Most useful skills by class?

Galuf the Dwarf · Post by **Galuf the Dwarf** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 11:19 pm

Well, I thought I'd ask this for my own needs and for possible future reference for others. In short, what are the best skill choices per class for the original campaign and both official expansions? This is will be taken by one selected character class at a time. For starters, let's go with the rogue.

From what I've gathered through some research, the most essential skills are Search, Open Lock, and Disarm Trap.
Next in line (being somewhat important) are Persuade, Use Magic Device (if you don't have a Wizard or Sorcerer in your party), Appraise, Lore, Hide, and Move Silently.
The most useless skill is likely Pick Pockets (and NO, I do not want to exploit the whole "Pick quest NPC's pockets" junk; don't even make a joke of suggesting it).

Still, what can be said (particularly in the expansions) about Bluff and Intimidate? All threads I searched of were quite a ways back, when Shadows of Undrentide & Hordes of the Underdark were new & rather unexperienced things, so I guess now's a better time to find out.

So, do we have answers here or what?

Tarrant · Post by **Tarrant** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 3:51 am

Well, the "Hide in plain sight"-skill probably was the most usefull skill for me. with my Shadowdancer. but overall, I think the disarm traps and search skills are most usefull. For fighters I would go with Cleave.

Fiberfar · Post by **Fiberfar** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 9:51 am

[QUOTE=Galuf the Dwarf]
From what I've gathered through some research, the most essential skills are Search, Open Lock, and Disarm Trap.
Next in line (being somewhat important) are Persuade, Use Magic Device (if you don't have a Wizard or Sorcerer in your party), Appraise, Lore, Hide, and Move Silently.
[/QUOTE]

I didn't see the tumble skill. In it self it isn't that good, but if you have five ranks in it, you get an extra +1 to your AC. In HotU, you'll be around level 27 when you're done. That would give you about 30 ranks to tumble, which will give you a +6 to your AC (I'm not sure what AC this is. Probably dodge).

You can't get this skill before you install the Shadows of Undrentide (Just a quick notice for anyone who reads this).

I'd say Hide and Move Silently are more important than Search and Open Lock (because the weapons you get will open any door

). I agree with Persuade being one of the better skills, because it gives you information in the game and that makes the game a little more whole to me. Bluff is the most useless skill in the game IMO. It does about the same as Pursade (Except that it gives you a dialogue that fits an evil character better than a good one).

mr_sir · Post by **mr_sir** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 12:24 pm

i never bother with appraise, but i agree search, disable traps, pick locks are 3 essentials for any character. i find tumble is pretty good for arcane types as it increases your ac and helps if you find you suddenly need to run away as the enemy is too close for comfort. combine this with the buffing spells and your arcane spellcaster is free to just blast everything in sight

Galuf the Dwarf · Post by **Galuf the Dwarf** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 6:06 pm

Okay, then, what about these for rogues?
- Set Trap

- Craft (preferedly trapmaking)

- Use Magic Device (might come in handy if there isn't an arcane spellcaster in the party)

- Parry

mr_sir · Post by **mr_sir** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 6:41 pm

i've never really seen the point in the craft skill as the weapons you make are useless compared to the magical ones you can make elsewhere and you can find loads of traps or buy them anyway (money is not really in short supply in nwn). but maybe thats just me cos i don't really use traps all that much as a rogue anyway, only if i have no other option

use magic device is handy for a rogue though - i think that skill is essential as it opens up a lot of spellcasting opportunities

Galuf the Dwarf · Post by **Galuf the Dwarf** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 9:10 pm

[QUOTE=mr_sir]i've never really seen the point in the craft skill as the weapons you make are useless compared to the magical ones you can make elsewhere and you can find loads of traps or buy them anyway (money is not really in short supply in nwn). but maybe thats just me cos i don't really use traps all that much as a rogue anyway, only if i have no other option

use magic device is handy for a rogue though - i think that skill is essential as it opens up a lot of spellcasting opportunities[/QUOTE]

That's cool.

Any advice on Parry & Set Trap?

Fiberfar · Post by **Fiberfar** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 10:15 am

[QUOTE=Galuf the Dwarf]Okay, then, what about these for rogues?
- Set Trap

- Craft (preferedly trapmaking)

- Use Magic Device (might come in handy if there isn't an arcane spellcaster in the party)

- Parry[/QUOTE]

I have never bothered with the craft traps skill, but it might be handy if you're in a really hard situation (I've seen fire traps that does 200 damage). Only reason to have it is for roleplaying purpose I suppose.

Set trap is a much better skill IMO. I've played a rogue before, and I trapped the area behind a door so hard that he died when he ran behind the door

UMD. Very good skill if you want to use items (I mean armors and misc items) that is restricted to another class.

Parry. I'm not sure if the bug with this skill was removed with the last update or no. You could only parry 3 of 6 attacks per round. And if it don't work as it's supposed to, there is even less reason to take the skill.

Galuf the Dwarf · Post by **Galuf the Dwarf** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 10:22 am

[QUOTE=Fiberfar]UMD. Very good skill if you want to use items (I mean armors and misc items) that is restricted to another class.[/QUOTE]

Well, the rest of your answer sounds clear except for this. I thought this was mostly for arcane items. It's also for other non-scroll or -wand items?

Fiberfar · Post by **Fiberfar** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 10:46 am

[QUOTE=Galuf the Dwarf]Well, the rest of your answer sounds clear except for this. I thought this was mostly for arcane items. It's also for other non-scroll or -wand items?

[/QUOTE]

Rogues and Bards with the UMD skill can use items restricted to class or alignment. That includes armors and other items as well. To check if this is how it works (and if it is my brain who is playing tricks on me), I'll make a rogue and test it now.

Edit: I just made a rogue in HotU, and with 18 ranks of UMD he could use monk gloves. I didn't bother go check more items

Arius · Post by **Arius** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 5:48 am

If you are planning to make a rogue character as your character, maximize your search skill for sure. In SoU and HotU this will allow you to see the hidden doors very easily. Note that in SoU if you hire a rogue like Dorna, her search skill will not uncover hidden things for you (it was not implemented). It was however implemented into HotU so your rogue henchmen's search will uncover hidden things for you.

Tumble is also something that should be maxed, the already said +1 AC per 5 ranks is extremely useful. Note that armor check will not reduce this effect at all.

UMD is another that should be maxed for sure. Your rogue will be able to use very powerful items that she could not wear without the UMD skill, it really really makes a difference.

I like to make sure my disable device and open lock are maxed too because I dont like to rely on magic means of unlocking devices. Some locks cannot be opened by magical means at all.

Someone has done some calculations for parry and showed that its pretty useless although I dont remember where I saw this.

I found appraise to be quite useful. Taking alot of ranks in this will save you alot of money, allowing you to save up for those really unique, powerful items you will see in SoU and HotU.

Galuf the Dwarf · Post by **Galuf the Dwarf** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 5:35 pm

On to another class

Well, I guess the rogue's pretty much covered. Okay, moving right along...

How about the Barbarian class?

My current thoughts are:
Most Important- Discipline
Likely Useful - Heal, Lore
Questionable - Listen, Spot*, Appraise*, Taunt
Least Important- Parry

Note: * = Cross-Class skill

Another question: Is there an editing program (like Gate/Shadowkeeper) that I can edit a character's skills with?

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 6:39 pm

I say Tumble is a must have for all that can get it. Not only does it give you a bonus at avoiding damage, but it also increases your AC. All caster types however should have Concentration.

The rest are just for fun. You'll never see yourself using parry in a serious game. Crafting is a joke, unless you can craft and imbue wands or scrolls, where that becomes rather useful for conservation of magic.

For theif skills, I have a better time bashing doors and chests than picking them. Traps are easy to resist, and the only advantage to disarming/detecting traps is that you get to recover the trap or possibly get experience for disarming it. Also, you probably never user traps. They're kind of useless, in the matter that you must set them when no one's around and then you have to lure the creatures there.

If you can kill a monster with a trap, chances are, you'll have an easier time killing it without one.

Hide has its' uses for rogues thugh. Avoiding enemies and the first backstab of the battle. With shadowdancer's hide in plain sight, it's a must have.

Galuf the Dwarf · Post by **Galuf the Dwarf** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 7:27 pm

[QUOTE=Crenshinibon]I say Tumble is a must have for all that can get it. Not only does it give you a bonus at avoiding damage, but it also increases your AC. All caster types however should have Concentration.

The rest are just for fun. You'll never see yourself using parry in a serious game. Crafting is a joke, unless you can craft and imbue wands or scrolls, where that becomes rather useful for conservation of magic.

For theif skills, I have a better time bashing doors and chests than picking them. Traps are easy to resist, and the only advantage to disarming/detecting traps is that you get to recover the trap or possibly get experience for disarming it. Also, you probably never user traps. They're kind of useless, in the matter that you must set them when no one's around and then you have to lure the creatures there.

If you can kill a monster with a trap, chances are, you'll have an easier time killing it without one.

Hide has its' uses for rogues thugh. Avoiding enemies and the first backstab of the battle. With shadowdancer's hide in plain sight, it's a must have.[/QUOTE]

Ok, thanks, but what about just a Barbarian right now?

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 7:34 pm

You're planning to go all out hardcore Barbarian?

I wouldn't recoment that. All with the exception of one of my characters have three classes. It's much more efficient like that.

But, for a hardcore barbarian, as much as I don't like the idea, I'd suggest, in no particular order: Discipline (class skill) and Tumble (a cross class skill, availible only if you have Shadows of Undrentide), otherwise go with Heal or Lore (both of them are class skills). I'm only suggesting two skills because I assume that you intelligence will be at nine, as you probably don't want your character to have difficulties with interaction.

Galuf the Dwarf · Post by **Galuf the Dwarf** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 7:44 pm

[QUOTE=Crenshinibon]You're planning to go all out hardcore Barbarian?

I wouldn't recoment that. All with the exception of one of my characters have three classes. It's much more efficient like that.

But, for a hardcore barbarian, as much as I don't like the idea, I'd suggest, in no particular order: Discipline (class skill) and Tumble (a cross class skill, availible only if you have Shadows of Undrentide), otherwise go with Heal or Lore (both of them are class skills). I'm only suggesting two skills because I assume that you intelligence will be at nine, as you probably don't want your character to have difficulties with interaction.[/QUOTE]

1) I have the latest, Diamond Edition (ie: NWN + SoU + HoTU + mods/toolset).

2) Please define "hardcore".

3) I'm actually thinking of going w/ these stats: 16 Str, 12 Dex, 16 Con, 10 Int, 10 Wis, 10 Cha.

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 8:15 pm

I see, that's good. I'd reccomend to go with tumble as it helps you avoid are of effect spells, some blows and it improves your armor, which barbarians kind of need with rage.

Ummm... by hardcore I meant a full barbarian. I'd personally suggest to do something like a barbarian/weaponmaster or perhaps a barbarian/bard/red dragon disciple.

Well, if you want to get some of those very nice epic feats (like Devestating Critical) I'd suggest pour everything you have into the first three stats. Charisma won't do you much good in battles unless you're a bard, sorceror or paladin. Intelligence is only god for skill points and mage spells, which you don't really need and you have no use for wisdom as a barbarian.

Have your Strength and Dexterity as high as possible. Constitution should go second.

You gain seven extra ability points between level one and fourty, so I'd suggest either balancing the first three ability scores or pooling all to strength. Note that you CAN gain additional ability points through epic feats, but I'd suggest getting something that helps in combat.

Get the highest rage ability, all the criticals and I'd tell you to stick with only one weapon.

Just so you know, without items, the highest strength you can get is 45;

20 (orc) + 7 (40 levels) + 10 (Great Strength) + (Red Dragon Disciple).

First see what abilities you want to get and make sure you meet the requirements for the prerequesites.

Galuf the Dwarf · Post by **Galuf the Dwarf** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 10:32 pm

Hey, wait a minute. What good is putting points in a skill like Tumble if I'm likely going to be wearing armor with AC penalties around -6? Since it's a cross-class skill, too, I'm really starting to think that's not a good idea.

Fiberfar · Post by **Fiberfar** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 7:29 am

[QUOTE=Crenshinibon]
Just so you know, without items, the highest strength you can get is 45;

20 (orc) + 7 (40 levels) + 10 (Great Strength) + (Red Dragon Disciple).

First see what abilities you want to get and make sure you meet the requirements for the prerequesites.[/QUOTE]

One ability point per fourth level (4, 8, 12, 16, 20, 24, 28, 32, 36 and 40)
That makes +10, not +7

Arius · Post by **Arius** » Fri Apr 14, 2006 1:54 am

[QUOTE=Galuf the Dwarf]Hey, wait a minute. What good is putting points in a skill like Tumble if I'm likely going to be wearing armor with AC penalties around -6? Since it's a cross-class skill, too, I'm really starting to think that's not a good idea.[/QUOTE]

As far as I remember in NwN your raw tumble skill is divided by 5 to determine the AC bonus you get due to tumble. So any armor check does not matter.