New member / Paladin Party

[Jolly Jumper]

Hello everybody

First of all I have to apologize if i make some mistakes with my english. I'm not an english native... anyway, I hope you will understand.

I've just rediscovered this amazing game cause last time i played it was long ago. I have also discovered this great page.

Well, to the point.
My new party is:

PC: Assasin
Korgan
Edwin
Jaheira (I want to try the romance)
Mazzy (I love Mazzy, she is the best, never complaining about anything)

What do you think about it? Is it going to be difficult? If I am not wrong there is no trouble with the relation between Mazzy and Korgan and Edwin, right?

However, the main point of this post is to recopilate opinions about a party I am thinking to develop. It will goes as follows:

Cavalier (Two weapon style)
Dead Hunter (Weapon and shield)
Inquisitor (Two handed sword)
Priest of Thalander
Sorcerer
Bounty Hunter

I think the class specialization is one of the best features of this game so this would be a party of specialists. It also like the three paladins are hired the rest of the group to make a crusade against the evil

Again, I would like your opinions about this.

Thanks in advance.

[Deadalready]

That's a pretty cool looking evil party, I think it still needs a mage/thief in there though because your assassin won't have enough points into most skills to unlock and untrap things.


I'd create a multiclass one personally, or use Imoen...

[CFM]

My new party is:

PC: Assasin
Korgan
Edwin
Jaheira (I want to try the romance)
Mazzy (I love Mazzy, she is the best, never complaining about anything)

What do you think about it? Is it going to be difficult? If I am not wrong there is no trouble with the relation between Mazzy and Korgan and Edwin, right?

I think that party is great. You wouldn't guess this, but Korgan & Mazzy are actually a very good pair to have together, because they have alot of interesting banter.

The Jaheira Romance is somewhat buggy. Search the forum for details. Maybe try Viconia as your 6th NPC? I think a cleric compliments a druid well... and you may decide to romance V instead.

Mazzy will get along with anybody (I think). But will she drop you if you choose the 'evil' path when it comes to Aran/Bodhi?

[Pellinore]

Cavalier (Two weapon style)
Dead Hunter (Weapon and shield)
Inquisitor (Two handed sword)
Priest of Thalander
Sorcerer
Bounty Hunter

I think the class specialization is one of the best features of this game so this would be a party of specialists. It also like the three paladins are hired the rest of the group to make a crusade against the evil

I think the entire party aside from the sorcerer don't need to be hired but working for a common goal. Even the sorcerer if you are hunting a spell wielder has something in common. I would be more inclined to make the priest multi or dual classed cleric but thats just me personally. I think its great.

[Jolly Jumper]

Thanks for your replies

Posted by Deadalready

That's a pretty cool looking evil party, I think it still needs a mage/thief in there though because your assassin won't have enough points into most skills to unlock and untrap things.

I'd create a multiclass one personally, or use Imoen...

That's a problem cause I thought an assasin was going to be able to manage any lock and trap troughout SOA and TOB. If I dont give him any point in detect ilussion and steal, will be enough?

Also, how many points do you think are necessary to put in move silently and hide in shadows?

I remember to have read in the forum that Imoen is not enough to open and disarm anything, am I right? Cause Imo would be an option althoug I prefer a group of five (six classes in total)

Posted by CFM

The Jaheira Romance is somewhat buggy. Search the forum for details. Maybe try Viconia as your 6th NPC? I think a cleric compliments a druid well... and you may decide to romance V instead.

Mazzy will get along with anybody (I think). But will she drop you if you choose the 'evil' path when it comes to Aran/Bodhi?

I'd like to try Jaheria's romance, besides I can't stand Viconia's voice, it gets me crazy

No problem with Mazzy. Bodhi has just refused to offer anything. She realized I am a proud thief and I am not going to betray the Shadow Thiefs.

Another question:

Wich weapon will you give to Mazzy?

I'm thinking to have Korgan with axes, hammers and two handed style, so probably the best option for Mazzy will be the Foa (and mazes) and a shield.

What do you think?

Again, thanks in advance

[Deadalready]

That's a problem cause I thought an assasin was going to be able to manage any lock and trap troughout SOA and TOB. If I dont give him any point in detect ilussion and steal, will be enough?

Also, how many points do you think are necessary to put in move silently and hide in shadows?

It takes a little trial and error I can't remember how many points I had in my skill but I think mine was around 168 points in Hide in Shadow, Sneak about 120. I can't remember the exact numbers but I also had lots of items adding to it too, remember that Hide in Shadows is more important than Sneak.


Which weapon will you give to Mazzy?

I'm thinking to have Korgan with axes, hammers and two handed style, so probably the best option for Mazzy will be the Foa (and mazes) and a shield.

I haven' tried it myself but I've heard Mazzy is unbelievable when hasted with Tanshiron's bow. Any bow would work but best results are with Tanshiron's.

[CFM]

Regarding Imoen, Assassins, and having to Open Locks & Find Traps:

When I played, Imoen was my lone thief throughout the entire Saga, except of course when she was visiting Spellhold. For BG2, I had her wear those rings that enhance the Open Lock & Find Trap abilities, and I never had an issue opening any lock or finding any trap. And she's only a 7th level Thief.

Now I know Assassins get 5% points less when they level, but even so, with the speed that Thieves level up, it be hard to believe an Assassin couldn't quickly get several abilities into the high double digits.

Oh, and I forgot a PC Thief can't join Bodhi.

I'd say Mazzy is built for Short Bow, Short Sword, and Single-Weapon proficiencies.

[Deadalready]

Bounty Hunters get 5 points per level, assassins get much less than that. I don't remember how many points less they get but only have 15 points to distribute per level.

Considering an assassin needs to have lots of points into Hide and Sneak immediately it makes it very hard to have enough points to go around.

[es-0]

he gets -10 points, but if you really want him to be your all around thief you can try using potions, rings, spells, of invisibility

[Lancelot122]

Assassin skills

Yes, an assassin does have 10 less skills than a regular thief each time he level up, so you have 15 skills points instead of 25.

Now, does that mean that you need another thief for those nasty traps and locks? Heck no! Now, why?

Let's say you are an halfling (LoTR style:laugh: )assassin, you have the fallowing race bonuses: +5 Pickpocket, +5 Lockpick, +5 set snares, +15 Hide in shadow and the base is 15/10/5/10, so you have 20/15/10/25.

Now, as it is the most important skill for a thief, you have 19 in dex, don't you? Great, that's what I tought, so +15/+20/+10/+15. That leaves you with 35/35/20/40.

I had no information on Find trap and Move silently base, so I made an halfling 19 dex assassin myself and got 20/40 base. So 35 Pickpocket, 35 Lock pick, 20 set snares, 40 hide in shadow (35 actually, when i made the char...weird, cause the tables were clears...anyway) 20 find trap and 40 move silently.

Then, the first level a standard thief receives 30 points instead of 25, so an assassin gets 20 (that part, I'm not a hundred percent sure, but it is very likely).

When you start a new game, you have 145 points, wich you can distribute as you wish.

I would suggest as the fallowing: 45 hide in shadow, 20 in Move silently, 60 in Find trap and 20 in Lock pick. You new assassin has now 80 in Hide in Shadow, 60 in Move silently, 80 in Find Trap and 55 in Lock Pick.

Keep in mind you need 100 in find trap and lock pick, in order to find/remove any trap in the game. Many items will help you, for exemple I made my choice with the mercyless ring and the boots of stealth in mind, because they are a "must have" for any thief and they are easy to get fairly early in the game. With those 2 items, you have 115 in Hide in shadow (enough for the entire game, tob included), 100 Move silently (enough too), 80 in Find trap and 55 in Lock pit. The first two level you can put your points in lock pit (before you can use a potion of master thievery, you even get one in Irenicus Dungeon... ) and you're in business!

[Pellinore]

If you have a Bard in the game you don't need PickPocket on your thief...just ignore it.

[VonDondu]

If you have a Bard in the game you don't need PickPocket on your thief...just ignore it.

You can ignore the Pick Pocketing skill even if you don't have a Bard in your party. If your Assassin/Thief has 35 points in Pick Pockets, all you have to do is drink five Potions of Master Thievery and you can raise it to 235, which is enough to steal from any NPC or any merchant in the game.

Yes, an assassin does have 10 less skills than a regular thief each time he level up, so you have 15 skills points instead of 25.

Now, does that mean that you need another thief for those nasty traps and locks? Heck no! Now, why?

Let's say you are an halfling (LoTR style:laugh: )assassin, you have the fallowing race bonuses: +5 Pickpocket, +5 Lockpick, +5 set snares, +15 Hide in shadow and the base is 15/10/5/10, so you have 20/15/10/25.

Now, as it is the most important skill for a thief, you have 19 in dex, don't you? Great, that's what I tought, so +15/+20/+10/+15. That leaves you with 35/35/20/40.

I had no information on Find trap and Move silently base, so I made an halfling 19 dex assassin myself and got 20/40 base. So 35 Pickpocket, 35 Lock pick, 20 set snares, 40 hide in shadow (35 actually, when i made the char...weird, cause the tables were clears...anyway) 20 find trap and 40 move silently.

Then, the first level a standard thief receives 30 points instead of 25, so an assassin gets 20 (that part, I'm not a hundred percent sure, but it is very likely).

When you start a new game, you have 145 points, wich you can distribute as you wish.

I would suggest as the fallowing: 45 hide in shadow, 20 in Move silently, 60 in Find trap and 20 in Lock pick. You new assassin has now 80 in Hide in Shadow, 60 in Move silently, 80 in Find Trap and 55 in Lock Pick.

Keep in mind you need 100 in find trap and lock pick, in order to find/remove any trap in the game. Many items will help you...

That's some nice research. But I have a couple of extra suggestions.

First of all, if you want to pick every lock and disarm every trap in Irenicus's dungeon, you need 90 points in Open Locks and 90 points in Find Traps. Imoen has enough thieving points to do it. You can also get through most of the game with skills like that. (That's why Imoen can handle most of your thieving needs for the rest of the game after you rescue her.) The question is whether you want to rely on your Assassin to open locks and disarm traps or whether you want him to start backstabbing as soon as possible. Well, I don't think an 8th or 10th Level Assassin is going to hit many opponents in Irenicus's Dungeon if you try to backstab them (THAC0 17, low strength bonus, and no weapons over +1 give you pretty poor odds), so if your Assassin isn't opening locks and disarming traps, he's not much good for anything. You'd better bring along Minsc and let him kill everything for you.

Let's look at your thieving point distribution for an 8th Level Halfling Assassin. You start with the following plus 145 points to distribute:

35 Pick Pockets
35 Open Locks
20 Find Traps
40 Move Silently
35 Hide in Shadows
0 Detect Illusion
10 Set Traps

Yep, a Halfling Assassin with 19 Dexterity is about as good as you can get. I would put 55 points in Open Locks and 70 points in Find Traps and put the rest in Hide in Shadows:

35 Pick Pockets
90 Open Locks
90 Find Traps
40 Move Silently
55 Hide in Shadows
0 Detect Illusion
10 Set Traps

You can see that the character is pretty limited at 8th Level. If you start with 161,000 experience points, your Assassin is 10th Level and you get 30 extra skill points, which helps.

At 15th Level, your character starts to shine. By that time, you can put 60 more points in Move Silently and 45 more points in Hide in Shadows, which gives him a decent chance of sneaking up on your opponents:

35 Pick Pockets
90 Open Locks
90 Find Traps
100 Move Silently
100 Hide in Shadows
0 Detect Illusion
10 Set Traps

For the time being, you might as well ignore Pick Pockets (which you can raise with Potions of Master Thievery), Detect Illusions (you'll get enough points for that later), and Set Traps (ditto). You should continue putting points in Move Silently and Hide in Shadows (120 is probably enough). 120 in Open Locks and 120 in Find Traps will let you find every trap and open every lock in Throne of Bhaal (which is somewhat more difficult than Shadows of Amn).

Of course, you still have the problem of THAC0, which is 13 at 15th Level. A Girdle of Hill Giant Strength (+3), a +3 weapon, and the invisibility bonus (+4) help a lot and give you a THAC0 of 3. As I said, at 15th Level, an Assassin starts to shine.