Inquisitors too powerful?

45th Parallel · Post by **45th Parallel** » Mon Jul 02, 2001 8:51 am

Do you think Inquisitors make the game too easy due to their insanely powerful dispel ability?

My answer: yes!

I’ve been playing through ToB with my Keldorn party and I began to realize something. I don’t even bother to buff my party before fights anymore! Keldorn is 22nd level now which puts his dispel magic ability at 44th level. I just take all my fighters and charge any enemy mage that thinks about casting a protective spell and have Keldorn instantly dispel every trace of magic in the area. The enemy mage is then a pile of body chunks faster than he can say “time stop.”

It’s even worse in ToB now that everyone in my group (except Imoen) has boots of speed. Haste was the main buff I hated to lose to Keldorn’s dispel ability in SoA. This tactic is so effective that I don’t even bother to memorize breach or pierce magic anymore. With Keldorn’s ability, I can drop any mage faster than the casting time for either of these spells (unless they’re triggered of couse).

Anyway, I just think that this ability totally destroys the need for mage vs. mage combat.

Saruman · Post by **Saruman** » Mon Jul 02, 2001 9:05 am

I was of the belief that many of the combat and spell protections were not subject to a simple dispel magic... therefore breach and pirce magic are neccesary to eliminate such protections before either the warriors can give the gribbly a good hiding or they mages can kill it in other ways.

Further to this a dispel magic affects a large area thus dispelling your own parties protections and spell effects whereas breach and pierce both only effect the targetted nasty.

Tharan · Post by **Tharan** » Mon Jul 02, 2001 10:37 am

Yes sure they dispel your buffs, but what he is saying is that he does not even bother to buff his party anymore becaue its useless to do so. Cause your party hand to hand is going to be stronger then any other basically. You have more potions and such. So all you do is hit dispel magic with your unbelivably cheap Inqusitor and that's it the evil mage or whoever is dead!
Yes I do agree Inquisitor is too powerfull, not only that he has true sight also!! WTF, who need powergamers if you have Inqusitor with Holy Avenger which + some couple of Other Items put to an unbelivable Magic Resistants.That completly kill some of the classes in BG2. Ah hell maybe its just my opinion, but I think a lot of people will agree with me.

Raghnall · Post by **Raghnall** » Mon Jul 02, 2001 12:57 pm

Well...thats what Inquisitor is suppose to do. He destroys evil mages. So he got to be a badass son of a bitch to do that. If you don't like it go to Russia.
p.s. I play an Inquisitor, and he is a room clearing badass. Lichs, mind flayers, and dragons beware, I will slay your dollar store monkey ass.

45th Parallel · Post by **45th Parallel** » Mon Jul 02, 2001 1:06 pm

As I understand it, dispel magic can work on any spell. It’s just that it doesn’t have a 100% chance of doing so. IIRC, it’s a contest of levels between you (the person dispelling) and the opposing mage who cast the spell. If you are both equal level, then you have a 50% chance to dispel. I’m not totally sure about the exact percentage, but I think for every level you are above the opposing mage you get +5% to your roll.

This is what makes the Inquisitor dispel so powerful, because he can cast dispel magic at double his level. If you can beat the opposing mage by 10 levels, you have a 100% chance of dispelling. If you think about it, Keldorn at 30th level could dispel a 50th level mage’s spells with 100% certainty. At this point (22nd level) I have yet to see any spell survive a dispel from Keldorn. Not to mention that the dispel ability is instantaneous, while the dispel magic spell has a fair casting time.

Your right that if you use the tactics I described and charge the mage with all your fighters, you will indeed loose all your buffs. That’s why I didn’t really use the Inquisitor abilities all that much in SoA. But now in ToB, all my fighters have boots of speed and good resistances due to armor and items, not to mentions special abilities. All of which cannot be dispelled.

Tharan – you are so right. As if the dispel ability wasn’t enough, they throw in true seeing and a sword that give 50% magic resistance. Basically, Inquisitors are almost immune to magic, and they can dispel all magic with 100% certainty. Now that I’ve played Keldorn to this point, I can truly see how unbalanced Inquisitors are.

Daniel · Post by **Daniel** » Mon Jul 02, 2001 1:23 pm

well, from origin, Inquistors were (katholic) people who hunted people with other religions and killed them... Glad Keldorn will never do such things...

45th Parallel · Post by **45th Parallel** » Mon Jul 02, 2001 1:30 pm

Don’t get me wrong. I realize that the whole “wizard killer” idea is in character for an Inquisitor. I just think they are a little broken from a pure gameplay standpoint. I just feel like I’m just walking through fights that are supposed to be really hard. I certainly haven’t reloaded nearly as much as I did in SoA.

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Mon Jul 02, 2001 3:54 pm

All fights are pretty easy if you have the right party for the job.

Nothing can beat a Mage or Sorcerer with time on his hands...

fable · Post by **fable** » Mon Jul 02, 2001 4:27 pm

...And conversely, any party can present a real challenge if you set the difficulty all the way up, and give yourself several rules: no potions, no wands, etc. Do that from the start, and you'll find SoA/ToB a greater challenge.

Tharan · Post by **Tharan** » Tue Jul 03, 2001 8:19 am

Ok Raghall, Inquisitors are too overpowered up the ass. How can you be a bad ass sob if you are just overpowered! You can't cause you are too cheap. Now if can go through the game as a beast master then you are a bad ass sob.
No Inquisitors are too powerfull. At about Middle (YES MIDDLE OR EVEN ERLIER) of the game you are almost immune to magic, have one of the best weapons in a game, dispel magic that renders any mage in the game useless, true sight (instanteneous I think), and you can fight!! And what ban does the bastard havE!! Couple of useless paladin abilities!
Screw that Inquisitor is too powerfull and makes the game retarted and as for Russia I am from Ukraine! Get your geography straight!

Tharan · Post by **Tharan** » Tue Jul 03, 2001 8:22 am

And yea, Parallel (sorry for the spelling). You're only playing with keldorn, Imagine a player made character or something. It'll be a god or something.
Also Paladins get Crazy savings throws. So If any magic does accidently get through, the Inquisitor will probably save vs the thing. Also it completly wipes out clases like the Wizard Slayer ( who need him when you have a god character!)

beaver_cheese · Post by **beaver_cheese** » Tue Jul 03, 2001 8:27 am

I believe there are ways for mages to defeat inquisitors, but you'll need to properly script their battle plans.

45th Parallel · Post by **45th Parallel** » Tue Jul 03, 2001 9:21 am

I guess it’s possible for a mage to beat an Inquisitor. About the only way I could see it happening is with the time stop/improved alacrity combo. Even then, you would have to drop the Inquisitor’s MR by a lot to even hope to have an effect (even then Pally’s still have good saves).

However, I just don’t see how a mage would be able get a time stop off in the first place. Since time stop can’t be sequenced (as far as I know anyway), the mage’s contingency defenses would have to be in effect for the entire casting time. But those would be instantly dropped with 100% certainty by the dispel ability. Then it’s just hack n’ slash at that point. Unless the Inquisitor gets 2 or 3 critical misses in a row, I don’t see how the mage could pull off a time stop without being interrupted.

Hmm, maybe Inquisitors seem so powerful because all the “tough” fights in the game are focused around enemy magic users rather than really big mobs with massive hit points and ultra-damaging melee attacks.

Gawayn · Post by **Gawayn** » Tue Jul 03, 2001 9:50 am

How come Keldorn always dies in my party? His AC sucks ass. He gets beaten to a bloody pulp by most powerful melee's. And you people have to remembe that not everyone who plays the game gets the super powerful paladin weapons. I have him dualwielding Foe-Bane and angurvedal, and he can dish out damage, but he certainly cannot take it.

I never tried his dispel magic ability in all honesty, and I get by just fine. I have 2 mages who vuln the other mages and have my melees hack them up.

I guess a main character inquisitor could be very cheesy, though.

G

glory · Post by **glory** » Tue Jul 03, 2001 9:57 am

Gawayn...you clearly stated the reason Keldorn sucks in "your" party. His original AC sucks but in order to make him a bad sob you will need to have his equip the gauntlets of dexterity, holy avenger, red dragon scale, ring or gaxx (since scale is now enchanted), ring of regenration or free action, an AC helmet,boots of speed and the amulet of spell warding. There now you have a monster inquisitor on your hands.

[ 07-03-2001: Message edited by: glory ]

45th Parallel · Post by **45th Parallel** » Tue Jul 03, 2001 11:14 am

Yeah, Keldorn is pretty lousy stat wise. You have to give him the gauntlets of dex or he’s worthless as a front line fighter.

However, his dispel magic ability still works better than any mage spell at downing protective spells. Heck, even if you stick him in the back of the group and let him fire crossbow bolts all day, he’d still be the most valuable group member with his instantly remove all traces of magic ability (not to mention true sight).

Actually, having him around makes Imoen (or any mage) much better as well. You don’t have to waste mem slots on breach, pierce magic, pierce shield, etc, etc. Now I just have Imoen memorize all damaging spells (triple sequenced flame arrows or chain lightnings are fun).

cheesemage · Post by **cheesemage** » Tue Jul 03, 2001 11:17 am

dont forget abi-dazims

Meerlight · Post by **Meerlight** » Tue Jul 03, 2001 11:50 am

Having Dispel Magic in ToB is not as worthwhile as it was in SoA because most of the really tough fights deal with Melee monsters instead of Magic users. Fire Giants deal massive damge and don't use magic. Dragons you can weaken a little bit with Dispel but they still can mop the floor with you if you aren't prepared! There are mainly hordes of medium power enemies all over the place or a few Powerful enemies that deal out tremendous damage. Well if you think that Inquisitors are too powerful you should ask someone or make a patch that puts a cap on the Dispel Ability Level to weaken it so that it works maybe 50% of the time.

Tharan · Post by **Tharan** » Tue Jul 03, 2001 12:26 pm

You fight in Mellee yes in ToB, but again, your melee should be able take out any melee thrown by the game. Come on now you have more potions and more powerfull weapons.
Now look at some of the fights in ToB. Draconis for example. BAM hit him with dispell. Oh well time to just own him now. Or any other mage. And anyway when the hell did Paladins learn to do magic spells in the first place ( Dispel/True Sight).I thought the Inquisitor was suppose to dislike magic. It's just unfair to the Wizard Slayer to have these guys. I mean damn the fight with Irenicus was a push over with an Inquisitor in your party. Its like
"Oh what prety protections" WHACK dispell everything.
Sorry for all the Inquisitor fans out there but those guys are too powerfull they nullify mages and thiefs to nothing. Leaving them to fight Fighters, while wielding Carsomyr +6 with 2 dots on two handed style. Or if they don't like Carsomyr they can dual wield Foebane and Purifier. Come on even the fighers will fall down to Paladins from time to time.
But hell maybe I am going a bit overboard.
If you disagree with me say something that will change my mind. And if you agree with me add some stuff that I could of missed.

yaanathn · Post by **yaanathn** » Tue Jul 03, 2001 12:51 pm

I don't know, fellas, I imagine a mage standing a pretty good chance against any melee. Dispel, I admit, is an awesome ability (I love Keldorn for it), but it affects buffs and debuffs. A mage, even without his spells sequenced, triggered, or what have you, can still dish out massive amounts of damage, especially with magic missile, which he can cast many times as it is a level one spell. Also, a mage can summon up to five creatures to fight for him, and although I have not played into my copy of Throne of Bhaal yet (going to completely run through Shadows of Amn first), I hear that mages get very decent summons.

In a fight, a group with one smart mage will have that mage cast multitudes of fireballs, sunstrikes, other AE uber spells, making it easier for his party's melees to wipe the floor with yours, and even if your inquisitor has got enough resist to survive all that, how much chance does an inquisitor have in a melee battle again multiple enemies?

I'm not saying a mage is the most important character in a party or anything like that, but I'm saying that an inquisitor is not the end of the world, despite his fantastic skills. In my experience, I find myself casting fireballs and, acid arrows, and magic missiles much more often than I dispel with Keldorn (right now, he only has four to use, anyway, and I absolutely refuse to rest unless totally needed. I beat Amn the first time in just barely over a month).

Perhaps that's just me.

- Jon