Melee Weapons Question

[Obike Fixx]

Hey

I've been through most weapons types in the game - except for Melee, don't know why.
Thus I decided that it was time to try my luck with some thorough ass kicking hand-to-hand weapons.
So far it's going ok, however I'm *VERY* bored with the super sledge which I made sure to get early on. Can it really be that the designers chose to make melee the only class that didn't get a new "best weapon" in this sequal? Or am I missing something?
I know there is a katana/wakazachi to be found around the area of San Fransisco, but is it better/cooler?

So, anyway, my question boils down to this; Is the Super Sledge Hammer the only viable option for a melee character.

Oh, and when exactly is it enemies start fleeing at the sight of you with unarmed? As I remember it, 300%... Is that correct?

[Andrey]

You can take Ripper for meele weapon. Or Super Cattle Prod,but i dont think they are strong as Super Sledge.You have Mega Power Fist with unarmed.
And there is Louisville Slugger,but I never used it since I never found it.

I like pounding heads with Crowbar

[Kipi]

Well, this is actually a matter of taste. I've inculded few things to consider when thinking of melee weapon:

1) Sledge Hammer, and especially Super Sledge Hammer, has very big range how far it will push the target. At times, this is very usefull, especially if the opponent is also using melee or unarmed fighting style, since then it's forced to use some of it's AP to reach you again. The bad thing in this is, that if the NPC decides to flee, it gains some advantage when it has already been throw quite long way already. Also, if it uses ranged weapon, then YOU are the one who has to use some AP to reach the target.

2) Super Sledge Hammer (= SSH in future) does a good deal of damage (18-37), while having good range (2). And it only takes 3 AP to use. Of course, the Super Cattle Prod (SCP in future) does more damage (12-42), but only if it does max damage, and it has shorter range (1). And, most importantly, it uses Small Energy Cells, which could be used a lso in car. And SCP takes 4 AP to use, but then, it doesn't throw opponent so far away as SSH.

3) The suldger, mentioned by Andrey, is far forse, does less damage than either of these two weapons, while having short range (1).

4) If using weak character (low strength), then it's totally new situation. SCP needs only STR 4 to use, while SSH needs 5, making SCP usefull for weaker characters. Again, IMO sludger is out of question.

I didn't include Unarmed weapons to this pondering, the reason is that the only weapon that could actually compete with SSH or SCP is Mega Power Fist, making a bit more damage than SSH but bit less than SCP, but it has range only 1, and it uses also those Small Energy Cells, so why use it when you could use SCP? Of course, Mega Power Fist only requires STR 1, but with that STR, it's almost suicide to actually fight with unarmed/melee weapons.

Hope this helps a bit

[Luis Antonio]

The good thing about melee characters is the Slayer perk. With it you skip luck rolls, and always hit criticals - therefore you can cripple enemies with one strike, kill them instantly or knock them down, which makes melee characters unstopable.

I had the same disapointment you have with the sledgehammer - I think they're good for combat but rather pointless. When you pin down an enemy on an corner with the hammer you get tons of satisfaction BUT...

I've always attempted melee players so:

Advantages on the last fight (example)

There's one of the boss parts that if hit will render him stunned.
You can use the fists/melee weapon once and then a laser weapon, stunning and delivering tons of damage.
His melee weapon is rather worst than his ranged weapon.

Advantages through the game:

ANY melee weapon will do critical damage. So, after picking up Slayer, you can just choose to whack everyone down with a crowbar, or one of those sticks that are thrown at you at the first temple. You'll have tons of trouble but you can finally kill everyone with any weapon, what doesnt happens with ranged weapons even with the sniper perk.

Also, I think it is rather cool to roleplay. A dumb character with high strenght and perception and luck and very low charisma will not be able to talk, but may take out vault city guards single handedly even before reaching slayer perk with a cattle prod.

BTW, I never seen such thing as a Super Cattle Prod, is that really in game?

For those who like to change I recomend:

- Try killing aliens with the wakisashis or the combat knife.
- Try hitting enemies ONLY in the head, going away when they get uncounscious
- Try the mega power fist. (I wonder why there's no mega power boot).
- Defeat the last enemy with the Brass Knuckles and a ranged weapon (I did it, it was hard, I tell you, when the weapon was not energy weapon).

[Kipi]

The good thing about melee characters is the Slayer perk. With it you skip luck rolls, and always hit criticals - therefore you can cripple enemies with one strike, kill them instantly or knock them down, which makes melee characters unstopable.

I had the same disapointment you have with the sledgehammer - I think they're good for combat but rather pointless. When you pin down an enemy on an corner with the hammer you get tons of satisfaction BUT...

I've always attempted melee players so:

Advantages on the last fight (example)

There's one of the boss parts that if hit will render him stunned.
You can use the fists/melee weapon once and then a laser weapon, stunning and delivering tons of damage.
His melee weapon is rather worst than his ranged weapon.

Advantages through the game:

ANY melee weapon will do critical damage. So, after picking up Slayer, you can just choose to whack everyone down with a crowbar, or one of those sticks that are thrown at you at the first temple. You'll have tons of trouble but you can finally kill everyone with any weapon, what doesnt happens with ranged weapons even with the sniper perk.

Yes, that's true. But I left perks and such out when making that comparing, since it's not quaranteed that someone is willing/able to get them.
And isn't it actually quite boring to be able to kill everybody with crowbar? Of course, you mus reach the opponent first, but later in the game it's not big problem, if you Action Boy, Bonus Move and such perks and you are using good armor, ie Advanced Power Armor or Advanced Power Armor MKII.

BTW, I never seen such thing as a Super Cattle Prod, is that really in game?

As far as I remember, it's quite hard to get, but unfortunately I can remember right now how.
And if there isn't one, and I remember wrong, then we have one reason to NOT believe GB anymore, since SCP is listen in Fallout 2 -section of GB

For those who like to change I recomend:

- Try killing aliens with the wakisashis or the combat knife.
- Try hitting enemies ONLY in the head, going away when they get uncounscious
- Try the mega power fist. (I wonder why there's no mega power boot).
- Defeat the last enemy with the Brass Knuckles and a ranged weapon (I did it, it was hard, I tell you, when the weapon was not energy weapon).

Those are quite good things to try out, but I would exclude the Mega Power Fist out from that list, since it's quite close to SCP, only slightly lower damage.
But if one wants a real challenge, then try the last think, but replace the Brass Knuckles with Boxing Gloves or Plated Boxing Gloves

[Obike Fixx]

Merci

Thanks for the advice, guys. I'll have a look at the cattle prod.
Btw, anybody know of some specific place I can get the wakazachi (sp?)?

[Kipi]

[QUOTE=Obike Fixx]Thanks for the advice, guys. I'll have a look at the cattle prod.
Btw, anybody know of some specific place I can get the wakazachi (sp?)?[/QUOTE]
This is not 100% sure, becuase I'm not posting at home, but I remember that you can get those in SF or from random encounter near it.

[Andrey]

Wakizashi Blade is easy to get.You can find it by traveling around New Reno.When you encounter yakuza fighters everyone of them has it.

Also, Super Cattle Prod can be found on Enclave and San Francisco.Maybe even in SF BOS building.

EDIT: For ultimate challenge, try beating Frankie with Spikes that Carnivores plants throw.

[Kipi]

Wakizashi Blade is easy to get.You can find it by traveling around New Reno.When you encounter yakuza fighters everyone of them has it.

Weren't you able to have those encounters near SF too??
Have to check that one when I get home...

EDIT: For ultimate challenge, try beating Frankie with Spikes that Carnivores plants throw.

But those are ranged weapons, not melee

[Andrey]

No Wakizashi encounters near SF

Ok, then how about using Rock?

[lellebror_erik]

Wakizashi Blade is found near NR, and the SCP can be gained from Al in NR(he is in the basement of New Reno Arms for those who dont know).

[Nekasrof]

Originally posted by Kipi:

"Of course, Mega Power Fist only requires STR 1, but with that STR, it's almost suicide to actually fight with unarmed/melee weapons."

I would just like to say, "Wrong." 1 strength is a perfectly viable and very valuable strategy for an unarmed fighter. I could explain why, in detail, but I won't, unless pressed farther.

Just know that 1 strength + unarmed = kill everything in fallout 2.

As for the Super Cattle Prod... I didn't know about it either, and I thought that I had brought everything to Al

P.S. If you have low intelligence, forget Al right now. I mean, go talk to him.

[Kipi]

[QUOTE=Nekasrof]Originally posted by Kipi:

"Of course, Mega Power Fist only requires STR 1, but with that STR, it's almost suicide to actually fight with unarmed/melee weapons."

I would just like to say, "Wrong." 1 strength is a perfectly viable and very valuable strategy for an unarmed fighter. I could explain why, in detail, but I won't, unless pressed farther.

Just know that 1 strength + unarmed = kill everything in fallout 2.

As for the Super Cattle Prod... I didn't know about it either, and I thought that I had brought everything to Al

P.S. If you have low intelligence, forget Al right now. I mean, go talk to him.[/QUOTE]
Actually, I would be very interested in hearing your theory about STR 1

[Nekasrof]

"Actually, I would be very interested in hearing your theory about STR 1 "

Yay!

First, we must get rid of three assumptions:

Assumption 1: The Gifted trait is the best trait ever and I love it. - Wrong! If you want your STR to be 1, forget about this trait.

Assumption 2: If my strength is 1, I won't be able to get the perk Slayer, which has a strength req of 8. Sorry, but you can get it with power armor and buffout, no need to waste perks (or valuable starting stat points)
to boost your strength.

Assumption 3: The amount of damage I deal with hand-to-hand attacks actually matters. Sorry, it really doesn't. You cripple them, you blind them, you knock them unconcious... whatever it takes. And when you get the Mega-power fist, your minimum damage will be the same as everyone elses, but high strength chars will have a few points higher on their max. What, maybe 10 or 12 points higher? Not significant, especially when you are getting critical hits all day long.


Also note: I have chosen the Traits One Hander and Skilled. One Hander adds +3 to all damage with my fists (it doesn't seem to work for comabat knives and other melee weapons), so I deal 4-6 damage, even though my damage listed is 1-3. That makes up for the melee damage I might be losing in the early game. In late game, the damage from strength does not matter at all.

I am currently play testing this model, so here is what she looks like for stats, etc. (I had a level 21 with the same build, but she was deleted when I upgraded to a new computer).

Level 16
Hit Points = 141
ST 1
PE 7
EN 10
CH 1
IN 10
AG 10
LK 3 (+2 from Hubologist)

Skills:
Unarmed = 234
Doctor = 95
Sneak = 111
Lockpick = 45
Steal = 90
Speech = 65

Damage with Mega-Power Fist = 20-41

AC = minimum of 49 with combat armor and HtH evade.

This particular build poses some challenges, but I have been able to overcome all of them so far.

I plan to put the skill points from my next 2 levels into Steal. I get 30 skill points a level, so that will boost it up to 90%. All of my skill after that will be poured into unarmed, until it is 285%. Then I will go talk to Mr. Sutton in Klamath and make it 295%, and practice at the punching bag to make it 300%. I know this is possible because I did it with my previous character.

The key strategy when fighting humans is to sneak up on them, steal their ammunition (not their weapons) and then punch the crap out of them. Going for head shots to knock them unconcious and going for eye shots to blind them and make them run away are vital manuevers.

Once you get a power-fist (many ways to do this), take it to Al, and it becomes a mega-power fist. After this, Aliens and other enemies with high armor will be a cake walk. Your huge hit points and very high AC (from HTH Evade and your massive skill) will let you hang out in combat with the best of them.

I don't plan to raise my Sneak skill any higher, but with the Sneak at 111 and Steal at 90, I can take ammo from soldiers at the enclave base without too much trouble (at least I could with my level 21 character).

I have recently cleared out the raiders at Vault 15 and the raiders that were attacking Vault City without having to reload or leave the battle.

Final note: with my luck at 1 and my skill at 234%, I get critical hits frequently. I would guess an average of 60% of the time when I aim for the eyes. Yeah, it is uncommon to hit someone twice in a row in the eyes and not get a critical, but it does happen.

[Andrey]

I didnt know that about punching bags.Where can you do that?

[Deadalready]

I like the Super Cattle Prod and the Louisville Slugger because unlike the Super Sledge they knock people directly to the ground rather than knock them back, the useful thing about that abilty is using action points on attacking rather than chasing an opponent around.

Additionally it makes the game a little faster, it's funny to watch a person get hit and slide around the ground for the first hundred or so times, but it gets tedious after a few random encounters.

[Nekasrof]

Andrey: there is a punching bag in the Sierra Army Depot (you get the location from the Wright family in New Reno) that you can practice at for +5% to unarmed skill. To my knowledge, thit is the only one.

[Kipi]

First, interesting character

Secondly, I will divide the quote in smaller sections, so commenting/asking is not that confusing

First, we must get rid of three assumptions:

Assumption 1: The Gifted trait is the best trait ever and I love it. - Wrong! If you want your STR to be 1, forget about this trait.

Well, this is rather obvious. Also there is that negative side that your skills drop dramatically when selecting this trait. So, IMO not so good choice, dependless of your character and playing style...

Assumption 2: If my strength is 1, I won't be able to get the perk Slayer, which has a strength req of 8. Sorry, but you can get it with power armor and buffout, no need to waste perks (or valuable starting stat points)
to boost your strength.

Hmmm... idea is good.
How many Buffouts you need to raise your STR to required level?
I do not know since I hardly use drugs in Fallout 2, especially Buffout since it has very high chance to make you addicted.

Assumption 3: The amount of damage I deal with hand-to-hand attacks actually matters. Sorry, it really doesn't. You cripple them, you blind them, you knock them unconcious... whatever it takes. And when you get the Mega-power fist, your minimum damage will be the same as everyone elses, but high strength chars will have a few points higher on their max. What, maybe 10 or 12 points higher? Not significant, especially when you are getting critical hits all day long.

Well, this works very well at the late game, but what about the beginning?
I will return to this topic later in my post

Also note: I have chosen the Traits One Hander and Skilled. One Hander adds +3 to all damage with my fists (it doesn't seem to work for comabat knives and other melee weapons), so I deal 4-6 damage, even though my damage listed is 1-3. That makes up for the melee damage I might be losing in the early game. In late game, the damage from strength does not matter at all.

One Hander is very good choice to your character.
The Skilled trait is a bit more problem. It is good, I do not deny that, but since you can select perks only every 4 levels instead of every 3 levels, it's not that good. Okay, you get more skill points per level, but still...
But it's more of matter of like and playing style.

Level 16
Hit Points = 141
ST 1
PE 7
EN 10
CH 1
IN 10
AG 10
LK 3 (+2 from Hubologist)

This particular build poses some challenges, but I have been able to overcome all of them so far.

I plan to put the skill points from my next 2 levels into Steal. I get 30 skill points a level, so that will boost it up to 90%. All of my skill after that will be poured into unarmed, until it is 285%. Then I will go talk to Mr. Sutton in Klamath and make it 295%, and practice at the punching bag to make it 300%. I know this is possible because I did it with my previous character.

Nothing to comment here, ood choises for stats

The key strategy when fighting humans is to sneak up on them, steal their ammunition (not their weapons) and then punch the crap out of them. Going for head shots to knock them unconcious and going for eye shots to blind them and make them run away are vital manuevers.

Okay, here lies the key, and IMO also the weakness of your strategy:
Stealing has been made very difficult in Fallout 2, especially when trying to do it to bosses or more diffcult NPCs. So, this tactic requires lots of loading, since if you don't success in stealing, you are in big trouble.

Once you get a power-fist (many ways to do this), take it to Al, and it becomes a mega-power fist. After this, Aliens and other enemies with high armor will be a cake walk. Your huge hit points and very high AC (from HTH Evade and your massive skill) will let you hang out in combat with the best of them.

I don't plan to raise my Sneak skill any higher, but with the Sneak at 111 and Steal at 90, I can take ammo from soldiers at the enclave base without too much trouble (at least I could with my level 21 character).

I have recently cleared out the raiders at Vault 15 and the raiders that were attacking Vault City without having to reload or leave the battle.

Final note: with my luck at 1 and my skill at 234%, I get critical hits frequently. I would guess an average of 60% of the time when I aim for the eyes. Yeah, it is uncommon to hit someone twice in a row in the eyes and not get a critical, but it does happen.

Okay, now I get back to the topic of early game.
First, I confess that I haven't tried this myself (I mean, unarmed char with STR 1), but your tactics seems to concentrate on late game only. What about the early game? The first level? If you are using this same tactic in that part also, then I can not honestly see how you have survived, since your tactic seems to base very much in high skills, criticals and MPF.
And, I assume that you while playing you have made some "shortcuts" and got as soon as possible to place where you get MPF, right? This works, but also makes the game "easier" since you have items you actually weren't supposed to have in that stage of game. If you haven't done it that way, but travelled to towns only when you have got their locations in map, then forget what I just said about it

[Nekasrof]

I admit that this is not a character build for the first time player. Hmmm... for example, I never take the perk Awareness because I have played the game so many times, i know roughly the max hit-points of enemies and what weapons they are using by appearence, the sound they make and the damage they deal. Also, I play with combat looks Off, so I am not even told if things are "Unwounded" or "Almost Dead." But Awareness is very, very helpful if you are a new player; I prefer not to use it.

A point of interest: Without Awareness and without Combat Looks On, the game still tells you what weapons your opponents are using when they reload their weapons. Ex: "Caravan Guard reloads H&K CAWS."

I have not been power playing. I recieved my first powerfist for around 12K from a merchant in NCR (got the location from Vault City). And sadly I am still wearing combat armor - it weighs twenty pouunds and I can only carry 50!

Yes, this build relies on having many, many skill points. With intelligence of 10 and Skilled Trait, you recieve 30 every level. Not very hard to get secondary skills to a usable 90% when you get 30 points every level.

As for the begining of the game... I did every quest that I know of, except for getting into the church in the Den (and the subsequent quests). I did not kill the slavers or take on the guards at the church because I thought I couldn't handle the combat. You do have to pick your battles in the early game. You can take on most random encounters, but... if you're opponents are packing guns, it is best to run.

Everything else went as normal. Learn about Vault City from Vic, find Modoc, get a ton of experience for very little combat in Modoc, continue on to vault city and gecko, get a ton of experience in those towns for very little combat.

As for stealing ammunition... It is not needed (I like it for the role-playing element, and I usually don't reload if I was planning on attacking the person anyway).. It is helpful, but your character should be enough of a tank that they can handle punishment.

Example: With sneak at 111% and steal at 90%, I stole the drugs and ammunition from all of the guards in the 3rd level of vault 15 and I only had to reload once. I reloaded because I got to close to Darion (their leader with a flame-thrower) and he alerted everyone before I was done.

One reload for a serious combat advantage? sure!

Last thing - if you knock an opponent on the ground or unconcious, you can spend three AP to loot their body. While you are looting in this way you can see their equiped weapons. You may take them, or, as I do, unload these weapons and take the ammo. This is almost as helpful as stealing. slightly more so because it effectively makes your opponent helpless for 3 AP, slightly less so because you can't do it before combat.

[Nekasrof]

2 buffout will work. Taking more doesn't have any effect anyway.

Buffout = +2 strength. With the +3 strength power armor and two buffout you can get Slayer.