I played thru the Fat Larry/Traffik quest a couple of times in psycho-mode; that is, whacking everyone between the entrance and the briefcase before returning it to its new owner. However, on my third play-thru, as a feeble Nosferatu, I snuck past everyone without doing any killing by using obfuscate. Much to my amusement, as soon as the briefcase disappeared from view - I was invisible when I picked it up - the two rival gangs, apparently suspecting some foul play by their counterparts, *started killing each other*. It was a good, sneaky feeling to have the gangsters get rid of each other to facilitate an easy retreat with no opposition. BUT - this hasn't happened to me since, and I've played thru Bloodlines several more times, always sneaking thru Traffik to get the extra XP. When the briefcase disappears, the gangsters just keep standing there, and instead of having them remove each other, I have to sneak/fight my way out. Was the above-mentioned thing just a weird glitch or has this happened to anyone else?
In my opinion, it makes a lot of sense to have the gangsters behave that way: Fat Larry mentions that he needs a 'Yojimbo' to take care of a problem for him, and as someone pointed out here on the boards 'Yojimbo' is a Kurosawa film about a man who plays two rival groups against each other to get them to decimate each other and save himself the trouble. I should probably point out that as far as I remember, I've been using different patch versions on each play-thru. So was the Yojimbo scenario intended by the developers, and did it maybe disappear with one of the later, user-made patches? I'm confused, does anyone know the answers?
Traffik - has this happened to anyone else? *spoilers*
Maybe it had something to do with the obfuscate level as certain levels do not allow you to interact with anything without losing your invisibility, so they would then be able to spot you. Did you have high obfuscate when it happened, as then they probably wouldn't have been able to detect you at all and that may have triggered it? Saying that, however, I have never heard of this before so it could just be a bug or a result of one of the patches which was then fixed by a later patch.
As a Malk with Obfuscate, Ihave never had them start attcking each other, well for that matter even playing a other Clans like a Tremere.
Maybe that was a effect of the orginal game but version Offical patch 1.2 removed it, since the Unoffical Patches have no effect on actual gameplay.
Unoffical patches only effect things like dialogues, quest, and spellings for the most part.
Maybe that was a effect of the orginal game but version Offical patch 1.2 removed it, since the Unoffical Patches have no effect on actual gameplay.
Unoffical patches only effect things like dialogues, quest, and spellings for the most part.
Trust me, most of the names I have been called you can't translate in any language...they're not even real words as much as a succession of violent images.
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yrthwyndandfyre
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[QUOTE=Acleacius]As a Malk with Obfuscate, Ihave never had them start attcking each other, well for that matter even playing a other Clans like a Tremere.
Maybe that was a effect of the orginal game but version Offical patch 1.2 removed it, since the Unoffical Patches have no effect on actual gameplay.
Unoffical patches only effect things like dialogues, quest, and spellings for the most part.[/QUOTE]
I would venture that the Yojimbo crack is the trigger. Fat Larry has never told me he needed a Yojimbo, and the reference is correct. Yojimbo is an ancient Japanese legend that was the basis for the Kurosawa movie, "Last Man Standing", and a Clint Eastwood western whose title escapes me just now. In all cases, lone stranger goes into a town with two powerful feuding factions, plays each against the other, and they destroy each other.
Now, whether that's part of the original game, or introduced in some patch, I can't say. Maybe that dialog option is available in the original game, but only if you're a Nossie, or maybe only if you have a specific minimum level of obfuscate. I know I have always sneaked in, and have always had to fight my way out.
Maybe that was a effect of the orginal game but version Offical patch 1.2 removed it, since the Unoffical Patches have no effect on actual gameplay.
Unoffical patches only effect things like dialogues, quest, and spellings for the most part.[/QUOTE]
I would venture that the Yojimbo crack is the trigger. Fat Larry has never told me he needed a Yojimbo, and the reference is correct. Yojimbo is an ancient Japanese legend that was the basis for the Kurosawa movie, "Last Man Standing", and a Clint Eastwood western whose title escapes me just now. In all cases, lone stranger goes into a town with two powerful feuding factions, plays each against the other, and they destroy each other.
Now, whether that's part of the original game, or introduced in some patch, I can't say. Maybe that dialog option is available in the original game, but only if you're a Nossie, or maybe only if you have a specific minimum level of obfuscate. I know I have always sneaked in, and have always had to fight my way out.
Sic gorgiamos allos subjectatos nunc
(The Addams family motto: Gladly we feast on those who would subdue us)
Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy, and good with Ketchup.
(The Addams family motto: Gladly we feast on those who would subdue us)
Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy, and good with Ketchup.
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Anaximander
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I read through Larry's dialogue, and the python scripts for the downtown hub and adjacent maps. Larry does have some Nosferatu specific dialogue, but it's all about your appearance. It doesn't set any variables or trigger any special scripts.
There's no script that makes the gangs of the garage fight each other either, so if it's a coded event it's buried somewhere in the source code.
My best guess is that when you grabbed the briefcase Obfuscate was temporarily disabled. You were spotted, then moved back out of the thug's visual range and became invisible again. Still in aggro mode but lacking you for a target, the thug attacked his nearest enemy - one of the Tong.
It would be hard to duplicate something like that. The timing would have to be perfect.
There's no script that makes the gangs of the garage fight each other either, so if it's a coded event it's buried somewhere in the source code.
My best guess is that when you grabbed the briefcase Obfuscate was temporarily disabled. You were spotted, then moved back out of the thug's visual range and became invisible again. Still in aggro mode but lacking you for a target, the thug attacked his nearest enemy - one of the Tong.
It would be hard to duplicate something like that. The timing would have to be perfect.
".... for I had seen the Human face of the Vampires, and now I beheld the monstrousness of these Men..."
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cyberpaddy66
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yrthwyndandfyre
Guess your right it could be a trigger, but as I have always played females, I always get the Celeopatra Jones dialogue.
Since I like thrid person view and play RPGs for 10s of hours, there is no way in hell I gonna be staring at some guys ass, if I have anything to say about it.
" Yojimbo is an ancient Japanese legend that was the basis for the Kurosawa movie"
Damn that guy could make some seriously good movies, make me want to go watch Dreams or Ran.
Anaximander
Did you search for Yojimbo, too in Larry's dialogue?
I am kinda lazy right now, Unoffical 2.5 came out and I am just reaching Chnatown for testing.
Guess your right it could be a trigger, but as I have always played females, I always get the Celeopatra Jones dialogue.
Since I like thrid person view and play RPGs for 10s of hours, there is no way in hell I gonna be staring at some guys ass, if I have anything to say about it.
" Yojimbo is an ancient Japanese legend that was the basis for the Kurosawa movie"
Damn that guy could make some seriously good movies, make me want to go watch Dreams or Ran.
Anaximander
Did you search for Yojimbo, too in Larry's dialogue?
I am kinda lazy right now, Unoffical 2.5 came out and I am just reaching Chnatown for testing.
Trust me, most of the names I have been called you can't translate in any language...they're not even real words as much as a succession of violent images.
The Yojimbo reference is, IIRC, standard fare for the male characters, except for the Nosferatu (where there is some reference to "Gremlin"). But probably noone here plays much with male characters for reasons Aclaecius so eloquently stated.
And BTW, the Sergio Leone Western version of Yojimbo was "For a Fistful of Dollars".
And BTW, the Sergio Leone Western version of Yojimbo was "For a Fistful of Dollars".
I think that God in creating man somewhat overestimated his ability.
- Oscar Wilde
The church is near but the road is icy; the bar is far away but I'll walk carefully.
- Russian proverb
- Oscar Wilde
The church is near but the road is icy; the bar is far away but I'll walk carefully.
- Russian proverb
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Anaximander
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I did indeed search for Yojimbo in Larry's dailoge. He mentions the name once, if the character is male and is not Nosferatu. This line and it's female/Nosferatu counterparts set the variable G.Larry_Action to 2. This variable has no effect on anything outside of Larry's dialogue.
".... for I had seen the Human face of the Vampires, and now I beheld the monstrousness of these Men..."
I guess it was just some sort of extremely weird occurance rather than something that was supposed to happen. Ironic, then, that it happened when I was playing as a Nosferatu who, according to the more knowledgeable people on the board, don't actually get the 'Yojimbo' line. Maybe that scene was intended, but just didn't work? The un-patched "Bloodlines", while a wonderful game, wasn't exactly bug-free. I just thought the Yojimbo reference coupled with the two gangs killing each other was a really clever Kurusawa tribute, but that might just be me being a film nerd. But thanks, useful replies all round!
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yrthwyndandfyre
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[QUOTE=Acleacius]
Since I like thrid person view and play RPGs for 10s of hours, there is no way in hell I gonna be staring at some guys ass, if I have anything to say about it. [/QUOTE]
Well, I like first person, so that's not a factor. Besides, any female watching the female Tremere character running in third person would have to say that the animators gave her an extremely flabby behind. The other female models are probably much the same. I play female for the three most obvious reasons.
As the so-called 'weaker sex', they should be at a disadvantage in combat - I like a challenge.
As the so-called 'fairer sex', they should be quite a distraction for all of the heavily armed and testosterone-poisoned male opponents they are likely to meet - therefore, they improve the surprise factor. If a scantily clad female walks into the view of a couple of testosterone-poisoned male guards, they are unlikely to shoot on sight until they have had a really good sight. I have no way to know if that is actually coded into the mechanics of the game, but lets face it. Most of these programmers are guys. Thus, the femme fatale has the option of flirting with the girls and guys (ergo bi), and using sex to get past some obstacles (hence an additional ability). I like a challenge, but I'm not above using the programmer's weaknesses against them, either. Five gets you ten the male characters don't get to flirt with any of the males, correct?
I always construct dialog in my head during play. Things that I would say or would like to hear others say, or I imagine unknown other people might be saying. So I imagine things (off screen - the boss reacting to the report he was just given by one of his flunkies after your rampage): "WHAAATTT!! They were all killed!!! BY ONE GIRL!!! WHAT AM I PAYING YOU FOR!!!!!"
That just cracks me up.
Since I like thrid person view and play RPGs for 10s of hours, there is no way in hell I gonna be staring at some guys ass, if I have anything to say about it.
[/QUOTE]Well, I like first person, so that's not a factor. Besides, any female watching the female Tremere character running in third person would have to say that the animators gave her an extremely flabby behind. The other female models are probably much the same. I play female for the three most obvious reasons.
As the so-called 'weaker sex', they should be at a disadvantage in combat - I like a challenge.
As the so-called 'fairer sex', they should be quite a distraction for all of the heavily armed and testosterone-poisoned male opponents they are likely to meet - therefore, they improve the surprise factor. If a scantily clad female walks into the view of a couple of testosterone-poisoned male guards, they are unlikely to shoot on sight until they have had a really good sight. I have no way to know if that is actually coded into the mechanics of the game, but lets face it. Most of these programmers are guys. Thus, the femme fatale has the option of flirting with the girls and guys (ergo bi), and using sex to get past some obstacles (hence an additional ability). I like a challenge, but I'm not above using the programmer's weaknesses against them, either. Five gets you ten the male characters don't get to flirt with any of the males, correct?
I always construct dialog in my head during play. Things that I would say or would like to hear others say, or I imagine unknown other people might be saying. So I imagine things (off screen - the boss reacting to the report he was just given by one of his flunkies after your rampage): "WHAAATTT!! They were all killed!!! BY ONE GIRL!!! WHAT AM I PAYING YOU FOR!!!!!"
That just cracks me up.
Sic gorgiamos allos subjectatos nunc
(The Addams family motto: Gladly we feast on those who would subdue us)
Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy, and good with Ketchup.
(The Addams family motto: Gladly we feast on those who would subdue us)
Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy, and good with Ketchup.
"Besides, any female watching the female Tremere character running in third person would have to say that the animators gave her an extremely flabby behind"
Wow we must be playing a different game or we just know different women.
I thought of all the PC charaters the female Tremere was the best looking, I was never really impressed with any of the PC models compared to how well the NPCs looked.
Personally I use Heather's Goth skin most of the time, as standard ingame skin (not modded) it is my favorite, also used Jeanette, Threse, VV, Gothgirl (white dress), Phisha and many others.
"Five gets you ten the male characters don't get to flirt with any of the males, correct?"
Errr, to quote Skelter, "I am not sure I want to know"
Wow we must be playing a different game or we just know different women.
I thought of all the PC charaters the female Tremere was the best looking, I was never really impressed with any of the PC models compared to how well the NPCs looked.
Personally I use Heather's Goth skin most of the time, as standard ingame skin (not modded) it is my favorite, also used Jeanette, Threse, VV, Gothgirl (white dress), Phisha and many others.
"Five gets you ten the male characters don't get to flirt with any of the males, correct?"
Errr, to quote Skelter, "I am not sure I want to know"
Trust me, most of the names I have been called you can't translate in any language...they're not even real words as much as a succession of violent images.
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yrthwyndandfyre
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[QUOTE=Acleacius]"Besides, any female watching the female Tremere character running in third person would have to say that the animators gave her an extremely flabby behind"
Wow we must be playing a different game or we just know different women. [/QUOTE]
Frankly, I doubt it. Take a Tremere female, right from the get-go, go into 3rd person, and run. Watch. At first glance, Not bad. Look closely, though. Her wiggle is waggling about 40% farther than it should. Like I'm talking extreme umgrage. Like disjointed spine umbrage. Like wearing an apparatus umbrage. Like Jell-O in your panties umbrage. Look close.
Wow we must be playing a different game or we just know different women.
[/QUOTE]Frankly, I doubt it. Take a Tremere female, right from the get-go, go into 3rd person, and run. Watch. At first glance, Not bad. Look closely, though. Her wiggle is waggling about 40% farther than it should. Like I'm talking extreme umgrage. Like disjointed spine umbrage. Like wearing an apparatus umbrage. Like Jell-O in your panties umbrage. Look close.
Sic gorgiamos allos subjectatos nunc
(The Addams family motto: Gladly we feast on those who would subdue us)
Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy, and good with Ketchup.
(The Addams family motto: Gladly we feast on those who would subdue us)
Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy, and good with Ketchup.
[QUOTE=yrthwyndandfyre] Five gets you ten the male characters don't get to flirt with any of the males, correct?[/QUOTE]Uhm, not really:
Tommy Flayton can be seduced by males only to solve the quest (yes females also get a pink seduction line, but Tommy reacts rather negatively and it doesn't advance the quest).
And the guy who's standing around in front of the building where Mercurio lives can also be seduced by males (it might even be easier for males than for females but not 100% sure).
And thoug the guard at the beach house does not react exactly positively on your advances, he does let you pass
And I'm sure I missed out on a few others. But since I tend to prefer to play with a female character, I did not test all..
Oh and, BTW, the wiggle is the same for males and females.
Tommy Flayton can be seduced by males only to solve the quest (yes females also get a pink seduction line, but Tommy reacts rather negatively and it doesn't advance the quest).
And the guy who's standing around in front of the building where Mercurio lives can also be seduced by males (it might even be easier for males than for females but not 100% sure).
And thoug the guard at the beach house does not react exactly positively on your advances, he does let you pass
And I'm sure I missed out on a few others. But since I tend to prefer to play with a female character, I did not test all..
Oh and, BTW, the wiggle is the same for males and females.
I think that God in creating man somewhat overestimated his ability.
- Oscar Wilde
The church is near but the road is icy; the bar is far away but I'll walk carefully.
- Russian proverb
- Oscar Wilde
The church is near but the road is icy; the bar is far away but I'll walk carefully.
- Russian proverb
I was playing as a Tremere vamp, stealth killing everyone on the upper levels and a few on the level where the deal was taking place. I managed to get the extra pts. I don't know how it happens - maybe you have to wait for some conversation to happen or the NPCs to move into position - but the shootout has happened at least twice for me.
"Being a soldier isn't just following orders, it's following those orders in the service of a higher cause. When that cause is betrayed, we're not soldiers anymore - just pieces on a chess board dying for the wrong reasons." Sam Carter, Deus Ex
Funny thing, the reward of extra points actually says "Without anyone noticing you" so maybe you Stealthed so well noone ever was alerted.
Though I haven't looked at the actual file to see what it's based on most Stealth misson extra points are based on No Kills, this one could be different.
Though I haven't looked at the actual file to see what it's based on most Stealth misson extra points are based on No Kills, this one could be different.
Trust me, most of the names I have been called you can't translate in any language...they're not even real words as much as a succession of violent images.
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Jhereg
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** Spoiler **
Hmm. Been awhile.
Just a brief update (spoiler blacked out):
Hmm. Been awhile.
Just a brief update (spoiler blacked out):
Spoiler
You can actually kill as many of the guards as you want on your way through the garage, as long as you aren't noticed. My next pass through, I'm going to see how many I can off going down and still get the bonus.
"No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between the shoulder blades will seriously cramp his style." Steven K.Z. Brust, "Jhereg", ISBN 0-441-38553-2, Chapter 17, prologue.
The fight is triggered by getting the suitcase regardless of wether you were noticed before or not. As far as I remember this was buggy for certain cases in the original release though and I had to fix it in the unofficial patch to work always.tremachon wrote:I did get the shooting scene too. It was a Malkavian with obfuscate 3. Became visible, then invisble again without moving and they started. I thought this was normal, but maybe it doesn't work with higher obfuscte levels. The patch was 4.4.