Devil in Baldur's Gate?

Murphypacker · Post by **Murphypacker** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 11:07 am

I love Neverwinter Nights and Shadows of Undrentide. I have seven characters playing singleplayer in different phases of these games,plus Pirates of the Sword Coast. I play an hour or two a day when possible and would rather do this than anything.

Recently I ran into Hell and the Devil in SoU. In the Bioware Forum, searching these topics, I find that HotU and NWN2 are heavily involved in Devil or Satan and Hell concepts. I won't use these for entertainment, so I am brokenhearted. I can still go through Neverwinter Nights OC and PotSC (I know you can Summon Belial in the OC, but you don't have to at all, and I don't.)

But I need a new game, as NWN2, SoU and HotU are closed to me.
I understand that the Baldur's Gate games are great and that if you like NWN you will enjoy them.

My question is, do these games make you deal with Satan, Devil, Hell? I know there are walkthroughs but I don't want to spoil the whole experience for myself. Any advice would be appreciated.

I am not interested in being argued out of this position, just in finding a Devil-less game.

Masa · Post by **Masa** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 11:20 am

No there's no satan or devil in baldur's gate I.
In baldur's gate II there are demons but no devil.
Spoiler: In the very end you get to hell but no devil in there.

Hope this helps ya out.

Eadaii · Post by **Eadaii** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 12:09 pm

In Baldur's Gate II, which is in my opinion the best game, there is no hell or satan (or even demons, unless you count vampires as demons.) Someone correct me if I'm wrong. I, at least, have never experianced these aspects, so if they're there, they're certainly not required.

P.S. It's been a long time since I played SoU, so just out of curiosity, where is the devil/hell concepts in it? I don't seem to remember it.

Masa · Post by **Masa** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 12:57 pm

Ahem tanarri, pit fiend ring any bells?
Again spoiler:

In the end where the main baddie goes to hell you go with him and kill him there thats where it ends.

Murphypacker · Post by **Murphypacker** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 2:26 pm

Devil in SoU (but not in BG, I hope!)

Thanks so much for the replies. I love balrogs, bodaks, vampires, yaun-tis, undead, mummies, cursed rangers, Old Ones, etc. The battle against evil is what it's all about! I just draw a special line at Satan, Devil, Hell, which I believe I must not approach in fun.

In SoU, in the City of Undrentide, there is a Great Library where you enter a novel. You go into a castle to rescue someone, and that is where you have to fight the Devil in Hell, in those very words. When I went to the Bioware forums to find out if this could be avoided without ruining the game, I ran into HotU and NWN2 being heavily involved in these concepts. What a horrid disappointment. So I decided, Murph, go find another similar game that's Devil-free, and I discovered that Baldur's Gate is much loved.

While we're on the subject, if anybody knows of Satan, Devil or Hell appearing in any of the Baldur's Gate series, let me know and I'll be grateful.

Ravager · Post by **Ravager** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 2:51 pm

[QUOTE=Murphypacker]I know you can Summon Belial in the OC, but you don't have to at all, and I don't.[/QUOTE]
Belial is a Demon Lord, evil, but not a representation of Satan or the Devil.
Forgotten Realms doesn't really include a specific comparison to Hell, rather planes that are linked to the concept of specific types of evil - Lawful, Neutral and Evil.
Mepistopheles in HotU isn't supposed to be an FR representation of Satan or the Devil (despite his appearance), he's more of an evil megalomaniac who wants to take over everything. There are many of these Demon Lords.

Okay, as for BG1, it contains a single Demon in the TotSC areas, that can definitely be avoided.
The Forgotten Realms mythology has a varied pantheon of deities linked to good, neutraility and evil, with one of the evil ones being tied into the Baldur's Gate series.

Cwell the fine · Post by **Cwell the fine** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 6:18 pm

As a very religious person, I do not find anything in Baldur's Gate 1 or 2 offensive. And if I were to see "Satan" or anything akin to that name in a game, I would find it offensive.

The "Hell" in BG2 isn't what I think most think Hell would really be like.

mr_sir · Post by **mr_sir** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 8:12 pm

Cwell the fine is right - the hell in BG2 is just like another dimension, not like how I think most people imagine hell at all. And there is no devil/satan figure at all in the game.

Murphypacker · Post by **Murphypacker** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 8:37 pm

Devils in Forgotten Realms, continued

Ravager, I agree with your analytical comments for the most part. (Very well put!) I was put off by Belial's name because it is a name of Satan found in the Hebrew Scriptures. There was no way I was going to summon him. Fortunately that just costs you the recovery of one of Eltoora's desired tomes and its recipe, and doesn't mess up the quest itself.

Cwell the fine, I thought of the same thing you did, that the representation of Hell and the Devil have little to do with the 'real thing'. Would that you could fight and maybe win at that point! For me it's not so much a question of being offended (as a religious person, it's easy for me to find much more offensive things than our beloved Forgotten Realms, which are full of the lore of old Christendom in such a pleasing way). It's a question of not wanting to get too close ... remember the Ouija Board in The Exorcist, which I accept as the author claimed, as being based on a real happening.

Anyway, thanks for taking my concerns seriously.

I went to the Bioware site to check out purchasing the original Baldur's Gate, and glanced at the forums for that game. I find that there are problems with compatibility with Windows XP Pro, as it's an older game. There are rumors of a Baldur's Gate III ... I may wait awhile. Any suggestions as to a new or at least newer game that has some of the charm of the Forgotten Realms but no Devil or Hell?

mr_sir · Post by **mr_sir** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 10:15 pm

There's Icewind Dale and Icewind Dale 2 - they have no hell-like stuff at all in them. They are a little different to BG1 & 2 in the sense you create an entire party, but they are still fun to play.

There is also Morrowind, although that is not set in the Forgotton Realms and has like a fake devil in it (i.e. a guy that tried to make himself into the devil of the region but is basically just a fake god)

Masa · Post by **Masa** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 7:00 am

Well Icewind dales lack a bit of the story side and are more fight oriented but if you like baldur's gates you'll like icewind dales too.
I have win xp pro and Baldur's gate runs just fine. About Baldur's gate III sadly they had it in the works but scrapped it and I don't think it's going to happen (at least in this decade *sigh*

).
Some info about it http://www.rpgcodex.com/gamedetails.php?id=88

kmonster · Post by **kmonster** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 7:30 am

I don't recommend BG2 to you, it is full of darkness, demons and other hellish things in a nearly pseudo-religious athmospheric story.

BG1 isn't that intensive, but since I don't know what exactly you can bear it might be too "hellish" for you too.

BG1 and BG2 also have the 2nd edition D&D rules which are totally different from the NWN 3E rules.

I recommend IWD2, it's the newest of the games using this engine and the only one using the more logical 3E rules and it is by far not as "hellish" as the BG series.

Murphypacker · Post by **Murphypacker** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 8:26 am

Thanks so much to everyone ...

for the valuable input: you are very kind. May your tribes increase!

I am much encouraged and am looking into Icewind Dales II, as being newer and Devil-free. Sorry to hear about Baldur's Gate III, Masa!

KMonster, I expect darkness in these stories. I expect strong evil ones who are setting themselves up as Evil Itself, but are phonies. It's my philosophy that Good is stronger in the end than Evil, and I love building a character who goes out, struggles, suffers, has fun, and proves that. I just draw the line at using any representation of an evil I believe to be real and powerful for my entertainment, and I don't even want to test that.

I realize this may seem odd to many others, and I appreciate the help and respect you responders have given me. It's costing me to stick to my guns in this matter -- I haven't yet told my friends and relations that I've stopped playing SoU and don't want NWN2 for my birthday, because they won't believe me!

Ravager · Post by **Ravager** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 12:45 pm

Murphypacker wrote:Ravager, I agree with your analytical comments for the most part. (Very well put!) I was put off by Belial's name because it is a name of Satan found in the Hebrew Scriptures.

Ahh, I wasn't aware of that.
In NWN, the name was linked to fire, I think.

There's Icewind Dale and Icewind Dale 2 - they have no hell-like stuff at all in them.

There is the demon called Belhifet in Icewind Dale 1....*shrugs*

RBitG · Post by **RBitG** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 3:32 pm

Also, Murphy, BGII is very strongly linked with the "God Of Murder" and has alot to do with his "devine essence" etc. etc. Just giving you a heads up.

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:24 pm

Spoiler

Spoiler

While it is not really in the religious context (at least I don't think so).... you do find yourself in Hell at BG 2's end...... But it is only really at the very end. Just so you are aware

Highlight to read above, contains spoilers relating to the BG2 ending.

Murphypacker · Post by **Murphypacker** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 1:26 pm

Thanks so much to RBitG and Devil Wench ...

for the headsup on the ending of BGII. It would have been a bummer to get there after a long happy journey ... I'd better not go there.

I have no problem with things like the 'divine magic' of Clerics etc., or the other religious overtones and undertones in these stories. Most stories with no religious overtones or undertones are pretty dry. The line I draw is simple: no Satan, Devil, Hell, or other names for these concepts I believe to be realities. I believe that Satan tries to get folks to approach him, using whatever, and I try my darndest not to approach him.

I don't see intentional harm being done by the designers of these games. They don't believe -- these are just more interesting legends to them. I don't regard it, in almost all cases, as their fault that they don't believe. I do think they could avoid this one area and keep a NWN-lover like me on board, but they probably don't realize how many of us there are. You responders from the GB community pretty much understand where I'm coming from and have tried to help me keep on enjoying D&D RPGs, and I appreciate that.

I've gone ahead and ordered the comprehensive version of Icewind Dale, with all the games in that series and containing all the patches. Wish me luck in its being compatible with my Windows XP Pro. Some have problems, some don't. Masa, your experience makes me hopeful. I have a computer games geek in my power who will make it work if anyone can.

fable · Post by **fable** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 2:48 pm

I'm closing this thread. The person who started it got the info they wanted, and now we're starting to get posts (though perfectly respectful ones) questioning that person about their religious views.

If you want to discuss religion, go to SYM (Speak Your Mind), our forum for such things. Do a search there, too, and you'll be surprised at the variety of discussion you'll find. But this isn't the place for it.