I'm a newbie at this game and wanted some advice on allocating points to the ability scores during character creation.
What is the bare minimum score in each ability that can allow each class maximum access to the skills, spells, or feats tied to each ability? I'm asking this question since there is only a limited number of points one can allocate to each ability, and I don't want to allocate more points to any one ability than I need to.
For instance, in IWD 1, there was no sense in allocating more than 16 points to constitution of the non-fighter classes, since these classes were limited to a +2 modifier on their max hit points allowed per level, no matter how high above 16 their CON was.
Any advice would be most welcome.
Minimum ability scores
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bariumdose
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One critical thing is to invest in wisdom for your clerics and druids. I think a cleric needs a wisdom of 10 points more than the level of spell he wants to cast. So a wisdom of 17 means he can eventually cast level 7 spells. There is a challenge room below a monastery where a powerful cleric is very useful.
There is not much point in a dexterity of more than 12 for fighters, since that gives a modifier of 1, usable with heavy armors. A higher dex will access feats like dodge, however.
I don't think I can go through all abilities, but those are a couple of points, anyway.
There is not much point in a dexterity of more than 12 for fighters, since that gives a modifier of 1, usable with heavy armors. A higher dex will access feats like dodge, however.
I don't think I can go through all abilities, but those are a couple of points, anyway.
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin
[QUOTE=Sparrow]One critical thing is to invest in wisdom for your clerics and druids. I think a cleric needs a wisdom of 10 points more than the level of spell he wants to cast. [/QUOTE]
The same applies to the following classes
Sorcerers and Bards rely on Charisma
Mages rely on Intelligence
Rangers and Paladins also need Wisdom
The same applies to the following classes
Sorcerers and Bards rely on Charisma
Mages rely on Intelligence
Rangers and Paladins also need Wisdom
i always give my fighters decent strength and constitution in favour of the other abilities, then mages i try to give as much intelligence and dexterity as i can (as they wear no armour so dexterity is good as it boosts their armour class). i usually give a thief good dexterity and clerics you need good wisdom and decent charisma (if you want to use things like turn undead).
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bariumdose
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Thank you Everyone for Ability Score Advice
Hey, thanks, guys, for the assist. Just so that I understand correctly, does everyone agree with Sparrow's statements on the investment in wisdom for clerics and druids (similar advice would apply to intelligence for mages, charisma for sorcerers, paladins, and bards, and wisdom for rangers and paladins), i.e. in order to access each level of spells, I would need to invest X points + 10 to be able to access the Xth level of spells?
My question is important to me because I noticed that paladins can only access up to level 6 spells, which would imply that paladins don't need more than a 16 in wisdom.
Also, thank you, Sparrow, for the advice on the DEX minimum. I forgot that the DEX modifier bonus is limited if your fighters are wearing heavier armor. Anybody else have differing thoughts on DEX score minimums/maximums?
[QUOTE=Sparrow]One critical thing is to invest in wisdom for your clerics and druids. I think a cleric needs a wisdom of 10 points more than the level of spell he wants to cast. So a wisdom of 17 means he can eventually cast level 7 spells. There is a challenge room below a monastery where a powerful cleric is very useful.
There is not much point in a dexterity of more than 12 for fighters, since that gives a modifier of 1, usable with heavy armors. A higher dex will access feats like dodge, however.
I don't think I can go through all abilities, but those are a couple of points, anyway.[/QUOTE]
Hey, thanks, guys, for the assist. Just so that I understand correctly, does everyone agree with Sparrow's statements on the investment in wisdom for clerics and druids (similar advice would apply to intelligence for mages, charisma for sorcerers, paladins, and bards, and wisdom for rangers and paladins), i.e. in order to access each level of spells, I would need to invest X points + 10 to be able to access the Xth level of spells?
My question is important to me because I noticed that paladins can only access up to level 6 spells, which would imply that paladins don't need more than a 16 in wisdom.
Also, thank you, Sparrow, for the advice on the DEX minimum. I forgot that the DEX modifier bonus is limited if your fighters are wearing heavier armor. Anybody else have differing thoughts on DEX score minimums/maximums?
[QUOTE=Sparrow]One critical thing is to invest in wisdom for your clerics and druids. I think a cleric needs a wisdom of 10 points more than the level of spell he wants to cast. So a wisdom of 17 means he can eventually cast level 7 spells. There is a challenge room below a monastery where a powerful cleric is very useful.
There is not much point in a dexterity of more than 12 for fighters, since that gives a modifier of 1, usable with heavy armors. A higher dex will access feats like dodge, however.
I don't think I can go through all abilities, but those are a couple of points, anyway.[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't care all that much about using a paladin as a spellcaster, they only get a few spells. Charisma is what you want with paladins, because it modifies a lot of their traits, like saving throws.
If you start a paladin at wisdom 13, you can add 1 point later. Then, he gets a permanent 1 point boost in wisdom when he finds the Cera Sumat Holy Avenger sword. Add a wisdom ring, and that brings him to wisdom 16, enough to cast level 6 spells, the max for paladins.
If you start a paladin at wisdom 13, you can add 1 point later. Then, he gets a permanent 1 point boost in wisdom when he finds the Cera Sumat Holy Avenger sword. Add a wisdom ring, and that brings him to wisdom 16, enough to cast level 6 spells, the max for paladins.
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin
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bariumdose
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Yeah, I definitely agree with you on the importance of charisma with regardto paladins. I love paladins!
Oooh, you just disclosed a spoiler to me! Arrgh! J/k! I appreciate the advice though regarding the paladin. But can't shouldn't you start the paladin at a wisdom even lower than 13 because you can add more points later as you level up? (I'm reading the ability score increase table in the manual.)
[QUOTE=Sparrow]I wouldn't care all that much about using a paladin as a spellcaster, they only get a few spells. Charisma is what you want with paladins, because it modifies a lot of their traits, like saving throws.
If you start a paladin at wisdom 13, you can add 1 point later. Then, he gets a permanent 1 point boost in wisdom when he finds the Cera Sumat Holy Avenger sword. Add a wisdom ring, and that brings him to wisdom 16, enough to cast level 6 spells, the max for paladins.[/QUOTE]
Oooh, you just disclosed a spoiler to me! Arrgh! J/k! I appreciate the advice though regarding the paladin. But can't shouldn't you start the paladin at a wisdom even lower than 13 because you can add more points later as you level up? (I'm reading the ability score increase table in the manual.)
[QUOTE=Sparrow]I wouldn't care all that much about using a paladin as a spellcaster, they only get a few spells. Charisma is what you want with paladins, because it modifies a lot of their traits, like saving throws.
If you start a paladin at wisdom 13, you can add 1 point later. Then, he gets a permanent 1 point boost in wisdom when he finds the Cera Sumat Holy Avenger sword. Add a wisdom ring, and that brings him to wisdom 16, enough to cast level 6 spells, the max for paladins.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, that might be a good idea, it would let you give him more initial strength. Paladins function as front line fighters, and ability to hit is based on strength. Wisdom may modify something else for paladins though, but I can't remember if it does or not. You could go either way with it.
Hmmm, sorry about the spoiler.
Hmmm, sorry about the spoiler.
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin
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silverdragon72
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[QUOTE=bariumdose]For instance, in IWD 1, there was no sense in allocating more than 16 points to constitution of the non-fighter classes, since these classes were limited to a +2 modifier on their max hit points allowed per level, no matter how high above 16 their CON was.
Any advice would be most welcome.[/QUOTE]
...there are no capped modifiers in IWD2!
so if you manage to get for example WIS 36 (what btw. is possible) you get the full bonus!
...so it definetly makes sense to max the primary stat of some classes!
CHA -> Sorc & PAL
WIS -> Monk, Cleric & Druid
INT -> Wiz
.
Any advice would be most welcome.[/QUOTE]
...there are no capped modifiers in IWD2!
so if you manage to get for example WIS 36 (what btw. is possible) you get the full bonus!
...so it definetly makes sense to max the primary stat of some classes!
CHA -> Sorc & PAL
WIS -> Monk, Cleric & Druid
INT -> Wiz
.
some benefit of dexterity to warriors.
high dexterity isn't bad for some types of warriors. If they are going to be in light or medium armor (for example) they can benefit from the AC. Some of the better armors are light although the weidu mod fixes this.
dexterity is needed for AC tank builds to pick up dodge ability and to supplement AC.
Also later in the game you might use summons to be the melee force and use your tank as a combat reserve and have him throw/shoot weapons (to save on healing/stoneskin). He can always jump in and melee after the enemy has 'locked in' on targets that are expendable (like undead). That way he keeps safe. I mention that since dexterity helps the 'to hit' ability of missile weapons.
Finally, I like a guy with 3 rogue levels in light armor as a warrior. He can deliver 2d6 backstab damage and has evasion. This guy should have higher than average dexterity to make the reflex saves.
myrophine
high dexterity isn't bad for some types of warriors. If they are going to be in light or medium armor (for example) they can benefit from the AC. Some of the better armors are light although the weidu mod fixes this.
dexterity is needed for AC tank builds to pick up dodge ability and to supplement AC.
Also later in the game you might use summons to be the melee force and use your tank as a combat reserve and have him throw/shoot weapons (to save on healing/stoneskin). He can always jump in and melee after the enemy has 'locked in' on targets that are expendable (like undead). That way he keeps safe. I mention that since dexterity helps the 'to hit' ability of missile weapons.
Finally, I like a guy with 3 rogue levels in light armor as a warrior. He can deliver 2d6 backstab damage and has evasion. This guy should have higher than average dexterity to make the reflex saves.
myrophine
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krunchyfrogg
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When min/maxxing ability scores, keep in mind that you can drop intelligence on any character that you dont really need skills with. Most of the time, this applies to paladins, fighters, barbarians, sorcerers, clerics, druids and monks. charisma is similar: if a guy isnt gunna talk to anybody, or isnt a bard, paladin, or sorcerer, charisma doesnt really matter.
stats climb only at EVEN intervals. a 13 is as good as a 12. of course, you can improve a stat every 4 levels, so odd stats do count for something.
dexterity doesnt help as much on guys wearing heavy armor as it did in 2ed rules. in IWD1, for example, an 18 dexterity gave a -4 bonus to armor class, even in plate mail. in IWD2, an 18 dexterity will still help you on reflex saving throws and help you 'to hit' enemies with missile weapons or finnessed weapons, but wont help your armor class at all.
constitution bonuses are not capped. an 18 constitution helps a wizard just as much, if not MORE, than a fighter.
stats climb only at EVEN intervals. a 13 is as good as a 12. of course, you can improve a stat every 4 levels, so odd stats do count for something.
dexterity doesnt help as much on guys wearing heavy armor as it did in 2ed rules. in IWD1, for example, an 18 dexterity gave a -4 bonus to armor class, even in plate mail. in IWD2, an 18 dexterity will still help you on reflex saving throws and help you 'to hit' enemies with missile weapons or finnessed weapons, but wont help your armor class at all.
constitution bonuses are not capped. an 18 constitution helps a wizard just as much, if not MORE, than a fighter.
A life is not important, except in the impact it has on other lives.
- Jackie Robinson
- Jackie Robinson
I proudly play 4 characters that have IQ's of 3. You would think that they would shoot themselves in the foot with such intelligence- but they don't! It doesn't seem to bother them at all. It might bother me, if I was a strict role player, but I'm more of a powergamer.
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin
regarding plate armor and dexterity:
truly you don't get the bonus of the dex. So don't worry about dex if your gonna wear plate.
on the other hand:
plate isn't good in IWD2! Although in the modded game you get a decent set of medium armor early on that you might wear for a long time. That set of armor is better than most of the heavy armor.
Wear plate only if your dex sux anyways. Heavy armor spoils the reflex save bonus, special abilities (evasion, increase movement, etc), bonus to skills (or disables them completely). Especially consider this if you are going to use a lot of cat's grace (i like lots of casters especially sorceror). Cats Grace might last beyond when you have rested with a high level caster!
And don't let your dex get sucky for no good reason. Fighters and Barbs should hose int and charisma (intimidate will still be high enough especially with bullheaded feat) so you can still have dex. Still some classes need so many stats to be good that they might not have dex (paladins).
myrophine
PS - only give dodge to a char if they need it or if they have nothing better to do with their feats. For example: does a caster of Mirror Image who needs spellcaster feats really need AC? Maybe they do in some cases but probably not for a pure caster.
truly you don't get the bonus of the dex. So don't worry about dex if your gonna wear plate.
on the other hand:
plate isn't good in IWD2! Although in the modded game you get a decent set of medium armor early on that you might wear for a long time. That set of armor is better than most of the heavy armor.
Wear plate only if your dex sux anyways. Heavy armor spoils the reflex save bonus, special abilities (evasion, increase movement, etc), bonus to skills (or disables them completely). Especially consider this if you are going to use a lot of cat's grace (i like lots of casters especially sorceror). Cats Grace might last beyond when you have rested with a high level caster!
And don't let your dex get sucky for no good reason. Fighters and Barbs should hose int and charisma (intimidate will still be high enough especially with bullheaded feat) so you can still have dex. Still some classes need so many stats to be good that they might not have dex (paladins).
myrophine
PS - only give dodge to a char if they need it or if they have nothing better to do with their feats. For example: does a caster of Mirror Image who needs spellcaster feats really need AC? Maybe they do in some cases but probably not for a pure caster.