Bards, Mages or Thieves--Which is stronger?

Berethor · Post by **Berethor** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 6:19 pm

A topic like this has been made before and I thought it was fun. Tell us which one you think is stronger if you like.

I like thieves over all. They are very sneaky, and can be very deadly if used properly. A well used bard can take out any mage with a backstab, ditto for a bard. Mages have spells like true sight that can reveal thieves but if a thieve has non detection the mage cant do anything. bards like blades have defensive spin, but would any bard really be expecting a backstab?

fable · Post by **fable** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 6:22 pm

Not an identical topic, I think. But I'd have to say, any of the three can beat the rest if they're allowed to get the special abilities available only in ToB. In SoA alone, I'd give the palm to mages. A good high level spell beats even four-of-a-kind.

Berethor · Post by **Berethor** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 6:59 pm

What about thieves that are invisible and you are not expecting? thieves can get really annoying, like the old god of murders assassins, those guys were brutal.

fable · Post by **fable** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 7:13 pm

If a thief is invisible, there are many spells that will remove that. In a magical sense, that makes a thief a one-trick pony. A mage, or better yet, a sorceror, has many different options to use in combat.

Raven_Song · Post by **Raven_Song** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 2:48 am

I've voted bards

Backstab is useful but requires a great deal of planning / skill to pull it off effectively (to be honest after you've played through the game several times you know at what points you are likley to be backstabbed by enemy rogues. Like Fable says thieves are pretty much a 1 trick pony.

Admittedly mages may become more powerful than bards, but I find bards far more flexible being able to engage both in spell slinging and melee even at lower levels.

Edit

Just dawned on me the title for the poll is bards, clerics or thieves
The polling options are bards, mages or thieves - which is it?

Berethor · Post by **Berethor** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 5:55 am

Whoops, Fable can you change the name please?

Coot · Post by **Coot** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 6:37 am

Clerics may not be as flashy as some classes, but they excel in defending themselves. When properly buffed, they may withstand backstab or other physical harm and many a magical attack. At the same time they're able to do some serious damage themselves, either by spells or by fighting. Sure, their THAC0 isn't great but can be compensated (and then some) by spells like Draw Upon Holy Might, Champions Strength, Righteous Magic e. o.
It's just too bad that clerics depend so much on buffing before a fight. They're in trouble when taken by surprise. A mage can raise his defenses quickly with spell sequencers and the like.

Still, why not to expand the poll and put the other classes there as well? I'm sure a monk, for instance, wouldn't mind debating the mage's supremacy, with their magic resistance and sneaking abilities.

fable · Post by **fable** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 7:16 am

[QUOTE=Berethor]Whoops, Fable can you change the name please?[/QUOTE]

I've changed it to reflect mages rather than clerics, as you wish.

Lasher · Post by **Lasher** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 10:07 am

I think that the mages (indeed as fable said, sorcerers are even better), are the strongest of all the classes, exept perhaps my previously played kensai, prepped and ready for wizard hunting. You can't mess with time stop, baby... and besides, the sorcerer, I feel, is the most rpg-like, seeing as one is best suited to deal quickly with the unexpected.

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 10:47 am

Actually, in ToB at least, some enemies are immune to Timestop.

Though, this is SoA we are talking about.. so, I think I'd probably have to put my vote with mages (preferably sorcerers if that counts).

Berethor · Post by **Berethor** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 2:39 pm

I voted thieves, but bards are also a good class. I am having a problem in the Bridge district for the tanner quest. even with blur, ghost armour, mirror image, the rune assassins keep taking me down.

that doesnt keep them from being strong. They have good pickpockets and lore, though they could use detect traps and disarm tarps. they only get lvl 6 spells but they can get some good bolstering spells.

Thieves can be stronger though, as thieves have backstab. and to respond to fables post, what if a thief had a cloak of non detection, and the mage wasnt expecting a backstab? he would be badly damaged if not killed.

Raven_Song · Post by **Raven_Song** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 3:09 pm

Yes thieves can be stronger but the problem is they require far more specific circumstances to be able to do so, especially for backstabbing

* Successful hide/move silently
* Equipment so they are immune to magical detection
* Being able to manouver into the right position to make the back-stab
* The back-stab actually hitting
* The right +x enchanted weapon to hit certain creatures
* Hope the mage doesn't have some sort of nasty contingency that kicks in once he's hit

Mages and bards by comparison see an enemy point finger.... and well the rest speaks for itself

myrophine · Post by **myrophine** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 4:06 pm

I voted mage based on what they contribute to a party. As has been said in other posts there is a lush variety of offensive and defensive spells which are quite potent.

Of course having said all this maybe I'll have to try a party with no mage and find out if they are really as essential an ingredient as I suppose.

HMMMM

Maybe I'll reconsider? I don't know how I'd play with all the locks and traps without a thief. I can't roll play a sorceror having to rest every 6-7 locks (or reading the walkthrough to find what needs to be opened

). Monk is fine for traps, however.

So I change my vote. Its no doubt possible to beat the game without either... but it would annoy me more to be without thief (heck you could have sorcerors to dupe as mages!)

myrophine

darkraven · Post by **darkraven** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 12:32 am

I have voted for the mage because they have a load of abilties that make them rather hard to defeat.With one spell a mage can seriously weaken an entire party and then pick them off one at time.Againist a solo opponent they can easily pick them apart since they can quick rasie defenses and at higher level they can unleash several powerfully spells at once defeating a enemy before they even have time to react.

I do think that bards are very strong in there own right since they have access to spells and can defend themselves in melee combat if it come to that.There biggest access to a party is however the bard song(excluding the jester)so I think that bards work best in a group where they can focus on casting spells or using there bard song.They can take down weaker enemies in melee combat but I prefer from them to stay in a supportive role.

Thieve can be dangerous since they are master at the sneak skill and at high levels they have traps that can bring down the strongest fighters and most skilled mages.I find trap to be extremely boring so I have never every used them because I like to think about how I am going to win a tough battle and not just lay traps and then rest repeat the process.Backstab is a excellent damage dealer but the problem with that is once you come out the shadows then the enemy is going to swarm you and I have had a thief knocked before he can drink another invisible potion.Thieve are still fun however but they depend to much on magical potion to be very effective in combat for my liking.I found them to be overrated by most but they are a strong class in there own right.