Just curious: What would your ultimate powergaming party look like? I'm talking BG & TotSC, no mods or XP cap removers or cheats.
You can use NPCs or create the NPCs.
Looking forward to some results.
Powergaming... what would your party look like?
Powergaming... what would your party look like?
"A life is not important, except in the impact it has on other lives."
-- Jackie Robinson
Baruk Khazad! Khazad ai-mênu!
-- Jackie Robinson
Baruk Khazad! Khazad ai-mênu!
Interesting question. Here are some of the first things that come to mind:
Human 6th Level Fighter dualled to Thief #1
STR: 18/8x (maximum)
DEX: 18 (maximum)
CON: 18 (maximum)
INT: 9 (minimum required to use wands and read scrolls, I think)
WIS: 3+ (non-essential)
CHA: 18 (only one of your characters needs maximum Charisma to talk to merchants and NPCs)
At 6th Level, he will have three proficiency points in Large Swords and three proficiency points in Bows. When he dual-classes at 32,000 experience points, he will put all of his thieving points in Stealth and Open Locks. He will only be able to put one proficiency point in each weapon type from that point on (I checked), but he will regain his Fighter THAC0 and attack bonuses when he reaches 7th Level Thief at a relatively low 40,000 experience points. With a 161,000 point experience cap, he can be a 9th Level Thief with a 4x backstab multiplier. His primary role will be a backstabber, but he will also be an excellent sniper--he can shoot, run, hide, and repeat. Given the fact that he's a 6th Level Fighter with optimum stats and proficiency points, he's also as good in a standup fight as any other 6th Level warrior, especially if you equip him with heavy armor. When he's a 9th Level Thief, he'll have almost the same number of hit points as an 8th Level Fighter. (We're not concerned with Inquisitors who wield Carsomyr or Fighter/Druids who cast Ironskins in this game.) I picture him wielding Frostbrand or Rashad's Talon and a +1 Composite Longbow. If you think you'll have to wait too long for him to regain his Fighter abilities, you can dual-class at 5th Level (16,000 experience points), but you won't be able to put three proficiency points in both of his weapon types and his THAC0 will be one point higher than a 6th Level Fighter's.
Human 6th Level Fighter dualled to Thief #2
STR: 18/8x (maximum)
DEX: 18 (maximum)
CON: 18 (maximum)
INT: 9 (minimum required to use wands and read scrolls, I think)
WIS: 3+ (non-essential)
CHA: 18 (only one of your characters needs maximum Charisma to talk to merchants and NPCs)
At 6th Level, he will have three proficiency points in Bows and three proficiency points in Large Swords or Blunt Weapons. If you'd like to use the best backstabbing weapon in the game (the Staff of Striking), put proficiency points in Blunt Weapons instead of Large Swords. When he dual-classes at 32,000 experience points, he will put all of his thieving points in Stealth and Find Traps (to complement the Open Locks skill of Fighter/Thief #1). Everything else I said about Fighter/Thief #1 also applies to this character.
Elven Fighter
STR: 18/8x (maximum)
DEX: 19 (maximum)
CON: 17 (maximum)
INT: 9 (minimum required to use wands and read scrolls, I think)
WIS: 3+ (non-essential)
CHA: 18 (only one of your characters needs maximum Charisma to talk to merchants and NPCs)
This single-class Fighter will specialize in Bows and Large Swords. I think Elves are supposed to get a +1 bonus for longswords and longbows, so those will be his weapons of choice. I picture him with a +2 longsword and shield when he's tanking. At 8th Level, he will gain an extra half attack per round, and he'll be the best archer in the game. Before the Fighter/Thieves regain their Fighter abilities, he will be the group's tank. You can still use him as a tank after the Fighter/Thieves regain their Fighter abilities, but archery will probably be his most useful skill. Compared to your Fighter/Thieves, he will have a +2 THAC0 advantage and an extra half attack per round for having two extra Fighter levels. However, at 8th Level (161,000 experience points), he will actually have up to 4 hit points less than your Fighter/Thieves (maximum 8x13=104 versus maximum (6x14)+(3x8)=108), although a Manual of Bodily Health (Constitution 18) would give the Fighter 8 additional hit points.
Human 5th Level Thief dualled to Specialist Mage (Imoen could fill this role if you want her to)
STR: 18 (maximum)
DEX: 18 (maximum)
CON: 16 (for maximum hit points)
INT: 18 (maximum)
WIS: 3+ (non-essential)
CHA: 3+ (non-essential, or maxed out if you want to use Friends)
This character will serve primarily as a Mage. Some people prefer an Illusionist, but I think I'd prefer a Conjurer. It only takes 10,000 experience points to create a 5th Level Thief, so if you want a Mage in your party, you might as well play a dual-classed Thief. While the burly Fighter/Thieves are levelling up as Fighters, this character can handle basic thieving needs and provide ranged support. I'd put her thieving points in Open Locks and Stealth and maybe a few in Pickpocketing. If you don't care about Pickpocketing, you could put a few points in Find Traps, but she'll be mediocre at everything if you don't concentrate most of her points in only one skill. You could also make her a 6th Level Thief (20,000 experience points) for a couple of extra hit points and 20 extra thieving points. That would also allow you to use her thieving skills a little while longer before you dual class the Fighter/Thieves. But since her main thieving skill is Open Locks (as I envision it), you can substitute Knock when she duals to a Mage. There are practically no time limits in the game, so you can rest and memorize spells as often as you need to.
The only other character you need is some sort of healer. Branwen or Viconia could fill the role. I'm thinking of a single-class Cleric instead of a Druid or a Cleric/Mage or something else that would only confuse me, but maybe there's some advantage to playing a Druid that I have missed all along. (Shapechange? I don't know.) The only stats you need to worry about are Dexterity (for Missile Weapon bonuses) and Wisdom (for the maximum number of spells). Viconia's magic resistance is nice sometimes, but it's annoying when she "resists" her own healing spells. (The DudleyFix Pack takes care of that by making "party friendly" spells ignore magic resistance, but before you use it, make sure you don't mind the other changes they've made to Priest and Wizard spells.)
You probably know how to "milk the experience cows" (I think of that as exploiting your own knowledge as a player rather than cheating), but a four- or five-member party is preferable to a six-member party because a smaller party can level up faster. If your characters max out their experience before they reach the end of the game, that will actually be a good thing from a powergaming point of view, because they'll be so awesome at their maximum levels and you'll get to enjoy it for a while.
Tomes are always on the minds of powergamers. Like using a maxi-min tactic for your characters' stat rolls, planning how you will use the Tomes is yet another way to exploit your own knowledge of the game. In this case, the choices are pretty obvious. Your Fighter/Thieves can fight over the Manual of Gainful Exercise and the Manual of Quickness of Action; you'll probably want to give the Manual of Bodily Health to your Elven Fighter, who would benefit the most from the extra hit points; your Thief/Mage gets the Tome of Clear Thought; your Cleric gets all three Tomes of Understanding; and whoever does most of the talking for the group gets the Tome of Leadership and Influence.
SPOILER: One of your characters will also acquire a special power after each dream, which might include Draw Upon Holy Might, so choose your party leader carefully.
All of the really tough battles can be won by using summoned monsters to form a shield around your most vulnerable characters while they use ranged weapons and/or spells while your Fighter/Thieves backstab the heck out of your enemies. SPOILERS: This applies to Avarice, the Demon Knight, Aec'Letec the Nabassu, and Sarevok & Company. At lower levels, the game won't exactly be a cakewalk, and the TOTSC areas will always be challenging, but you'll plow right over most of the monsters or decimate them with ranged weapons before they ever reach you.
Human 6th Level Fighter dualled to Thief #1
STR: 18/8x (maximum)
DEX: 18 (maximum)
CON: 18 (maximum)
INT: 9 (minimum required to use wands and read scrolls, I think)
WIS: 3+ (non-essential)
CHA: 18 (only one of your characters needs maximum Charisma to talk to merchants and NPCs)
At 6th Level, he will have three proficiency points in Large Swords and three proficiency points in Bows. When he dual-classes at 32,000 experience points, he will put all of his thieving points in Stealth and Open Locks. He will only be able to put one proficiency point in each weapon type from that point on (I checked), but he will regain his Fighter THAC0 and attack bonuses when he reaches 7th Level Thief at a relatively low 40,000 experience points. With a 161,000 point experience cap, he can be a 9th Level Thief with a 4x backstab multiplier. His primary role will be a backstabber, but he will also be an excellent sniper--he can shoot, run, hide, and repeat. Given the fact that he's a 6th Level Fighter with optimum stats and proficiency points, he's also as good in a standup fight as any other 6th Level warrior, especially if you equip him with heavy armor. When he's a 9th Level Thief, he'll have almost the same number of hit points as an 8th Level Fighter. (We're not concerned with Inquisitors who wield Carsomyr or Fighter/Druids who cast Ironskins in this game.) I picture him wielding Frostbrand or Rashad's Talon and a +1 Composite Longbow. If you think you'll have to wait too long for him to regain his Fighter abilities, you can dual-class at 5th Level (16,000 experience points), but you won't be able to put three proficiency points in both of his weapon types and his THAC0 will be one point higher than a 6th Level Fighter's.
Human 6th Level Fighter dualled to Thief #2
STR: 18/8x (maximum)
DEX: 18 (maximum)
CON: 18 (maximum)
INT: 9 (minimum required to use wands and read scrolls, I think)
WIS: 3+ (non-essential)
CHA: 18 (only one of your characters needs maximum Charisma to talk to merchants and NPCs)
At 6th Level, he will have three proficiency points in Bows and three proficiency points in Large Swords or Blunt Weapons. If you'd like to use the best backstabbing weapon in the game (the Staff of Striking), put proficiency points in Blunt Weapons instead of Large Swords. When he dual-classes at 32,000 experience points, he will put all of his thieving points in Stealth and Find Traps (to complement the Open Locks skill of Fighter/Thief #1). Everything else I said about Fighter/Thief #1 also applies to this character.
Elven Fighter
STR: 18/8x (maximum)
DEX: 19 (maximum)
CON: 17 (maximum)
INT: 9 (minimum required to use wands and read scrolls, I think)
WIS: 3+ (non-essential)
CHA: 18 (only one of your characters needs maximum Charisma to talk to merchants and NPCs)
This single-class Fighter will specialize in Bows and Large Swords. I think Elves are supposed to get a +1 bonus for longswords and longbows, so those will be his weapons of choice. I picture him with a +2 longsword and shield when he's tanking. At 8th Level, he will gain an extra half attack per round, and he'll be the best archer in the game. Before the Fighter/Thieves regain their Fighter abilities, he will be the group's tank. You can still use him as a tank after the Fighter/Thieves regain their Fighter abilities, but archery will probably be his most useful skill. Compared to your Fighter/Thieves, he will have a +2 THAC0 advantage and an extra half attack per round for having two extra Fighter levels. However, at 8th Level (161,000 experience points), he will actually have up to 4 hit points less than your Fighter/Thieves (maximum 8x13=104 versus maximum (6x14)+(3x8)=108), although a Manual of Bodily Health (Constitution 18) would give the Fighter 8 additional hit points.
Human 5th Level Thief dualled to Specialist Mage (Imoen could fill this role if you want her to)
STR: 18 (maximum)
DEX: 18 (maximum)
CON: 16 (for maximum hit points)
INT: 18 (maximum)
WIS: 3+ (non-essential)
CHA: 3+ (non-essential, or maxed out if you want to use Friends)
This character will serve primarily as a Mage. Some people prefer an Illusionist, but I think I'd prefer a Conjurer. It only takes 10,000 experience points to create a 5th Level Thief, so if you want a Mage in your party, you might as well play a dual-classed Thief. While the burly Fighter/Thieves are levelling up as Fighters, this character can handle basic thieving needs and provide ranged support. I'd put her thieving points in Open Locks and Stealth and maybe a few in Pickpocketing. If you don't care about Pickpocketing, you could put a few points in Find Traps, but she'll be mediocre at everything if you don't concentrate most of her points in only one skill. You could also make her a 6th Level Thief (20,000 experience points) for a couple of extra hit points and 20 extra thieving points. That would also allow you to use her thieving skills a little while longer before you dual class the Fighter/Thieves. But since her main thieving skill is Open Locks (as I envision it), you can substitute Knock when she duals to a Mage. There are practically no time limits in the game, so you can rest and memorize spells as often as you need to.
The only other character you need is some sort of healer. Branwen or Viconia could fill the role. I'm thinking of a single-class Cleric instead of a Druid or a Cleric/Mage or something else that would only confuse me, but maybe there's some advantage to playing a Druid that I have missed all along. (Shapechange? I don't know.) The only stats you need to worry about are Dexterity (for Missile Weapon bonuses) and Wisdom (for the maximum number of spells). Viconia's magic resistance is nice sometimes, but it's annoying when she "resists" her own healing spells. (The DudleyFix Pack takes care of that by making "party friendly" spells ignore magic resistance, but before you use it, make sure you don't mind the other changes they've made to Priest and Wizard spells.)
You probably know how to "milk the experience cows" (I think of that as exploiting your own knowledge as a player rather than cheating), but a four- or five-member party is preferable to a six-member party because a smaller party can level up faster. If your characters max out their experience before they reach the end of the game, that will actually be a good thing from a powergaming point of view, because they'll be so awesome at their maximum levels and you'll get to enjoy it for a while.
Tomes are always on the minds of powergamers. Like using a maxi-min tactic for your characters' stat rolls, planning how you will use the Tomes is yet another way to exploit your own knowledge of the game. In this case, the choices are pretty obvious. Your Fighter/Thieves can fight over the Manual of Gainful Exercise and the Manual of Quickness of Action; you'll probably want to give the Manual of Bodily Health to your Elven Fighter, who would benefit the most from the extra hit points; your Thief/Mage gets the Tome of Clear Thought; your Cleric gets all three Tomes of Understanding; and whoever does most of the talking for the group gets the Tome of Leadership and Influence.
SPOILER: One of your characters will also acquire a special power after each dream, which might include Draw Upon Holy Might, so choose your party leader carefully.
All of the really tough battles can be won by using summoned monsters to form a shield around your most vulnerable characters while they use ranged weapons and/or spells while your Fighter/Thieves backstab the heck out of your enemies. SPOILERS: This applies to Avarice, the Demon Knight, Aec'Letec the Nabassu, and Sarevok & Company. At lower levels, the game won't exactly be a cakewalk, and the TOTSC areas will always be challenging, but you'll plow right over most of the monsters or decimate them with ranged weapons before they ever reach you.
I'd have;
Paladin: Proficient in large swords and bows. Will use two-handed swords.
Ranger > Cleric: I'll dual whenever I start needing a Cleric, maybe at level 5. They'll be proficient in blunt weapons and will probably use the War Hammer +2, along with a sling when arching is necessary and also a shield.
Fighter > Druid: Similarly with the Ranger/Cleric, I'll dual whenever I start really having need of a Druid, since they're not really necessary at the start of the game. They'll be proficient in large swords and missile weapons, to use a scimitar and sling, also will use shields.
Fighter > Mage: To be dualled at level 3. Proficient in axes. Will use axes and that decent throwing axe that comes back to you.
Fighter > Thief: Proficient in short swords and bows. Short sword for backstabbing. Bows, because obviously they'd be my archer. I'll dual at level 2 or 3 to get the best possible thieving abilities.
Bard: The only non-human; the Bard will be Half-Elven. Proficient in bows and spears or blunt weapons to use a staff.
Clearly I think Dual-class combinations are the best. If I wanted to be Evil, I'd simply use a plain Fighter instead of the Paladin and also a Fighter/Cleric instead of Ranger/Cleric.
Using NPCs:
Good-aligned
Human Ranger, dualled to a Cleric at level 5, or whenever I start needing one. Proficient in Blunt and Missile weapons.
STR: 18
DEX: 18
CON: 18
INT: 6
WIS: 18
CHA: 8 - just to get through the early game pre-Ajantis. Otherwise, it'd be 3.
Ajantis: To lead the party. 3rd best tank on the game after Minsc and Kivan.
Minsc: Best tank on the game. Partnered with the best Good-aligned mage, Dynaheir.
Kivan: 2nd best tank, 2nd best arhcer (after Coran). Very useful character.
Imoen: Best thief on the game; Alora and Coran are gotten too late to be more useful than Imoen.
Dynaheir: Best Good-aligned mage. She goes hand-in-hand with the best tank on the game, Minsc.
The good thing about this is that you get them all early. I decided to play as a Cleric, because taking an NPC Cleric would mean replacing Ajantis or Kivan with Branwen or Yeslick, which just isn't sufficient. An alternative to this party would be to take Coran over Ajantis for his great archer abilities. However, if you did this, you'd need to make yourself charismatic to lead the party, taking away from other abilities.
Evil-aligned
Human Fighter, dualled to a Cleric at level 5, or whenever I start needing one. Proficient in Blunt and Missile weapons.
STR: 18
DEX: 14
CON: 16
INT: 6
WIS: 17
CHA: 17
Unfortunately, since you'll see I don't have anyone charismatic, then I have to stunt my other stats.
Kagain: Along with Shar-Teel, a must-have Evil party member, as he's the best tank. Regeneration is very good.
Shar-Teel: Along with Kagain, a must-have Evil party member, as she's the best tank. I can't decide who's better out of the two.
Montaron: The tertiary tank out of the three NPCs (obviously not including my PC). Also, the archer of the party and the thief. I prefer him to Safana (who's neutral) and also you get him right after you get Imoen.
Xzar: Comes with Montaron. He's a decent second mage for Edwin to work with.
Edwin: Best mage on the game. Everyone knows he's a must-have for evil parties.
Again, the good thing about this is that you get them all early. I think that using a Cleric is best, however there is an alternative which means replacing Xzar and Montaron with Viconia and Safana. This would mean you can play as a plain Fighter. Still, I prefer playing a Cleric, again.
Overall, I think the Bards in the game are very poor characters. They don't get spells till later on and they generally have not a lot of advantages over other characters. I'd consider taking the duo of Eldoth and Skie, only IF you could get them sooner. Two other poor characters are the two Gnomes; Tiax and Quayle. Tiax is a poor Cleric and poor Thief. Quayle is an alright Mage, but you get him so late on, which means he's not the best character to have. I'm also not a fan of Druids on this game, in general. They're MUCH more useful in SoA and ToB. Khalid and Jaheira are the 4th and 5th best tanks respectively for a Good-aligned party. Unfortunately, it's just hard to fit them in. I see them as characters designed for a first playthrough, only, or at least until you pick up Minsc and Dynaheir. Alora would be better than Imoen, but you get her far too late. Branwen, Yeslick and Viconia are evenly-matched Clerics. Like I said, Viconia is a more likely candidate than the others as she can be fitted better into the Evil party. Xan's the only character I've not mentioned. I think he's alright, but he'd never fit into any of these parties.
Paladin: Proficient in large swords and bows. Will use two-handed swords.
Ranger > Cleric: I'll dual whenever I start needing a Cleric, maybe at level 5. They'll be proficient in blunt weapons and will probably use the War Hammer +2, along with a sling when arching is necessary and also a shield.
Fighter > Druid: Similarly with the Ranger/Cleric, I'll dual whenever I start really having need of a Druid, since they're not really necessary at the start of the game. They'll be proficient in large swords and missile weapons, to use a scimitar and sling, also will use shields.
Fighter > Mage: To be dualled at level 3. Proficient in axes. Will use axes and that decent throwing axe that comes back to you.
Fighter > Thief: Proficient in short swords and bows. Short sword for backstabbing. Bows, because obviously they'd be my archer. I'll dual at level 2 or 3 to get the best possible thieving abilities.
Bard: The only non-human; the Bard will be Half-Elven. Proficient in bows and spears or blunt weapons to use a staff.
Clearly I think Dual-class combinations are the best. If I wanted to be Evil, I'd simply use a plain Fighter instead of the Paladin and also a Fighter/Cleric instead of Ranger/Cleric.
Using NPCs:
Good-aligned
Human Ranger, dualled to a Cleric at level 5, or whenever I start needing one. Proficient in Blunt and Missile weapons.
STR: 18
DEX: 18
CON: 18
INT: 6
WIS: 18
CHA: 8 - just to get through the early game pre-Ajantis. Otherwise, it'd be 3.
Ajantis: To lead the party. 3rd best tank on the game after Minsc and Kivan.
Minsc: Best tank on the game. Partnered with the best Good-aligned mage, Dynaheir.
Kivan: 2nd best tank, 2nd best arhcer (after Coran). Very useful character.
Imoen: Best thief on the game; Alora and Coran are gotten too late to be more useful than Imoen.
Dynaheir: Best Good-aligned mage. She goes hand-in-hand with the best tank on the game, Minsc.
The good thing about this is that you get them all early. I decided to play as a Cleric, because taking an NPC Cleric would mean replacing Ajantis or Kivan with Branwen or Yeslick, which just isn't sufficient. An alternative to this party would be to take Coran over Ajantis for his great archer abilities. However, if you did this, you'd need to make yourself charismatic to lead the party, taking away from other abilities.
Evil-aligned
Human Fighter, dualled to a Cleric at level 5, or whenever I start needing one. Proficient in Blunt and Missile weapons.
STR: 18
DEX: 14
CON: 16
INT: 6
WIS: 17
CHA: 17
Unfortunately, since you'll see I don't have anyone charismatic, then I have to stunt my other stats.
Kagain: Along with Shar-Teel, a must-have Evil party member, as he's the best tank. Regeneration is very good.
Shar-Teel: Along with Kagain, a must-have Evil party member, as she's the best tank. I can't decide who's better out of the two.
Montaron: The tertiary tank out of the three NPCs (obviously not including my PC). Also, the archer of the party and the thief. I prefer him to Safana (who's neutral) and also you get him right after you get Imoen.
Xzar: Comes with Montaron. He's a decent second mage for Edwin to work with.
Edwin: Best mage on the game. Everyone knows he's a must-have for evil parties.
Again, the good thing about this is that you get them all early. I think that using a Cleric is best, however there is an alternative which means replacing Xzar and Montaron with Viconia and Safana. This would mean you can play as a plain Fighter. Still, I prefer playing a Cleric, again.
Overall, I think the Bards in the game are very poor characters. They don't get spells till later on and they generally have not a lot of advantages over other characters. I'd consider taking the duo of Eldoth and Skie, only IF you could get them sooner. Two other poor characters are the two Gnomes; Tiax and Quayle. Tiax is a poor Cleric and poor Thief. Quayle is an alright Mage, but you get him so late on, which means he's not the best character to have. I'm also not a fan of Druids on this game, in general. They're MUCH more useful in SoA and ToB. Khalid and Jaheira are the 4th and 5th best tanks respectively for a Good-aligned party. Unfortunately, it's just hard to fit them in. I see them as characters designed for a first playthrough, only, or at least until you pick up Minsc and Dynaheir. Alora would be better than Imoen, but you get her far too late. Branwen, Yeslick and Viconia are evenly-matched Clerics. Like I said, Viconia is a more likely candidate than the others as she can be fitted better into the Evil party. Xan's the only character I've not mentioned. I think he's alright, but he'd never fit into any of these parties.