I'm just coming up to the end of the game now, but thought I'd post this now so that by the time I finish it, someone would have replied to this.
I am totally confused with the story, and I don't know about you guys, but I found KOTOR1's story much easier to follow.
Basically, everything with Kreia and Atris has confused the hell out of me. The second I went to the jedi enclave and they were taking away my force powers (I'm LS) was when the confusion began for me. Why did Kreia stop them and kill them? Why did she say something like.. "he is gone now." And why did she even bother going to Atris? Was Atris always Sith? Was it Kreia that gave her the nudge to join the dark side? Why did she do this? Why did she want me to fight with Atris? Why did she tell Handmaiden I was dead?
Argh.. I could go on.. but to sum up my questions: what is the deal with Kreia and Atris
I think atris went evil after the fall of the jedi, she said in 1 of the conversations with her that atris has not existed for a long time. after the fall of the jedi she then took refuge on telos, in an old sith academy (this is my theory) and got polluted by the sith holocrons in the academy (just before she fights you your character hear "the hissing of sith holocrons" in her meditation chamber)
My final verdict is this: atris was polluted by the sith holocrons, she tried to resist at first but then she relaxed in its power, she gathered together the handmaidens aka "echani sisters" to create the apperance of power, she remade the old sith academy so it belended in with its surrounding and so it didn't look evil.
When kreia came to telos (for the second time) she all ready knew atris was evil and since kreia herself had changed, she told atris to reveal herself as evil. But atris was really proud and she didn't want to tell you that she had fallen.
If you saved her, she returns to the light, but if you kill her, well, she dies.
That what I think happened to atris. Might not be true but it fits in with the KOTOR story line.
If you observe all the conversations with her you will notice that in everyone she gets angry except in the last converstion if you choose to save her.
Kreia saved you from the Jedi--although I'm not convinced she actually killed them--because you had become so powerful and she wanted to preserve you. Also, you were a lesson to the Jedi of what it meant to be cut off from the Force and then come back into it and how much stronger you would be. She told the Handmaiden "he is gone now" to let her think you, the Exile, had been killed. Handmaiden then drags Kreia to Telos for judgement because she discovers Kreia is Sith. Kreia does this to open Atris' eyes and let her realize what had happened to her, but *this* she does so that when you come after Kreia, you will have to face Atris; Kreia says later in the game how Atris was a part of your past that you needed to face, and that's why she did that (plus, Kreia couldn't let her teachings continue). And the deal with Kreia and Atris is this: nothing. All Atris was--all she ever was--was a tool for Kreia in helping to mold you into the perfect Force wielder. So she manuevers you and Atris into fighting one another, so you can overcome here and beat her; that way, you won't have any more "distractions" (remember the comment you made to Kreia before freeing her the first time in the Academy, where she mentions Atris is a distraction to you).
Yes, Atris did fall from grace a while back, although maybe it was sooner than the fal of the Jedi; she seemed rather pissed off when you view the recording T3 stole, and wants the Exile to be killed. That is most certainly not the Jedi way. The place she took refuge, though, I don't think it was a Sith Academy. It was just the water reclaimation station or whatever they called it. She and her servants gathered much knowledge of both the Jedi and the Sith to Telos in order that Atris might study it and learn where the Sith were attacking from; she also wanted to protect the knowledge of the Jedi. But she allowed the Sith holocrons she studied to pollute her without her realizing it.
Kreia hadn't changed, though. She may have "become" Sith, but wasn't she always? Also, the entire game, she remains completely neutral in alignment. Just because she flees to the Sith Academy doesn't mean she "changed," though.
General: "Those aren't ideas; those are special effects."
Michael Bay: "I don't understand the difference."
I think Kreia got fed up with the master Jedis 'shortsightedness' and dealt with them in a rage suiting a Sith. Or maybe she just took the opportunity to kill many powerful Jedi in one go thus dealing with the Sith's biggest threat. It may have just been intended as a clear reveal that Kreia is against the Jedi and the light-side.
I would be interested in finding out why Kreia and T3 were with you in the first place though.
Atris was never that powerful, and Kreia was talking a lot about standing on your feet alone, and breaking ties with others, so she set up you and Atris to fight. It slowed you down enough for her to reach Malachor, didnt it?
As for the why she fought you..., I forget, but didnt it have to do something with teaching you something? I know it has something to do with you being a wound in the force..., maybe she was following Sith teachings and seeing if you could surpass your sith "master"?
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well, if your darkside she turns on you because you "have learned nothing". meaning her sith teachings aren't the same as your darkside beliefs (sith aren't as standard in their teachings as Jedi, this is true throughout star wars mythology until you reach the line of sith that lead to the empire since they were the only ones left), so my basic thought is that she is thinking that you may be dark, but you have failed her and your undertsnading must be dealt with (like Atris'), of course, thsi is all guesswork, i havent actually completed the game yet, i'm still upset about all the loose ends involving Revan and such. Hopefully KoToR III if released ties everything together.
and doesnt see say that you have learned nothing anyways?
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and doesnt see say that you have learned nothing anyways?[/QUOTE]
She only says that if you killed the Jedi Masters yourself. You wind up telling her you didn't get as much satisfaction out of killing them as you thought, and at that point she just totally piddles on your parade. If you leave all the Masters alive, she doesn't say you learned nothing, but claims you walked away from the "power" Revan and Malak had because you were afraid.
As for why she fought you, part of it is because she betrayed you. Also, if you didn't fight her, she would have killed herself, which would have also killed you, and would have somehow deafened all Force sensitives to the Force. But also she wanted to teach you one last lesson, and it did seem to be rather Sith-oriented. You had to overcome your teacher and become better than her, which you prove by besting her.
Anyway, I don't think she killed those Masters, and I'm not sure why I'm mentioning this. She keeps on talking, which obviously is the way she has to to communicate her ideas to you, the player. But she keeps talking kind of like she's talking *to* the Masters, and also to you, the Exile. Also, I think--although I'm not sure--that Nihilus, Sion, and Traya were the last of the so-called Sith forged from the Mandalorian War and the Jedi Civil War. With them all out of the way, it would leave the new Jedi following in the wake of those wars to fight the True Sith. As she was once Jedi but for so long was also Sith, a lot of her thinking was colored by Sith teachings. As such, she is going to of course behave and think more Sith-like than she would Jedi-like, which is part of why she has to be overcome in the last battle. That and because she was also an obstacle and distraction to overcome, just like Atris; Kreia had betrayed you, more or less, and she--as a Sith--was the enemy you were taught to fight, so she had to be beaten.
General: "Those aren't ideas; those are special effects."
Michael Bay: "I don't understand the difference."
Didnt she want to use you to deafen everyone to the force? To create a huge wound in the force by using you or by finding a way to use that power herself. Didnt some of the masters mention that they were scared of you because we were a wound in the force, and that sith could follow wjhat happened to you and turn more people into wounds in the force?
And we all know from other games and movies that famous heroes and villians tend to talk to there vanquished enemies corpeses when they are dead, chimera. And besides, didnt it say that there was a body, but no force, so they were worse then dead when you examined their bodies and looked in your journals. Apparently, they werent dead, they just had no intellegence or soul(kinda close to it though).
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Yes, but didn't the Council say the same about the Exile in the video T3 stole? Atris says the Exile was dead already, and how they could all see it. They probably saw something very similar to or exactly like what we saw of the Masters after Kreia finished with them. They'd probably wake up later and find themselves in a similar situation to the Exile way back when.
General: "Those aren't ideas; those are special effects."
Michael Bay: "I don't understand the difference."
But isn't it two different situations? The Exile didn't get his powers taken away. They just faded away, while the masters had their essence sucked out of them. As far as the story went, I'm pretty sure they're as good as dead.
But the Exile's power hadn't faded away, either. It had become painful for him/her to retain his/her connection to the Force without enduring the pain of the Mandalorian War. So the Exile cut him/herself off from the Force so totally, completely, and abruptly. As soon as the Exile found it necessary to use the Force to survive on Peragus, s/he allowed the Force to slowly return, although it probably was more subconscious. The Jedi had the Force ripped from them, yes, but maybe not. Since life is the Force and the Force comes from life, to cut one off from the Force like that, it would mean death (at least, that's my conclusion). But the Jedi couldn't "cut" one off from the Force, because that would mean death, and Jedi aren't supposed to do that -rolls eyes- I think instead they just block you from accessing the Force, and that's probably what Kreia did to the three masters. She showed the Jedi that life could exist without the Force, and how it could make one stronger, but because the Jedi were arrogant, she cut them off from the Force so they would have to find that lesson out for themselves.
Frankly, I think it was dumb what the Jedi say to the Exile. If the Exile was merely deafened to the Force, killing life and leeching off it isn't going to restore the Force to him/her. But the Jedi admit that that's what happened: the Exile had merely been deafened to the Force, as if s/he forgot how to use it, but after killing however many people it took to get to them, that brought the Force back to him/her. That's just ridiculous.
General: "Those aren't ideas; those are special effects."
Michael Bay: "I don't understand the difference."
He didn't block himself from the Force. That's why he asked the Masters why they took away the Force from him. But obviously they didn't either. And according to some info in the game, the Masters have taken the Force away from Jedi's before as punishment, since they couldn't kill them.
atris did tell the exile that kreia wanted to get rid of the force altogether, didnt she? at least thats what i got out of it. but, then, this definately means kreia was neither sith/jedi, even though she did admire the exile's ability to turn from the ds and regain such power. she just abhorred the force altogether. imo, she was quite the fool to think that any1 person could rid the universe of the force in the first place, considering the force flows throughout all things. besides, if she wanted to rid the universe of the force, shed have to do what nihlius(sp?) did to every single planet and then explore the rest of hyperspace. im glad shes dead. i think shes just mad that sion and nihlius cast her down, so shes just takin it all out on every1 else. shes just a big baby that had to be shut down, and thats just what our exile did. period.
COME ON, KOTOR III. I'M WAITIN!
TALK IS CHEAP 'CAUSE SUPPLY>DEMAND.
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She wanted to create another wound in the force, kinda like what the exile was by destroying Malachor I think? The echo from the planet's destruction would um... echo...? through the force, blocking out all force users from being able to use it. At least that's what I got from it.
