I'm currently in a campaign where my character is heiress to an evil kingdom. I asked the DM about certain situations and the law of the land (being a LE character and all). His reply was "What are the laws? You are the heiress afterall."
So now I've taken it upon myself to write up a list of the laws of the land, but have no idea where to start. Anyone have any suggestions? Maybe laws you've used or seen in campaigns before?
Just for background or brainstorming reasons, the kingdom is LE and was formly run by a necromancer (my father). However paladins thought it would be nice of them to come in and take over the place (much to the horror of the populace).
Thanks in advance for any help or ideas!
Laws for an Evil Campaign/Region
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elvishpiper42
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Siberys
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Laws-
-In ANY conflict, each person's soul is their own.
(Out of game terms, this means that the town doesn't have to do jack squat to help out a person in need)
-A corpse present in any situation will allow any form of raising.
(Basically, the necromancers could be good and ressurect you, or they could raise you as a skeleton pet.)
Two basic rules above. Below are some ideas of a Monarchy-
-Treason will result in capital punishment
-All property is in ownership of the family of the king
-The King has the final say in any situation or event
Some examples, if you're looking for a type of government that is. Check on Monarchy, that'd be a great Lawful Evil type game if you work it right.
-In ANY conflict, each person's soul is their own.
(Out of game terms, this means that the town doesn't have to do jack squat to help out a person in need)
-A corpse present in any situation will allow any form of raising.
(Basically, the necromancers could be good and ressurect you, or they could raise you as a skeleton pet.)
Two basic rules above. Below are some ideas of a Monarchy-
-Treason will result in capital punishment
-All property is in ownership of the family of the king
-The King has the final say in any situation or event
Some examples, if you're looking for a type of government that is. Check on Monarchy, that'd be a great Lawful Evil type game if you work it right.
Listen up maggots, Mr. Popo's 'bout to teach you the pecking order.
It goes you, the dirt, the worms inside of the dirt, Popo's stool, Kami, then Popo.
~Mr. Popo, Dragonball Z Abridged
It goes you, the dirt, the worms inside of the dirt, Popo's stool, Kami, then Popo.
~Mr. Popo, Dragonball Z Abridged
murder would still be outlawed, since it plays hell with the efficience in a kingdom and would quickly spiral into anarchy. Make up rules, laws and costums about duels and challenges
Most of the LE allignment in a kingdom does not come specifically from its laws, but how they are enforced. sending a thief to a rehab where he is taught that he should not steal can be considered 'good' (unless you consider such ways indoctrination), while beheading might be considered 'bad'
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extensive secret services and inquisitional forces that act very brutal are often marks of evil reigns, and since they are large organisations with paperwork and hierarchy they are often considered lawfull too
Most of the LE allignment in a kingdom does not come specifically from its laws, but how they are enforced. sending a thief to a rehab where he is taught that he should not steal can be considered 'good' (unless you consider such ways indoctrination), while beheading might be considered 'bad'
_______
extensive secret services and inquisitional forces that act very brutal are often marks of evil reigns, and since they are large organisations with paperwork and hierarchy they are often considered lawfull too
If something can go wrong, it will go wrong
Always prepare for the worst
Never let experience guide you: every day is different
Antagonist
Always prepare for the worst
Never let experience guide you: every day is different
Antagonist
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Siberys
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Some examples of a lawful evil type ideal-
Slavery- while they do not break the law, it was ok for slavery back before the emancipation.
Taxing- People who are forced to pay a certain amount of taxes each year to support the government is lawful, but has it's bad sides.
Right to Ownership- Limiting this can create a lawful evil type place. If for say the law states you can have a maximum of 100 gold in property that you may consider your own, and everything else is the king/queen's, then it is lawful, but evil in the aspect of poverty.
General "Rights"- Delete most of them. Right to a religion could really be the only one.
The people have no say- Self explanitory.
To ensure that it is indeed lawful, I would also create an equivelant of the magna carta.
I've always defined Monarchism as lawful evil as it's lawful in the sense that it has standards and semantics, but evil for some of those semantics.
Slavery- while they do not break the law, it was ok for slavery back before the emancipation.
Taxing- People who are forced to pay a certain amount of taxes each year to support the government is lawful, but has it's bad sides.
Right to Ownership- Limiting this can create a lawful evil type place. If for say the law states you can have a maximum of 100 gold in property that you may consider your own, and everything else is the king/queen's, then it is lawful, but evil in the aspect of poverty.
General "Rights"- Delete most of them. Right to a religion could really be the only one.
The people have no say- Self explanitory.
To ensure that it is indeed lawful, I would also create an equivelant of the magna carta.
I've always defined Monarchism as lawful evil as it's lawful in the sense that it has standards and semantics, but evil for some of those semantics.
Listen up maggots, Mr. Popo's 'bout to teach you the pecking order.
It goes you, the dirt, the worms inside of the dirt, Popo's stool, Kami, then Popo.
~Mr. Popo, Dragonball Z Abridged
It goes you, the dirt, the worms inside of the dirt, Popo's stool, Kami, then Popo.
~Mr. Popo, Dragonball Z Abridged
Be careful there, Sib. Monarchy is hardly lawful evil, especially when looking at its counter part in Tyranny.
The basics to remember when creating a Lawful Evil set of rules/society and what not is that it is not based off of sadistic, random evil acts. There is very much an idea of self-serving, and evillness, but it is all done within a set of guidelines, rules and (if established) laws. For instance, take Lex Luther from Superman, or the Kingpin from Spiderman. They are both evil, but live in a lawful society. It is because they have found ways around, and loopholes regarding the laws. The work past them, but remain evil.
A LAwful Evil society can still have the notion of 'rights', as to alienate everyone is a poor idea. Instead, limit what small amounts of 'rights' exist to a certain class of people. For instance, for a great deal of European history, it was Male land-owners. In England, there was wealth required as well. In France, it was the Seigneurs (Nobles of the Sword), and Nobles of the Robe. Basically make the society look great, but make the practice of it great only to those who would be beneficial to the ruler.
A good rule of thumb is to think of the subjects as assets. Which of your assets are the most useful to you? Those are the ones that are granted basic rights. This would do two things: First, it would create a sense of loyalty from those who are needed to maintain your power. Second, it would keep those who do not like your rule from gaining such power.
Next thing. Sib does have the right idea in regards to Monarchy as a basis. With that in mind, no constitution (Magna Carta). The second a written, formalized document like that exists, loopholes will be found that will screw you. Your word is Law, not a piece of paper. This helps establish a sense of unpredictable fear. Instead of written law, have a set of spoken laws, and for the most part, consistent laws. But never take the Sword of Damacleus from their heads, as fear is often the best ruling tool.
Taxes are essentially to running government. Nothing really evil about it. If you want to take the greed path, then tax them heavily. If not, tax them enough to live comfortably, and run your nation. Slavery is in much the same boat here. It is just a smart, economic tool.
Anyway, I have to run for now, but a fantastic source to look at to get a good idea for Lawful Evil governments would be Machiavelli's The Prince. There is some online resources (sparknotes, for instance) which can give you a pretty detailed over view of it, though I would recommend reading the whole thing through for the best understanding.
The basics to remember when creating a Lawful Evil set of rules/society and what not is that it is not based off of sadistic, random evil acts. There is very much an idea of self-serving, and evillness, but it is all done within a set of guidelines, rules and (if established) laws. For instance, take Lex Luther from Superman, or the Kingpin from Spiderman. They are both evil, but live in a lawful society. It is because they have found ways around, and loopholes regarding the laws. The work past them, but remain evil.
A LAwful Evil society can still have the notion of 'rights', as to alienate everyone is a poor idea. Instead, limit what small amounts of 'rights' exist to a certain class of people. For instance, for a great deal of European history, it was Male land-owners. In England, there was wealth required as well. In France, it was the Seigneurs (Nobles of the Sword), and Nobles of the Robe. Basically make the society look great, but make the practice of it great only to those who would be beneficial to the ruler.
A good rule of thumb is to think of the subjects as assets. Which of your assets are the most useful to you? Those are the ones that are granted basic rights. This would do two things: First, it would create a sense of loyalty from those who are needed to maintain your power. Second, it would keep those who do not like your rule from gaining such power.
Next thing. Sib does have the right idea in regards to Monarchy as a basis. With that in mind, no constitution (Magna Carta). The second a written, formalized document like that exists, loopholes will be found that will screw you. Your word is Law, not a piece of paper. This helps establish a sense of unpredictable fear. Instead of written law, have a set of spoken laws, and for the most part, consistent laws. But never take the Sword of Damacleus from their heads, as fear is often the best ruling tool.
Taxes are essentially to running government. Nothing really evil about it. If you want to take the greed path, then tax them heavily. If not, tax them enough to live comfortably, and run your nation. Slavery is in much the same boat here. It is just a smart, economic tool.
Anyway, I have to run for now, but a fantastic source to look at to get a good idea for Lawful Evil governments would be Machiavelli's The Prince. There is some online resources (sparknotes, for instance) which can give you a pretty detailed over view of it, though I would recommend reading the whole thing through for the best understanding.
bit of a side note
looking to history, tyrants and 'evil' monarchs stay on top because they have loyal nobles or trustees and an army of soldiers who get wel paid and cared for. Why care for the soldiers? As long as they see tey have a good jobs, they see no reason to quit and rebel, and every reason to quel any rebelion. Why have a bunch of loyal nobles? same here. as long as there is the prospect of gaining from a position close to you, nobles will not unite against you.
so you have 3 factors. the populace, the army and the government (burocrats or nobles, they form the government). As long as the last two are happy and functioning well, the populace will follow. beings can live with many things, but will usualy resent change, even if it is for the better, for sure if its for the worst
looking to history, tyrants and 'evil' monarchs stay on top because they have loyal nobles or trustees and an army of soldiers who get wel paid and cared for. Why care for the soldiers? As long as they see tey have a good jobs, they see no reason to quit and rebel, and every reason to quel any rebelion. Why have a bunch of loyal nobles? same here. as long as there is the prospect of gaining from a position close to you, nobles will not unite against you.
so you have 3 factors. the populace, the army and the government (burocrats or nobles, they form the government). As long as the last two are happy and functioning well, the populace will follow. beings can live with many things, but will usualy resent change, even if it is for the better, for sure if its for the worst
If something can go wrong, it will go wrong
Always prepare for the worst
Never let experience guide you: every day is different
Antagonist
Always prepare for the worst
Never let experience guide you: every day is different
Antagonist
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Zaneth
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Sorry if I missed this being mentioned before. Looking at history again, tyranical dictators make liberal use of their military. Try enforcing a mandatory amount of service (wasn't it two years for Soviet Russia?). Also, keep the troops (enlisted, not conscripted) heavily funded and fanatically loyal. As for this thing about indoctrinating theives, why not indoctrinate everyone?
Keeping your own form of the KGB is a good idea too.
Keeping your own form of the KGB is a good idea too.
A Lawful Evil government doesn't need to rule by fear. All you need to do is make the people feel as if there is no use in rebelling or speaking out as it will do no good. Use evil tools like social welfare which is only a tool to keep poor people poor and dependant on the government. Use tools like patriotism to convince the people that their government is the righteous whilst others are evil. Use religion as a tool to control the masses, fearing the wrath of a god can be more powerful than fearing the Feds....
Sounds a lot like a government we already know, yes?
Sounds a lot like a government we already know, yes?
"Korax thinks you look very tasty today...
Social welfare was created to control the poor. Big government really could care less about the poor (Hurricane Katrina) and the people who need it can't get it whilst the ones on it don't need it. I don't want this to turn into a political topic but thats how governments control people, by making them dependant. Thats a good way to make a LE government, by creating laws which sound good actually harm rather than help the populace.
"Korax thinks you look very tasty today...
Get off the high chair and look at the rest of the world. Several countries (in Europe; I live in one) have it working in a decent way. Not perfect, because too many people profit from it that don't deserve it, but it also helps a lot of people who would otherwise be unable to even rent a home, get critical surgery, or go to study. It does not keep those people poor, on the contrary: it helps them to improve their lot in live. Those are several examples from my immediate environment.Pellinore wrote:Social welfare was created to control the poor. Big government really could care less about the poor (Hurricane Katrina) and the people who need it can't get it whilst the ones on it don't need it. I don't want this to turn into a political topic but thats how governments control people, by making them dependant. Thats a good way to make a LE government, by creating laws which sound good actually harm rather than help the populace.
Edit: I don't think the American model is exactly the best model around...
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Siberys
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Guys, this isn't a thread about real world governments, it's about a D&D character becoming king/queen of a land. Lets keep it on topic, especially if we're going to keep it revived after 3 years.
Listen up maggots, Mr. Popo's 'bout to teach you the pecking order.
It goes you, the dirt, the worms inside of the dirt, Popo's stool, Kami, then Popo.
~Mr. Popo, Dragonball Z Abridged
It goes you, the dirt, the worms inside of the dirt, Popo's stool, Kami, then Popo.
~Mr. Popo, Dragonball Z Abridged
My apologies, dear moderator 
but the OP did ask for input on how to write up laws for a LE government. I was simply providing some input on how good laws can actually be not as good as they were intended and how a LE government can use those laws against people. I am also not the one who brought it down to a personal level... I also stated that I did not want it to turn into a political topic... I am merely trying to assist with the OP's request. 
OP: A LE government does not have to be outwardly evil but may be passively oppressive. It can also be a strict military regime. You have an interesting back story and I would like to read more about him/her when you finish
but the OP did ask for input on how to write up laws for a LE government. I was simply providing some input on how good laws can actually be not as good as they were intended and how a LE government can use those laws against people. I am also not the one who brought it down to a personal level... I also stated that I did not want it to turn into a political topic... I am merely trying to assist with the OP's request. 
OP: A LE government does not have to be outwardly evil but may be passively oppressive. It can also be a strict military regime. You have an interesting back story and I would like to read more about him/her when you finish
"Korax thinks you look very tasty today...
