Handwriting on The Wall for Cursive?

[dragon wench]

I don't know about anyone else.. but I find it quite sad that cursive writing is apparently on the decline.

Any further information?
Thoughts?

Handwriting on The Wall for Cursive

Cursive writing, once a cornerstone of American education, is becoming a cultural artifact as computers and the demands of standardized tests squeeze it out of its once lofty position.

Taught for more than 300 years in the United States, cursive has a storied past. But in a number of Michigan schools, it has been reduced to an independent study, an "as-we-have-time" course in second or third grade.

For traditionalists, the demise of cursive is an outrage - the loss of a skill, even an art form. People who print argue that there's no point in wasting students' time to teach a vestigial skill in a computer age. For the educators in the middle, pragmatism wins.

"Handwriting is suffering. We're not practicing as much; there are just so many things we need to do," said Joanne Jacobson, curriculum director at Fraser Public Schools. "Our focus is to make it legible, not beautiful. It (handwriting) is just a tool."

Cursive is fun for kids. At least in the beginning.

Kristie Peterson's second-graders at John F. Kennedy school in Ferndale were still excited about their first cursive lesson - i and t - even after shaking cramped little wrists to complete several rows of each.

"I like the letters because they're fancy. It looks grown up," said Corina English, 7, who is quick to point out she had learned b and q in first grade.

"It means you're smart," said Justin Hammerle, 7, on why he wanted to learn cursive.

But when asked whether they would rather spend time learning cursive or computers, computers had the second-graders' hearts, hands down.

Peterson bristles a little at the notion that writing needs to be graded by neatness and that papers written in cursive should be required in higher grades.

"It's not my philosophy. To me, it's the content that counts, but it does have to be legible."

Legibility, however, depends on the beholder. By the time kids reach high school, most already have developed their own handwriting style. And for some, unless schools can find hours to devote to practice, no single method will improve handwriting.

In Plymouth-Canton Community Schools, curriculum coordinator Penny Joy says she gets a lot more calls asking why cursive is taught at all than calls demanding that more class time be devoted to it.

"Quite honestly, we don't have the time," she said. "Part of me thinks that's sad, but the practical in me says as long as I can remember - even as little girls - we were trying to make our own writing style. The issue of legibility is more important than making our letters the same."

The SAT college-admissions test still requires students, at the end of the test, to copy a few paragraphs saying that the student didn't cheat, says Sandra Riley, spokeswoman for the College Board, which gives the test.

Students are asked to write out the paragraphs, rather than just sign a written statement, so the College Board has a copy of the student's handwriting in case later verification of the student's identity is needed, she says.

One of the most popular reasons given for teaching cursive is speed. But those who really appreciate cursive say they can be a little neurotic about the letters.

"I don't like it to look messy," said Amanda Zaitchik, a high school senior from Livonia, Mich., who won second place in the World Handwriting Contest in July. "If you look at the practicality, it's easier not to teach it. But tradition is a good enough reason to keep going. It's an art in itself."

Jodi Upton

http://essayinfo.com/articles/a11.php

[TonyMontana1638]

With all due respect I hate cursive... I hate how sloppy some people's cursive is and I don't like writing in it myself (other than a signature)... I rue the day I was forced to learn it in second grade when I could've been learning something useful (like physics or algebra ).

[Phreddie]

Personally i never liked cursive, I never could read my print, my cursive was always worse.

All m y elementary school teachers told me that I would have to write in cursive in High school, I have never written in cursive yet, and as far as i knwo never wil have to.

Its almost sad to say that I cant write it any more, I have forgotten quite a few letters in it. that article is like the whistleblower on the lies of America, no one, repeating: NO ONE, uses cursive anymore, except in signatures, its just harder for foreignersot have to learn to different alphabets whent hey come to our country. or atleast thats why i think the main decline is.

[slade]

I think cursive should be brought back again..my brother in his elementary are forced to write everything in cursive however since he has started his written has gotten nicer. I wish schools would also teach kids how to write in Calligraphy...its looks so nice IMO. I like old school writing because I liked the Victorain age...when people use to write letter with cursive writing and seal there letters with wax stamps...is this the right era?

[Phreddie]

[QUOTE=slade]I think cursive should be brought back again..my brother in his elementary are forced to write everything in cursive however since he has started his written has gotten nicer. I wish schools would also teach kids how to write in Calligraphy...its looks so nice IMO. I like old school writing because I liked the Victorain age...when people use to write letter with cursive writing and seal there letters with wax stamps...is this the right era?[/QUOTE]
sure, i want to pay for the price of a wax seal and a stamp... i like the modern era where you can type everythig up and email it.

personally my handwriting has been getting steadily worse since 3rd grade... due to an extreme lack of self confidence, and an extreme laziness, cursive never did anything, sad thing is my best handwriting was in kindergarten....

like i mentrioned there is the dual alphabet being confusing, and now its just not as important with eerything being typed up an emailed, its not like ther is a seperate key board for cursive, all you have to do is high light and change the font... no point in learning the way i see it in my narrow minded world.

[Hill-Shatar]

Currently I print, but it is not exactly printing anymore. I sometimes join two letters together, or will add a few bits and pieces from writing into my printing.

My writing is still legible, but people can rarely read each other's hand writing. I know that I have some problems deciphering some people's wrighting. Not everyone can get loops and curves right, and it is rare that someone can always get the lines exactly over each other. Some people complain that curcive 'c's look like cursive 'r's.

I type, I write, both are neat. My neighbour's child can type, and right, and both are incredibly neat.

But tradition is a good enough reason to keep going. It's an art in itself."

That same ideal, along with the science is witchcraft movement, is what lead to 800 years of dark ages.

[Phreddie]

it was what started the European dark ages, we must remian politically corect, for the arab eas thad dark ages, as did ancient greece, althoghu theirs was fueled by conflict rather than religion.


any way, I type, its legible, i write, my 'd's look like an 'a' and an 'l' but completely seperate. my other letters are just plain ilegible, and my teachers get made at my fours because they look like my 's's, cursive should be revived, but not in a fanatical EVERYONE MUST KNOW IT OR DIE sense, more as a passive aggressive tihng.

[Chimaera182]

I don't write in cursive merely because my handwriting's sloppy enough without adding that to the mix. I sign in cursive, of course. I used to write letters in cursive, but then one year I forgot a few letters of the alphabet, and ever since then, I've not done it. Unlike some of the earlier posts, I don't really have an aversion to cursive writing; I just don't feel like writing indecipherably when it's hard enough making my writing clear enough in print.

[Aegis]

I know one of the first things I will teach my child will be the art of cursive writing. By the looks of it, it won't be done in schools anymore, and I feel it is an ability that should continue to be taught. But, that's my own feelings.

it was what started the European dark ages, we must remian politically corect, for the arab eas thad dark ages, as did ancient greece, althoghu theirs was fueled by conflict rather than religion.

Actually, the reason it is refered to the dark ages is not because of a dominant religion, or a great of warfare, but because of the lack of historical documentation. This was a time period in which print was not quite available (As most books were scribed by monastic orders, the term for it being 'illumination'), so what was available was limited, not only in quantity, but in perspective.

In addition, there was a great lack of proper and formal education which further perpetuated the notion of a 'dark age'. I use the quotations because there is currently a historigraphical movement to remove the concept of the dark age.

[Angelwing]

If I'm writing by hand, it's almost always in cursive. I find it flows much more easily, and comes more naturally to me, as I've been writing in cursive ever since I was first taught it. I have neat handwriting, so it's not a problem for anyone (although my writing is generally smaller than most people would like). Occasionally I'll print, but not often.

[myrophine]

I think that doctors should be required to have decent writing. They can't write for...crud.

myrophine

[C Elegans]

I couldn't care less about the being or not being of cursive in Engllish, or my first language Swedish. In some cultures, for instance in Japan and China, the handwriting is an artform that is connected also to other artforms and to the language itself. Calligraphy and poetry are deeply connected, as is calligraphy, poetry and the painted (or nowadays, sometimes photographed) image. Not so in English. So in my opinion handwriting in English or Swedish is just a waste of time.

[Lestat]

[QUOTE=myrophine]I think that doctors should be required to have decent writing. They can't write for...crud.[/QUOTE]I second that, I had a hell of a time to read my father's notes.

On the other hand, can someone tell me what the difference is between cursive writing and normal handwriting (if there is any)? Is it just some fancier version? And if so, why should it be taught in school?

[Georgi]

I find it depressing that people are so reliant on computers that they don't even bother learning to write anymore. Cursive is faster to write than printing - what do students in lectures do these days when they're trying to take notes? I don't think it has reached the stage yet where they all bring their laptops to take notes on.

What do people do when they don't have computers?!

Re doctors' handwriting, wasn't it historically deliberate to write badly, so that patients couldn't read the notes or copy the prescription or something?

[Fiona]

@Lestat. I think cursive is handwriting and the distinction being drawn is between that and hand printing

@ Georgi. I think you are right about why doctors have proverbially poor handwriting

[Ravager]

I vaguely remembering learning handwriting. We had to write in pencil and the school had a system where you would write on a piece of paper and behind that would be another piece of paper which would have lots of hoizontal lines on. Thus we would learn to write in straight lines and try to get our writing between those lines in size. If we managed to get it right enough, we were given pens to write with as a reward. It was quite the honour at the time.

After Junior school where that was taught, no-one really cared though, as long as writing is recognisable (and for English classes, gramatically correct), that was the important thing.

I don't think the handwriting learning should be completely sscrapped, it's a basis for writing, without that, standards just slip further.

[dj_venom]

I have a personal vendetta against cursive.

Everytime I would use it in class, hand the work up... I'm sorry, I can't read this, do it again. For some reason, I could never write neat with cursive. As such, my marks would drop because they never understood it.

Now, as if that wasn't hard enough, I'm a left hander. Now, as most lefties know, when writing, especially with a lead pencil, you smudge it and end up with most of it on your hand. So my problems now doubled, and the writing, well, let's just say it wasn't called writing.

Then finally I was allowed to print again. Oh that was a glorious day, not only was I able to read my own writing, but I was able to only have to write things once.

Though I'm still messy now (and always will be) I'm just happy that my writing is legible.

And with my life story out of the way , I say let the kids learn it if they want, encourage them to learn it, but never force them into it. By all mean, teach it as part of the curriculm, but if a kid cannot do it neatly, then don't make him do it.

[Lestat]

[QUOTE=Fiona]@Lestat. I think cursive is handwriting and the distinction being drawn is between that and hand printing

@ Georgi. I think you are right about why doctors have proverbially poor handwriting[/QUOTE]
Now I went to this site and I saw what letters are presented as "cursive". These are indeed the letters we learned to write by hand, but nobody afterwards obliged us to continue this exact format and mixing in "print"-like letters didn't get you any comments once you passed say 10 years old, as long as it was legible. And now I have even some distinct letters in my handwriting which are neither the one nor the other, which I share with my sister only (like our k). So basically, I don't see what the fuzz is about. Everyone develops their own handwriting from what their taught, what they read and whatever, and if it's not legible, well you will only have yourself to blame if a teacher or professor doesn't give you any marks because he can't read your handwriting.

And Georgi & Fiona, for doctors, I don't think so. Even notes as "Mum and I are out for the evening" took often about 5 minutes to decrypt... I think it has more to do with having to write a lot, but never more than a few words at the time and never real phrases and so words turn into sigils. I think for the same reason people that have to put their signature a lot, have often very short signatures in which you don't really recognise the name anymore, and become more & more rune-like (my own, over time severely shortened signature being a case in point).

[dragon wench]

This is interesting. I didn't realise as many people have a form of writing that falls somewhere between printing and cursive.
It is also something I have developed (probably as a result of having taken too many lecture notes ). I find the midway between the two is faster than printing and more legible than cursive.

Between home and school, I learned cursive as a child, and although small and slanting, it is generally neat. But, I rarely write by hand anymore, since most of my written communication is done via computer.

I suppose I expressed regret at the decline in cursive for the simple fact that I can be a dinosaur with things like this

[Ravager]

I wouldn't say I write in true cursive anymore, though it's probably close. I did go through a phase where I just wrote everything in capitals. It looked neat, but it's the kind of thing they frown upon.

My parents used to use shorthand a lot, especially during their University days. Every so often one of the symbols will slip in (such as the three dots for 'therefore') and I wouldn't be surprised if doctors use shorthand or a combination of print, cursive and shorthand.
Shorthand is definitely a lot quicker to write than cursive.