 1-2x dismissal | Emotion:hope
L5: 1-2 SR (for PC 5) - nx chaotic commands - 1x Insect Plague (against casters) | Feeblemind
L6: 2x Divine shell - 2-4x Heal - 1x Banishment | Harm
L7: 2-3x Greater shield of L. - 1-2x ISoM - 1-2x Greater Restoration - 1 Elemental Barrier - 1-2x Destruction (optional) - 1-2x Holy Word | Holy Word
L8: nx Holy Aura - nx Mass Heal - 1-2x Symbol of Hopelessness | Holy Aura
L9: Gate or Summon Monsters - as you like | Horrid Wilting
comment on spell selection:
1. on several levels the number of spells selected depend on how you divide these spells between your other 2 divine casters!
2. there aren't many offensive spells selected, but keep in mind that this build has a 10+X WIS boni -> almost no chance to save against - and even a fair chance to pass a fort save in HOF.
- L1 to L3 -> no offensive spells worth to mention
- L4 -> Dismissal - quite good as the caster level comes into play!
- L5 -> Insect plague seems to be not very reliable as the swarm sometimes flies to your own party after a few rounds! Flamestrike is only usefull to finish off trolls - slay living won't work well in HOF
- L6 -> 1 or 2 banishment are always handy - L6 contains the best early D&D divine spells: harm & blade barrier - but with the later editions these spells get quite useless! :-(
- L7 -> Destruction isn't bad in normal and would be nice in HOF, but due to the fort save so not that usefull in HOF (but a fair chance due to the high WIS-boni)
- L8 -> 1 or 2 Symbol of hopelessness to support your arcane casters, but mass heal & holy aura are to good not to have at least 2 or 3 each!
- L9 -> no offensive spells!
3. From the point (mid/late in HOF) your 2 secondary divine casters get access to L6 to L9 spells, you can give them more heal, mass heal (L9 for druids!) and other high level defensive buffs, and change this build to more offensive spells!
4. With the spell selection above you will only benefit from GSF necro!
general comments: main divine caster & secondary melee-fighter - due to extremly high AC potential, melee-capable in HOF. Also a very versatile build for differnt tasks: melee - summoning - buffing - healing - disabling
alternate race: female drow instead of aasimar
a female drow could also be a good choice for this PC but there a several reason to prefer an aasimar:
- +2 wiz
- as main divine caster she should get fast access to some cleric spells (ECL1 vs ECL2)
- as she will use holy avenger she don't need SR that much!
but from the EXP penalty the drow would be better choice if you decide to take the mix-in levels early! (not recommended)
Cause this is the main divine caster, this build should level up as fast as possible to get access to the powerfull divine spells!
You can add the the 2nd Pal level when needed and the monk levels later in mid of HOF - as they are all ilmater you don't need to take pal or monk levels in a row!
You can also completly skip the pal levels and min. CHA and therefore max STR (not recommended)!
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3rd PC:
role: main cleric, secondary melee fighter
race: aasimar female (gender doesn't matter)
alignement: lawfull good (must)
stats: STR 10 - DEX 18 - CON 14 - INT 3 - WIS 20 - CHA 15
comment on stats: increase CHA (16) and then max WIS - you get additional 2 WIS 4 CHA through the paladin quests! CHA 20 gives you an additonal +5 boni on all saves and gives you a good chance to turn undead, at least normal game!
major class: cleric ilmater 25 (25 for breaking SR and special spells like dispel magic)
mix-ins: PAL 2 - monk 3 (both ilmater)
order of levels:
1st level paladin
after 22th: paladin 2 - cleric 20 (it's up to you when you take the 2nd pal level!)
after 25th: paladin 2 - monk 3 - cleric 20 (monk late & squatted - afterwards exp-hit!))
final: paladin 2 - monk 3 - cleric 25 (all ilmater)
comment on levels: you can also add 2 fighter levels or 1 ranger level very late if you need more feats. After taking the monk levels you can't use one of the miserable IWD2 shields anymore and cera sumat is one-handed - so 2-weapon fighting is once more the best choice! But be aware of the double EXP penalty afterwards!!!
most important spells: summon undead - heal - defensive buffs - offensive divine spells - excellent WIS-boni -therefore very hard to save against!
most important feats: GSF necro, combat feats as you like and/or a 2nd GSF, martial weapon great sword - would give her ambidex & 2-WF late as she can't use shields as a monk and CS is one-handed! For the other feats it's up to you if you go more a caster way with GSF in another school or more a melee way with e.g. dirty fighting, imp. critical and so on! (I would definetly prefer melee feats as there are not many offensive spells who would benefit from another school than necro, elemental feats are only good for the +5 resistance!)
skills: concentration maxed + spellcraft (10 for elemental feats if needed - but not recommended)
spell selection:
L1: 2-3x Bless - 2-4x Armor of faith - Doom or Bane | Prot. evil
L2: 2-3x DuhM - 2-4x Bull's Strength - Chant | Aid
L3: 2-4x Animate Dead - 1-2x Dispel Magic - 1-2x Prayer | Magic Circle vs. evil
L4: 2x holy power - 2x recitation - nx prot. lightn. - nx FoM - nx Death Ward - 1-2x dismissal | Emotion:hope
L5: 1-2 SR (for PC 5) - nx chaotic commands - 1x Insect Plague (against casters) | Feeblemind
L6: 2x Divine shell - 2-4x Heal - 1x Banishment | Harm
L7: 2-3x Greater shield of L. - 1-2x ISoM - 1-2x Greater Restoration - 1 Elemental Barrier - 1-2x Destruction (optional) - 1-2x Holy Word | Holy Word
L8: nx Holy Aura - nx Mass Heal - 1-2x Symbol of Hopelessness | Holy Aura
L9: Gate or Summon Monsters - as you like | Horrid Wilting
comment on spell selection:
1. on several levels the number of spells selected depend on how you divide these spells between your other 2 divine casters!
2. there aren't many offensive spells selected, but keep in mind that this build has a 10+X WIS boni -> almost no chance to save against - and even a fair chance to pass a fort save in HOF.
- L1 to L3 -> no offensive spells worth to mention
- L4 -> Dismissal - quite good as the caster level comes into play!
- L5 -> Insect plague seems to be not very reliable as the swarm sometimes flies to your own party after a few rounds! Flamestrike is only usefull to finish off trolls - slay living won't work well in HOF
- L6 -> 1 or 2 banishment are always handy - L6 contains the best early D&D divine spells: harm & blade barrier - but with the later editions these spells get quite useless! :-(
- L7 -> Destruction isn't bad in normal and would be nice in HOF, but due to the fort save so not that usefull in HOF (but a fair chance due to the high WIS-boni)
- L8 -> 1 or 2 Symbol of hopelessness to support your arcane casters, but mass heal & holy aura are to good not to have at least 2 or 3 each!
- L9 -> no offensive spells!
3. From the point (mid/late in HOF) your 2 secondary divine casters get access to L6 to L9 spells, you can give them more heal, mass heal (L9 for druids!) and other high level defensive buffs, and change this build to more offensive spells!
4. With the spell selection above you will only benefit from GSF necro!
general comments: main divine caster & secondary melee-fighter - due to extremly high AC potential, melee-capable in HOF. Also a very versatile build for differnt tasks: melee - summoning - buffing - healing - disabling
alternate race: female drow instead of aasimar
a female drow could also be a good choice for this PC but there a several reason to prefer an aasimar:
- +2 wiz
- as main divine caster she should get fast access to some cleric spells (ECL1 vs ECL2)
- as she will use holy avenger she don't need SR that much!
but from the EXP penalty the drow would be better choice if you decide to take the mix-in levels early! (not recommended)
Cause this is the main divine caster, this build should level up as fast as possible to get access to the powerfull divine spells!
You can add the the 2nd Pal level when needed and the monk levels later in mid of HOF - as they are all ilmater you don't need to take pal or monk levels in a row!
You can also completly skip the pal levels and min. CHA and therefore max STR (not recommended)!
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silverdragon72
- Posts: 850
- Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:53 am
- Contact:
7.4. Powerfull MC-builds - 4th PC - artillery
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4th PC:
role: main arcane caster
race: aasimar female (gender doesn't matter)
alignement: lawfull good (must)
stats: STR 11 - DEX 18 - CON 18 - INT 3 - WIS 10 - CHA 20
comment on stats: increase CHA as far as possible!
major class: sorceress 25/28 (for breaking SR, damage multiplier uncapped spells & special spells like lower resistance)
mix-ins: PAL 2 - optional: fighter 2 - rogue 1
order of levels:
1st & 2nd paladin
after 27th: paladin 2 - sorceress 25
final: paladin 2 - sorceress 25/28 - optional: fighter 2 - rogue 1 (EXP-hit!)
most important spells HOF: WotB, Symbol: hopelessness, FoD, malison, lower resistance, imp. invis., low level defensive stat buffs for the whole party: stoneskin, prot. miss.!
most important spells normal: fireball, DBFB, chain lightning, chromatic orb, icelance!
comment on spell selection: As sorcs have a limited spell selection don't give her spell like mass haste! This spell you cast only once or twice berfore/per combat and are better casted by one of your support arcane casters.
Give her e.g. cats grace or other spells you cast several times per day, as the sorc has a great number of spells per level available and don't need to memorize them! (I cast cats grace, bulls strength, prot. missiles, stoneskin and other long-duration buffs on every party member after resting)!
most important feats:
- GSF evoc (asap), necro - optional: enchantment (for mass domination in HOF!)
- elemental feats, spirit of flame asap - optional: a 2nd one
- don't take spell focus cause
a) you will damage your own party more then the enemy this way!
b) there are only very few enemies with SR
c) the lower resistance spell works quite well on them!
comment on feats: as this PC gets only gets a maximum of 11 feats (at level 30), you need to choose quite well which feat to take at what point:
- 4 or 6 feats for GSF (evoc 1st, necro mid/end normal game)
- 2 or 3 elemental feats (spirit of flame asap)
- 1 for combat casting (?)
- 1 for subvocal casting (?)
skills: concentration maxed & spellcraft 10 for elemental feats
general comments: main arcane caster & and master of mass-destruction especially in HOF: cast symbol: hopelessness and malison from a secondary caster - then walk in the middle of your enemies cast WoB - and nearly everybody drops dead!!! - this build rocks in HOF!
taking the 2 Pal levels first (all weapon & armor feats for free, immunity to fear and excellent saves) she is a very good melee fighter early in the game! Having 8(!) MI available I always send her on melee against golems or in the middle of an enemy crowd to cast WoB! If you give her tensers and M-sword or BBD she could deal melee damage at almost any point of the game to magic resistant enemies!
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4th PC:
role: main arcane caster
race: aasimar female (gender doesn't matter)
alignement: lawfull good (must)
stats: STR 11 - DEX 18 - CON 18 - INT 3 - WIS 10 - CHA 20
comment on stats: increase CHA as far as possible!
major class: sorceress 25/28 (for breaking SR, damage multiplier uncapped spells & special spells like lower resistance)
mix-ins: PAL 2 - optional: fighter 2 - rogue 1
order of levels:
1st & 2nd paladin
after 27th: paladin 2 - sorceress 25
final: paladin 2 - sorceress 25/28 - optional: fighter 2 - rogue 1 (EXP-hit!)
most important spells HOF: WotB, Symbol: hopelessness, FoD, malison, lower resistance, imp. invis., low level defensive stat buffs for the whole party: stoneskin, prot. miss.!
most important spells normal: fireball, DBFB, chain lightning, chromatic orb, icelance!
comment on spell selection: As sorcs have a limited spell selection don't give her spell like mass haste! This spell you cast only once or twice berfore/per combat and are better casted by one of your support arcane casters.
Give her e.g. cats grace or other spells you cast several times per day, as the sorc has a great number of spells per level available and don't need to memorize them! (I cast cats grace, bulls strength, prot. missiles, stoneskin and other long-duration buffs on every party member after resting)!
most important feats:
- GSF evoc (asap), necro - optional: enchantment (for mass domination in HOF!)
- elemental feats, spirit of flame asap - optional: a 2nd one
- don't take spell focus cause
a) you will damage your own party more then the enemy this way!
b) there are only very few enemies with SR
c) the lower resistance spell works quite well on them!
comment on feats: as this PC gets only gets a maximum of 11 feats (at level 30), you need to choose quite well which feat to take at what point:
- 4 or 6 feats for GSF (evoc 1st, necro mid/end normal game)
- 2 or 3 elemental feats (spirit of flame asap)
- 1 for combat casting (?)
- 1 for subvocal casting (?)
skills: concentration maxed & spellcraft 10 for elemental feats
general comments: main arcane caster & and master of mass-destruction especially in HOF: cast symbol: hopelessness and malison from a secondary caster - then walk in the middle of your enemies cast WoB - and nearly everybody drops dead!!! - this build rocks in HOF!
taking the 2 Pal levels first (all weapon & armor feats for free, immunity to fear and excellent saves) she is a very good melee fighter early in the game! Having 8(!) MI available I always send her on melee against golems or in the middle of an enemy crowd to cast WoB! If you give her tensers and M-sword or BBD she could deal melee damage at almost any point of the game to magic resistant enemies!
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silverdragon72
- Posts: 850
- Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:53 am
- Contact:
7.5. Powerfull MC-builds - 5th PC - diplomat / party support
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5th PC:
role: diplomat - party-support
race: human female (gender doesn't matter)
alignement: neutral good (neutral is a must)
stats: STR 8 - DEX 12 - CON 10 - INT 14 - WIS 18 - CHA 14
comment on stats: increase DEX to 13 or 14, rest goes to WIS - 8 STR aren't needed but it's a pain in the a** if she can't carry anything!
as she only gets 9 Bard levels (means only L3 spells) CHA 14 is enough!
As long as you go for a shape-shifting build (what is recommended - you don't need high STR, DEX & CON stats as these get overwritten by the shapeshift! You could even decrease these stats, if you want more INT for extra SP, but be carefull that the build don't gets to fragile that way!
major class: druid 21 (using weimar mod - needed for shapeshifting elemental half-dragon)
mix-ins: bard 9
order of levels:
1st to 5th: bard
6th to 8th: druid (then stop levelling until you can jump directly to level 21!)
27th to 30: 4 more bard levels
final: bard 9 - druid 21
most important spells:
bard: focus on defense buffs (all offensive spells allowing a save are useless)
druid: barkskin for the ultimate AC PCs! - summons - heal
spell selection bard:
L1: not that it will help much, but best choice is chromatic orb
L2: as much MI as possible - 1-3x blur
L3: 2-4x blink - 1-2x magic circle vs. evil
L4: this build will only have access to L3 spells!
spell selection druid: basic | additional with weimar mod (under construction)
L1: 3-4x Faerie Fire (great spell - no save allowed!) - 2-3x sunscorch (to elimate trolls!)
L2: that's why we have a druid -> only barkskin!
L3: nx Prot. Fire - 1-2X Storm shell - 1-2x neutralize Poison - 1-2x remove disease
L4: nx Prot. Lightning - nx FoM - 1-2x Dispel - optional: spike stones
L5: nx death ward - 1-2 insect plague
L6: just forget this level :-((
L7: heal - optional: elemental barrier
L8: another crappy level: FoD (but not that effective due to medium WIS-bonus) - summon
L9: 2+ mass heal - optional: 1 of the several summon spell
most important feats:
- expertise (always maxed - but set to 0 when shapeshifted!)
- lingering song
- combat casting
- extra wild shapes as needed
I'm not 100% if all combat feats work while shapeshifted:
- Improved critical should work
- also weapon specilization works (but AFAIK you need Great Sword, even though the half-dragon uses normal swords - so better test this!)
- not sure about 2-weapons fighting & Ambidex
but be aware that the melee-combat feats are only usefull if you use the half-dragon shapeshifts!!!
...otherwise go for casting feats (but only GSF necro!), ranged combat feats or whatever other feats you prefer!
skills: all diplomat skills maxed + concentration (as CON is quite low), wilderness lore if needed
general comments: diplomat & support PC most of the game - didn't kill one enemy in normal game - keeps out of the action & plays tymoras song most of the time - but her low level (8) decreases the average party level! - levelling up to druid 21 she can shapeshift to the incredible powerfull elemental half-dragon (didn't level up and didn't use shapeshifting in normal mode to avoid imbalancing the game to much!)
after druid 21: cast MI, blink, blur then shapeshift to half-dragon - let your sorc cast stoneskin - then go for melee - but keep close to a cleric if you need a heal or another stone-/ironskin spell (due to the very low AC you will get hit quite often, so you have to rely on as much DR as possible and MI, blink, blur) - return to your normal shape if the protection buffs run out or another party member needs support!
weimar mod - shapeshift to (elemental) half-dragon: as stated above - incredible powerfull:
- extrem high BAB
- extrem melee damage plus extra elemental damage - depending on element(s)
- SR
- DR
- resitance to (all) elemental damage - depending on element(s)
- but very low AC
all spells/buffs increasing stats or AC won't affect the shape-shift!
but spells like MI, blink & blur (casted before shapeshifting), stoneskin and so on - will work!
alternate builds: if you don't want to use the weimar mod, taking druid levels beyond 12 only for shapeshifting isn't that effective!
But there aren't many good high level druid spells beside heal & mass heal - so for a caster build more druid levels could make sense! But add at least 2 more bard levels to get access to all songs! This way you would have a bard 11 - druid 19 (druid with at least 3 L9 spells)
adding another mix-in class isn't recommended for this build.
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5th PC:
role: diplomat - party-support
race: human female (gender doesn't matter)
alignement: neutral good (neutral is a must)
stats: STR 8 - DEX 12 - CON 10 - INT 14 - WIS 18 - CHA 14
comment on stats: increase DEX to 13 or 14, rest goes to WIS - 8 STR aren't needed but it's a pain in the a** if she can't carry anything!
as she only gets 9 Bard levels (means only L3 spells) CHA 14 is enough!
As long as you go for a shape-shifting build (what is recommended - you don't need high STR, DEX & CON stats as these get overwritten by the shapeshift! You could even decrease these stats, if you want more INT for extra SP, but be carefull that the build don't gets to fragile that way!
major class: druid 21 (using weimar mod - needed for shapeshifting elemental half-dragon)
mix-ins: bard 9
order of levels:
1st to 5th: bard
6th to 8th: druid (then stop levelling until you can jump directly to level 21!)
27th to 30: 4 more bard levels
final: bard 9 - druid 21
most important spells:
bard: focus on defense buffs (all offensive spells allowing a save are useless)
druid: barkskin for the ultimate AC PCs! - summons - heal
spell selection bard:
L1: not that it will help much, but best choice is chromatic orb
L2: as much MI as possible - 1-3x blur
L3: 2-4x blink - 1-2x magic circle vs. evil
L4: this build will only have access to L3 spells!
spell selection druid: basic | additional with weimar mod (under construction)
L1: 3-4x Faerie Fire (great spell - no save allowed!) - 2-3x sunscorch (to elimate trolls!)
L2: that's why we have a druid -> only barkskin!
L3: nx Prot. Fire - 1-2X Storm shell - 1-2x neutralize Poison - 1-2x remove disease
L4: nx Prot. Lightning - nx FoM - 1-2x Dispel - optional: spike stones
L5: nx death ward - 1-2 insect plague
L6: just forget this level :-((
L7: heal - optional: elemental barrier
L8: another crappy level: FoD (but not that effective due to medium WIS-bonus) - summon
L9: 2+ mass heal - optional: 1 of the several summon spell
most important feats:
- expertise (always maxed - but set to 0 when shapeshifted!)
- lingering song
- combat casting
- extra wild shapes as needed
I'm not 100% if all combat feats work while shapeshifted:
- Improved critical should work
- also weapon specilization works (but AFAIK you need Great Sword, even though the half-dragon uses normal swords - so better test this!)
- not sure about 2-weapons fighting & Ambidex
but be aware that the melee-combat feats are only usefull if you use the half-dragon shapeshifts!!!
...otherwise go for casting feats (but only GSF necro!), ranged combat feats or whatever other feats you prefer!
skills: all diplomat skills maxed + concentration (as CON is quite low), wilderness lore if needed
general comments: diplomat & support PC most of the game - didn't kill one enemy in normal game - keeps out of the action & plays tymoras song most of the time - but her low level (8) decreases the average party level! - levelling up to druid 21 she can shapeshift to the incredible powerfull elemental half-dragon (didn't level up and didn't use shapeshifting in normal mode to avoid imbalancing the game to much!)
after druid 21: cast MI, blink, blur then shapeshift to half-dragon - let your sorc cast stoneskin - then go for melee - but keep close to a cleric if you need a heal or another stone-/ironskin spell (due to the very low AC you will get hit quite often, so you have to rely on as much DR as possible and MI, blink, blur) - return to your normal shape if the protection buffs run out or another party member needs support!
weimar mod - shapeshift to (elemental) half-dragon: as stated above - incredible powerfull:
- extrem high BAB
- extrem melee damage plus extra elemental damage - depending on element(s)
- SR
- DR
- resitance to (all) elemental damage - depending on element(s)
- but very low AC
all spells/buffs increasing stats or AC won't affect the shape-shift!
but spells like MI, blink & blur (casted before shapeshifting), stoneskin and so on - will work!
alternate builds: if you don't want to use the weimar mod, taking druid levels beyond 12 only for shapeshifting isn't that effective!
But there aren't many good high level druid spells beside heal & mass heal - so for a caster build more druid levels could make sense! But add at least 2 more bard levels to get access to all songs! This way you would have a bard 11 - druid 19 (druid with at least 3 L9 spells)
adding another mix-in class isn't recommended for this build.
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silverdragon72
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7.6. powerfull MC-builds - 6th PC - secondary arcane caster - spellsword
[QUOTE=silverdragon72].
6th PC:
role: secondary arcane caster - spellsword
race: tiefling male (gender doesn't matter - next time I would conisder a male drow instead - but you will reach critical levels/spells a little bit later!)
alignement: chaotic neutral (neutral is a must for using a powerfull dagger later in the game)
stats: STR 13 - DEX 20 - CON 18 - INT 20 - WIS 6 - CHA 1
comment on stats: increase STR 14, rest INT - 6 WIS gives a little weak will save - getting better through wiz-levles later or use chaotic commands or another spells like this.
major class: wizard 20
mix-ins: rogue 10
order of levels:
1st: rogue
2nd to 21th: wizard (stop levelling for a while after you have haste & mass haste, don't level up if there are no good spells available!)
final: wizard 20 - rogue 10
most important spells: wiz offensive & defensive buffs your sorc doesn't have, give him all scrolls to scribe that you can find!
most important feats: GSF evoc & necro, elemental feats & some combat feats later if you like (you have a massive amount of feats!)
skills: alchemy, spellcraft, knowledge arcana, concentration & search maxed + move silent & hide if you have free SP
general comments: not the best PC in this party - but you need him somehow - very good at the beginning until your sorc is high enough (he is always 1 or 2 spell-levels higher then your sorc) - identifies all items - and you need an generalist arcane caster for the spells your sorc doesn't have...
...but compared to the sorceress in HOF he is quite weak - but later with the rogue levels and all arcane buffs a good melee-fighter (using M-sword or BBD)
alternative:
A) instead of the 10 rogue levels use the mix-in classes from the 1st PC - but then start levelling reverse beside the rogue level!
B) skip this PC and use a carbon copy of the 4th PC - but give the missing skills: knowledge arcana & alchemy to someone else then![/QUOTE]
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[QUOTE=silverdragon72].
6th PC:
role: secondary arcane caster - spellsword
race: tiefling male (gender doesn't matter - next time I would conisder a male drow instead - but you will reach critical levels/spells a little bit later!)
alignement: chaotic neutral (neutral is a must for using a powerfull dagger later in the game)
stats: STR 13 - DEX 20 - CON 18 - INT 20 - WIS 6 - CHA 1
comment on stats: increase STR 14, rest INT - 6 WIS gives a little weak will save - getting better through wiz-levles later or use chaotic commands or another spells like this.
major class: wizard 20
mix-ins: rogue 10
order of levels:
1st: rogue
2nd to 21th: wizard (stop levelling for a while after you have haste & mass haste, don't level up if there are no good spells available!)
final: wizard 20 - rogue 10
most important spells: wiz offensive & defensive buffs your sorc doesn't have, give him all scrolls to scribe that you can find!
most important feats: GSF evoc & necro, elemental feats & some combat feats later if you like (you have a massive amount of feats!)
skills: alchemy, spellcraft, knowledge arcana, concentration & search maxed + move silent & hide if you have free SP
general comments: not the best PC in this party - but you need him somehow - very good at the beginning until your sorc is high enough (he is always 1 or 2 spell-levels higher then your sorc) - identifies all items - and you need an generalist arcane caster for the spells your sorc doesn't have...
...but compared to the sorceress in HOF he is quite weak - but later with the rogue levels and all arcane buffs a good melee-fighter (using M-sword or BBD)
alternative:
A) instead of the 10 rogue levels use the mix-in classes from the 1st PC - but then start levelling reverse beside the rogue level!
B) skip this PC and use a carbon copy of the 4th PC - but give the missing skills: knowledge arcana & alchemy to someone else then![/QUOTE]
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silverdragon72
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- Contact:
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silverdragon72
- Posts: 850
- Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:53 am
- Contact:
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silverdragon72
- Posts: 850
- Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:53 am
- Contact:
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silverdragon72
- Posts: 850
- Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:53 am
- Contact:
8. level-up concepts
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Q: for what are level-up concepts needed?
A: this way you try to level up your PCs / party as fast as possible to the final planned build via several (as powerfull as possible) steps.
Q: what is the general idea behind all level-up concepts?
A: getting more EXP from combat then you should
Q: what are the major level-up concepts?
A: there a 3 different concepts:
- party with less then 6 PC
- level squatting
- muling
Q: How do you get EXP in IWD2?
A: there are 3 different ways:
1. Combat EXP - shared among the party per head
2. Quest EXP - given per head
3. you can buy a book in the monastry (one in normal and a 2nd one givining more EXP in HOF) - giving EXP to only one party member
Q: How does IWD2 calculate combat EXP?
A: Depends on several factors:
- generally each killed enemy gives an amount of EXP shared among the party per head
- the amount of EXP a monster gives, depends on the delta between the average party level and the set difficulty rate of the monster
- if the average party level is to high you get less or even no EXP for a kill, if it's lower you get (much) more EXP from a kill
- there is one exception: until your party reaches ~level 6 or 7 - you get a preset amount of EXP for each kill
Q: How does IWD2 calculate the average party level?
A: the levels of all party members will be added, divided through the number of party members and then rounded down - some examples:
6 PCs all level 6: 6 x 6 / 6 = 6
5 PCs all level 8: 5 x 8 / 5 = 8
5 PCs level 10 one PC level 9: (5 x 10 + 1 x 9) / 6 => 59 / 6 => 9,83 => 9
so it absolutely makes sense to keep at least one PC one level lower then the rest of the party!
At this point ECL races could be very handy: one aasimar alone keeps your average party level one level lower, 3 drows and one aasimar even 2 levels!
All muling & level-squatting strategies use this effect!
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.
Q: for what are level-up concepts needed?
A: this way you try to level up your PCs / party as fast as possible to the final planned build via several (as powerfull as possible) steps.
Q: what is the general idea behind all level-up concepts?
A: getting more EXP from combat then you should
Q: what are the major level-up concepts?
A: there a 3 different concepts:
- party with less then 6 PC
- level squatting
- muling
Q: How do you get EXP in IWD2?
A: there are 3 different ways:
1. Combat EXP - shared among the party per head
2. Quest EXP - given per head
3. you can buy a book in the monastry (one in normal and a 2nd one givining more EXP in HOF) - giving EXP to only one party member
Q: How does IWD2 calculate combat EXP?
A: Depends on several factors:
- generally each killed enemy gives an amount of EXP shared among the party per head
- the amount of EXP a monster gives, depends on the delta between the average party level and the set difficulty rate of the monster
- if the average party level is to high you get less or even no EXP for a kill, if it's lower you get (much) more EXP from a kill
- there is one exception: until your party reaches ~level 6 or 7 - you get a preset amount of EXP for each kill
Q: How does IWD2 calculate the average party level?
A: the levels of all party members will be added, divided through the number of party members and then rounded down - some examples:
6 PCs all level 6: 6 x 6 / 6 = 6
5 PCs all level 8: 5 x 8 / 5 = 8
5 PCs level 10 one PC level 9: (5 x 10 + 1 x 9) / 6 => 59 / 6 => 9,83 => 9
so it absolutely makes sense to keep at least one PC one level lower then the rest of the party!
At this point ECL races could be very handy: one aasimar alone keeps your average party level one level lower, 3 drows and one aasimar even 2 levels!
All muling & level-squatting strategies use this effect!
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silverdragon72
- Posts: 850
- Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:53 am
- Contact:
8.1. party with less then 6 PC
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Combat EXP is shared per head among your party...
...with a party of X you get Y% EXP from combat:
6 PCs - 100%
5 PCs - 120%
4 PCs - 150%
3 PCs - 200%
2 PCs - 300%
1 PC - 600%
...so with less then 6 PCs you can get more EXP from combat then you should!
But there are some critical disadvantages in this concept:
...quest EXP is always given per head
...and even worse - having less party members you will level up much faster early in the game. But combat EXP is calculated on the average party level. And the average party level is calculated on the number of real members in your party not on a base of 6!!!
This way you will have a much higher party level then you should in the mid-game! And therefore you will get much less EXP or even no EXP from combat until your average party level is that low as it should later in the game!
Just with a party of less then 6 you won't level up faster then with a party of six in the long run! You could even be worse cause at the point of the game where you really benefit in level from less then 6 (ice-tempel) you fight the golems that give the some of best EXP combat EXP in the game. With a high average level at this point you will loose that much EXP that it will be quite hard to compensate on a long run!
And always remember a party of six is always better then a party of only 4 as the level difference is not to big (besides very early in the game).
resumee: I wouldn't recommend this concept!
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Combat EXP is shared per head among your party...
...with a party of X you get Y% EXP from combat:
6 PCs - 100%
5 PCs - 120%
4 PCs - 150%
3 PCs - 200%
2 PCs - 300%
1 PC - 600%
...so with less then 6 PCs you can get more EXP from combat then you should!
But there are some critical disadvantages in this concept:
...quest EXP is always given per head
...and even worse - having less party members you will level up much faster early in the game. But combat EXP is calculated on the average party level. And the average party level is calculated on the number of real members in your party not on a base of 6!!!
This way you will have a much higher party level then you should in the mid-game! And therefore you will get much less EXP or even no EXP from combat until your average party level is that low as it should later in the game!
Just with a party of less then 6 you won't level up faster then with a party of six in the long run! You could even be worse cause at the point of the game where you really benefit in level from less then 6 (ice-tempel) you fight the golems that give the some of best EXP combat EXP in the game. With a high average level at this point you will loose that much EXP that it will be quite hard to compensate on a long run!
And always remember a party of six is always better then a party of only 4 as the level difference is not to big (besides very early in the game).
resumee: I wouldn't recommend this concept!
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