Who played Fallout 1 answer

Wrath · Post by **Wrath** » Mon Dec 19, 2005 5:03 pm

Cmon guys, you know I'm right! The history of Fallout 2 is crap if compared to the first version of this awesome game! Everything in Fallout 1 is superior, expect (of course) the gameplay.. when I said everything, I'm referring to the history, to the non-organized cities (the hub rox (no organization) san francisco sux (too organized for me)), to the 'bad guys' (Enclave? wtf? that's crap... the muties are a hella way more evil

) and the goal (g.e.c.k sounds strange, watership is more 'necessary'

)

I'd like to know your opinion, guys, 'bout what I said

Malta Soron · Post by **Malta Soron** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 1:44 am

I think you have a point there.

Kipi · Post by **Kipi** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 6:05 am

Okay, here is my opinion of this:

First, I agree with the G.E.C.K thing. It just sounds like those over-used main quests "Find what uber-duber item, then return it to us". Finding Waterchip had more meaning, at least to me, since I could better understand it's need, it was more close to our world than some uber-item which could make wasteland to garden of Eden in a minutes.
So, point to Fallout 1 in that.

Then, the organized cities vs. non-organized.
After all, we must remember that there is 50 years between the ending of Fallout 1 and the beginning of Fallout 2. So, to me it's only logical that cities are more organizated in Fo2. And if we think of which cities were really well-organized in Fo2, we get a suprising answer:

Vault City: Very well organized, ruled by council and First Citizen
NCR: Also very well organized
New Reno: Ruled by different Mafias, so IMO not so well organizated
Gecko: At least for me it seems that it's just habitated by ghoulds, so no much organization there.
Vault 15: Small tent-town outside, inside gang of Raiders. Not so organizated.
Vault 13: Well, only family-hierarchy of deathclaws here.
Oil Rig: Ruled by the president, very well organizated.
San Francisco: Full of rivaliing groups and believes, so not as well organizated as one could think it is.
Modoc: Somewhat organizated, could be compared to Shady Shants from Fo1
The Den: No genral organization, several gangs.
Klamath: Not so organizated, no ruler, only folk living in it.
Redding: Same as Klamath mostly. Somewhat better organizated thought.
Broken Hills:Quite well organizated, but still behind VC or NCR.

So, as that list shows us, there are actually quite few cities which are very well organizated.

Then about history:
First, some of the places in Fo2 has their history reaching back to Fo1 like Millitary Base, Vault13 and 15 and NCR. Yes, NCR is old Shady Shants.

Also, IMO the history in Fo1 wasn't either so well told, as it's not in Fo2, but if consider that there are events and dialogies referring to Fo1, like dialog with Marcus, I could say that the history of Fo2 is more deep than history of Fo1.

Finally, the "bad guys" of the game.
For me, it's only good thing that BIS didn't reuse the idea of Super Mutants being the devils again. It's refreshing that in Fallout 2 the bad guys are Enclaves, and thus they are harder to kill and so on. And, after all, the Millitary Base and the Super Mutant -factory inside of it was destroyed, so IMO it's only logical that those aren't the biggest treath anymore, but something else.

So, here was my opinions of this.

Wrath · Post by **Wrath** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 8:11 am

Hmm... I see... you're right, but I think you misunderstood me in some points like: I didn't want the Super Mutants to be the 'bad guys' in the game again, I just said I'd rather face them than those Enclave fellas... still I'm glad they haven't re-used the Super Mutants (It would be really boring 'n strange...)
Now 'bout the organized cities... yep, there are less than I thought in F2.. but even the organized in F1 (like... like.... uh... Junktown.. or even maybe the Hub..) .. I don't know, they have somethin' cool... it's that post-holocaust stuff... (uhh sorry if can't explain myself well... my english classes aren't over yet

).. everythings destroyed, and so... but once again, I'm glad that Brian Fargo is consient about the effects of the time (50 years = more organization, bigger cities and so...)
I don't blame him for doin' the game as it is ('cause it's completly logical, and somehow, real), but I just prefer the F1 theme

Even thought the gameplay is really better in f2 than in f1... agh, it's frustrating when you just walk into a room full of Mutants armed with bazookas or miniguns (flamethrowers in the worst case) and Ian still with that Leather Jacket, which is burnt down in the first shot :S ... also in f1 the main way to gather experience is killin' enemies (bah...), which doesn't happen in f2... since you have much more quests than we used to have in f1...

well anyway, both games are awesome, so awesome that I still playin' them even when I have Winning Eleven, Vampire Bloodlines, Cs Source and other 'good graphics' games in my PC

Woozaii · Post by **Woozaii** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 2:50 pm

I dont agree with you when you say:

[QUOTE=Wrath]The history of Fallout 2 is crap if compared to the first version of this awesome game! Everything in Fallout 1 is superior, expect (of course) the gameplay.[/QUOTE]

Not everything is superior, and i really dont think that the history is that much better in Fallout 1. Its still finding the Uber-savior-item-waterchip for the overseer. In Fallout 2 it was just a grey suitcase instead. I found that the only differences between the Fallout 1 and Fallout 2 stories are, that Fallout 2 is longer and more detailed, but that Fallout it is more spooky. And that brings me to my next point.

I agree with you that the Fallout 1 cities are more cool. The hub has a strange silence and calmess, kind of when you are standing in the eye of a hurricane, and Shady Sands was the first sample of what was to come, and what the world had come to. The Boneyard was so creepy that i just HAD to keep playing! And the best part... It got worse, and worse, and worse.
But as Kipi said, its been fifty years, and we are way further up north, and everything tells me that the bombs didnt really hit as hard up there ( no "TheGlow" and not as many ghouls). I guess we can thank Feargus Urquhart for creeping down Fallout 2 (damn). I also like it better the creepy way.

So i both agree and disagree with you.

And i dont really think Brian Fargo had much to do with that part of Fallout 2. He was the founder of Interplay, and not the BIS chief.

But now he is starting a whole new company! Look down in my signature to find the very interesting thread about how he is going to save... (fade out)

Yay post nr. 100

Wrath · Post by **Wrath** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 3:52 pm

[QUOTE=Woozaii]

And i dont really think Brian Fargo had much to do with that part of Fallout 2. He was the founder of Interplay, and not the BIS chief.

But now he is starting a whole new company! Look down in my signature to find the very interesting thread about how he is going to save... (fade out)

Yay post nr. 100

[/QUOTE]

oh, well I said Brian Fargo 'cause it was the first name I could remember of.. I could just said 'Fallout Team'

also, I've read the Brain Fargo's stuff.. yeah, I hope that works... but I got a bad felling 'bout this... you know when you fell it just won't work? That's how I'm felling now..

Woozaii · Post by **Woozaii** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 4:21 pm

Hope is a dangerous thing. But only if you are alone on it. If enough people hope at the same time, with eachother, things will work out. I'm hoping.

Deadalready · Post by **Deadalready** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 6:48 pm

What I liked about Fallout 1 was that no matter where you went there were dozens of caravans ready to go, most fun was doing the Crimson Caravan runs; That and constantly going into the boneyard to slaughter Deathclaws.
I never realised it until now but it did have a very cool atmosphere, Junktown and Boneyard were pretty damn sweet.

What let the game down was the time limit though, it also felt infantile in a way.

Still I played Fallout 2 many times and many years before I played Fallout 1 so overall I still feel Fallout 2 is the better game all round. I like the Enclave though I must admit with the conspiracy they aren't as diabolical as the Master's army was.

Though moving with the times, there's no way that a group of super mutants could really touch the Chosen One in Advanced Powered Armour though.

Wrath · Post by **Wrath** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 6:17 am

oh yeah, Crimson caravan rox! Lot's of raiders, lot of money and lot of fun

now 'bout the enclave: their plan is a bit weird.. and master is the master... he's 'bad', ugly.. and he got everything that a bad guy must have

the main problem of the enclave is that they are humans... merely humans in a strong armor... I'd prefer a freak (as the muties) or aliens or somethin' like to be the vilany and scum of the fallout universe

yet, the mutants are easily beaten... i've finished f1 while uping from level 8 to 9 :S (I just ran to Brotherhood as soon as possible and got the power armor... from that time on I was invincible :S )

ps: no answer needed...

Woozaii · Post by **Woozaii** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:43 am

Somehow i still dont agree with you.

I dont think that the enclave is unoriginal or boring. I found it very intriguing when i was playing, that when you are fighting the enclave, you are somehow fighting you past. The Chosen One is like a symbol for all of mankind. If The Chosen One is a bad guy, the world turns into a bad place. If The Chosen One is a good guy, the world turns into a nice place. So when you are fighting the enclave, you are a symbol of the new times, new ways and also new hope, whilst the enclave is a symbol of old hatred, ignorance and all the ancient manners and ways. The enclave is still living in the year 2000 remember? The president (who represents the enclave) seems illusional and doesnt seem to link with the real world in a proper way. When you see it from that point of view, the idea with the enclave is actually kind of cool. Its the same in Fallout 1 except that in Fallout 1 you were fighting the future and not the past. so its the same, but its like it was a little too cliché for me somehow. Super mutants... Evil dude with mind powers... GIGANTIC (but somehow, still very very secret) base... I think that if they had replaced the enclave with alien invasion from Mars, or had just set a new bad ugly evil freak in, it would be less... magical.

Despite all i said above, Fallout 1 is still the MOTHER of all true rpgs, so dont get me wrong

.

Wrath · Post by **Wrath** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 11:33 am

[QUOTE=Woozaii]Somehow i still dont agree with you.

I dont think that the enclave is unoriginal or boring. I found it very intriguing when i was playing, that when you are fighting the enclave, you are somehow fighting you past. The Chosen One is like a symbol for all of mankind. If The Chosen One is a bad guy, the world turns into a bad place. If The Chosen One is a good guy, the world turns into a nice place. So when you are fighting the enclave, you are a symbol of the new times, new ways and also new hope, whilst the enclave is a symbol of old hatred, ignorance and all the ancient manners and ways. The enclave is still living in the year 2000 remember? The president (who represents the enclave) seems illusional and doesnt seem to link with the real world in a proper way. When you see it from that point of view, the idea with the enclave is actually kind of cool. Its the same in Fallout 1 except that in Fallout 1 you were fighting the future and not the past. so its the same, but its like it was a little too cliché for me somehow. Super mutants... Evil dude with mind powers... GIGANTIC (but somehow, still very very secret) base... I think that if they had replaced the enclave with alien invasion from Mars, or had just set a new bad ugly evil freak in, it would be less... magical.

Despite all i said above, Fallout 1 is still the MOTHER of all true rpgs, so dont get me wrong

.[/QUOTE]

nooo.. I'm starting to like this thread

... I think you're right.. now I see fallout 2 in a different way... the enclave isn't actually so unoriginal... yet, there's one thing I haven't understood ... where's the brotherhood? I mean, they are to the south of course, but that fella (the one who Frank kills in San Francisco Base) tells you they don't have the mighty they had once.. but they still alive or enclave got rid of 'em? (Is it explaned in the game? When?) Also, they got theirs DNA mutated, like me and everyone else in the wastes right? (I mean that they would be affected by Forced Evolution Virus... or they wouldn't?)
Thx for your time

Woozaii · Post by **Woozaii** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 12:34 pm

I agree, this is getting more and more interesting

.

The brotherhood is down south, but the brotherhood refuses to share technology, and they dont take in people from outside the brotherhood. Sure, the vault dweller got in, but he had to crawl into The Glow and back remember? Cabbot (The gate guard) even says that no one expected that he would survive. That means that the brotherhood is unable to expand. But everything looses power if it doesnt develop or evolve. 50 years has passed, so everyone has probaly scavenged more tech stuff, started making their own medicine and gotten more guns and books and soap and whatnot. That means that the brotherhood doesnt have patent on those things anymore so, naturally, their power shrinks.

I dont think that the brotherhood is weaker because of the enclave. I just dont think that the brotherhood stands a chance against them. The brotherhood only has their little community of squires, old people and a few folks in power armor. The enclave has an army, equipped with advanced power armor, high tech weaponry, wanamingoes, Frank Horrigan and most importantly: The vertibirds. The vertibirds are the only airborne vehicles in the world at that time. Its true that you bring the brotherhood the vertibird plans, but we are not sure if the brotherhood can even manufacture them, or if they can manufactor as many of them.

So the score is pretty much:
The brotherhood: 1
The enclave : 1.000.000.

Good luck brotherhood.

As for The enclave and FEV, the enclave has a vaccine (The enclave scientist gives it to you when he releases the FEV into the ventilation) AND an antidote (The enclave doctor in NCR asks you to test it for him), so i think they are pretty much wrapped up. Apart from that, they had their own vaults, and i suppose they were a lot better equipped that the normal civillian vaults that everyone else had (Weapons, labs, space, people, brains, brawns, etc, etc).

I hope that helps

Wrath · Post by **Wrath** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 1:31 pm

so sad... I liked those guys (BoS).... (they are .. (or should I say were?) undoubtly in trouble...!) maybe it's because the stuff you aquire there in f1

, so much weapons, bullets and the power armor... (a NECESSARY item to get rid of the muties )
I liked them so much that I thought 'bout downloading or buying fallout tatics just to know the history.! (I'll search for it in some websites some day...) but for sure they stand no chance vs. Frank Horrigan and it's crew...

btw, who's that guy?? he just showed up from nowhere, infected with FEV ( I think ) and he's a real influent guy ( not sure) in the enclave....
what's his history? which is his goal? (same of the president?) and is this shown in the game or we are left to wonder 'bout it?

Woozaii · Post by **Woozaii** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 1:38 pm

Well, according to Chris Avellone; Frank Horrigan was a miner who was working at the Mariposa military base dig site (The vats) and got infected by FEV. The enclave scientists started making tons and tons of experiments and research on him, and slowly he was transformed and molded into what he is now. He is kind of like a Half-Super-Mutant-Cyborg-robot-bodyguard type. The enclave seems to put up with him, despite his mutations, because the president likes him, his skills and because everyone are damn well scared of him. He is a secret service agent and the presidents bodyguard.

About Fallout tactics:

Be careful, or else you will be disappointed. Its not a continuation of the fallout universe, and its DEFINITELY not a role-playing game. But it does give a nice insight on the brotherhood, so its still a good buy, if you want a turn based/real time strategy action game.

Wrath · Post by **Wrath** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 1:50 pm

Well, according to Chris Avellone; Frank Horrigan was ....

Hmm I understood the Frank's History, but who's Chris Avellone?

About Fallout tactics:

Be careful, or else you will be disappointed. Its not a continuation of the fallout universe, and its DEFINITELY not a role-playing game. But it does give a nice insight on the brotherhood, so its still a good buy, if you want a turn based/real time strategy action game.

q1: oh yeah, I'm aware of it... but I wish to know if the Strategy you meant is like Age of Empires (which I seriously doubt) or like Swat2 (or maybe Commandos and it's gender...)?
q2: its not a continuation of fallout universe? there's no mention of the 'Vault Dweller' on it? you don't have to fight the Khans? or maybe boneyard? is it a completly different game?

ps: this is starting to looks like a chat room... look to all this posts... all of 'em were made today or yesterday

The Z · Post by **The Z** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 2:10 pm

[QUOTE=Woozaii] Apart from that, they had their own vaults, and i suppose they were a lot better equipped that the normal civillian vaults that everyone else had (Weapons, labs, space, people, brains, brawns, etc, etc).
[/QUOTE]

IIRC (it's been a long while since I played anything in the Fallout series), some of the vaults were set up to have failings by the Enclave. It was like a giant human rat experiment - the President wanted to see how people reacted to their dire situations. Plus, they wanted a crop of people from these vaults to compare to the 'mutated' population that was forced to live on the surface, a'la Arroyo.

Kipi · Post by **Kipi** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 2:37 pm

I think I can clarify these questions a bit, thought this is going to offtopic

Wrath wrote: q1: oh yeah, I'm aware of it... but I wish to know if the Strategy you meant is like Age of Empires (which I seriously doubt) or like Swat2 (or maybe Commandos and it's gender...)?

Ever played Jagged Alliance 1 or 2? It's kinda crossover of Fallout and Jagged Alliance 2. You control few chars, they gain xp and levels like in Fallout, but it's very linear and the dialogues consists only what NPCs say. So it's more like JA2 in Fallout universe.

q2: its not a continuation of fallout universe? there's no mention of the 'Vault Dweller' on it? you don't have to fight the Khans? or maybe boneyard? is it a completly different game?

Hmm... have to check this later, hopefully during this week when I got time to install it again, but IIRC it's situated between Fo1 and 2. It's the same universe, but totally different area, IIRC SE or something from the base in Fo1. Or, this is what I remember from the intro-clip.

So, no places from Fo1 or 2, nor any characters, BUT I recall that there was a situation where refered to the Master and it's death.

So, it's kinda totally different game, just situated in world of Fallout 1 and 2, but not in the same map.

The Z wrote: IIRC (it's been a long while since I played anything in the Fallout series), some of the vaults were set up to have failings by the Enclave. It was like a giant human rat experiment - the President wanted to see how people reacted to their dire situations. Plus, they wanted a crop of people from these vaults to compare to the 'mutated' population that was forced to live on the surface, a'la Arroyo.

You are right there. It was planned that every Vault was different, some equipment were meant to malfunction in some Vaults, some were missing equipment or supplies other had and so on.

Wrath · Post by **Wrath** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 5:44 pm

whow... seems I got the attention of a lot of people

about fallout tatics, I think I'll find out how it is by myself... soon I'll be playin' it... thanks for the answers....
now gettin' back to the thread subject... The Z, you reminded me another bad point of fallout 2...

besides those all that I listed at the start of this thread (which many were brought down by your arguments folks) but this one is more serious.... the vaults were an experiment??? BAH! now that pissed me off... so where is the emotion of getting the Water Chip... facing mighty mutants and crossing half of california?? All of this just because one bunch of ********* wanted to?? Nah, I think this one no one can convince me otherwise... that's a flaw.. and a nasty one... too bad... This not only messed up with the history of F2, but with the F1 as well....
made me angry

Malta Soron · Post by **Malta Soron** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 2:32 am

It does explain, though, why Vault 13 got only one Water Chip, and Vault 20 a whole box

IIRC in one Vault there were 1 man and 1000 women, in another 1000 men and 1 woman, and in another only <16 yo children.

Kipi · Post by **Kipi** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 6:06 am

[QUOTE=Wrath]whow... seems I got the attention of a lot of people

about fallout tatics, I think I'll find out how it is by myself... soon I'll be playin' it... thanks for the answers....
now gettin' back to the thread subject... The Z, you reminded me another bad point of fallout 2...

besides those all that I listed at the start of this thread (which many were brought down by your arguments folks) but this one is more serious.... the vaults were an experiment??? BAH! now that pissed me off... so where is the emotion of getting the Water Chip... facing mighty mutants and crossing half of california?? All of this just because one bunch of ********* wanted to?? Nah, I think this one no one can convince me otherwise... that's a flaw.. and a nasty one... too bad... This not only messed up with the history of F2, but with the F1 as well....
made me angry

[/QUOTE]
Sorry, but I'm not agreeing you there...

For me, this whole experiment-thing has made the Enclaves feel even more evil, thus making me really want to kick them in nuts.

Also, that explains so well why other vaults were empyt and so on...