Finished Tob...

Pellinore · Post by **Pellinore** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 6:48 pm

Well, I must say that whilst my Paladin maxed out the rest of the party were about 1,000,000XP shy of maxing out (don't understand the gap there). I thought SoA was better but it was nice to do triple G.Whirlwinds on people :mischief: and still have other options in the fights. The only problems I had was with the Boss and I had to do about 5 reloads with her

....thought I was going to have to fight Cyric there for a moment :speech:

. Overall it was a fantastic game and I am going to start again from the beginning with a new class but somehow I doubt it will be as memorable as this first run through.

BTW....is there a better leather in the game than the Shadow Dragon Armour? I wanted to keep Minsc in light armour for his stealth but it wasn't good for his health if you get my drift...

VonDondu · Post by **VonDondu** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 8:00 am

Congratulations!

Throne of Bhaal is truly epic, and there's nothing like the first time through (if you don't use a walkthrough). For instance, I didn't know the identity of the Imprisoned One, and I just about fell out of my seat when I learned his name. I mean, we're talking about one major badass, and the game did not disappoint me. If you want to know what a battle between god-like beings would be like in the D&D world, this is probably the best implentation you'll ever find in a game. What else could you do--throw planets at each other?

Aside from Watcher's Keep, though, it seemed like a short game, and the quest path was very linear. That was a little disappointing.

Pellinore wrote:BTW....is there a better leather in the game than the Shadow Dragon Armour? I wanted to keep Minsc in light armour for his stealth but it wasn't good for his health if you get my drift...

White Dragon Scale armor (AC -2) is considered "leather" armor, and it is perfect for Minsc since he is a member of the Ice Dragon Berserker Lodge of Rashemen. You can find the scales on the floor on the second level of Watcher's Keep; Cespenar will forge the armor for 5,000 gp. Shadow Dragon Armor is the best stealth armor for Rangers before you reach TOB. On the other hand, AC doesn't make a whole lot of difference in TOB, so spells like Armor of Faith and Hardiness and protective spells make a significant difference.

BTW, the identity of the main villain in TOB is supposed to be a surprise, so you should probably remove the villain's name from your message or put "Spoiler" in your message title. But I'm curious, did the villain's identity come as any surprise to you? In my opinion, the talking statue head gave everything away in the first five minutes of the game. Besides, I probably would have had my suspicions anyway because of the villain's annoying behavior. I played the game the first day it was released, and I never use spoilers or walkthoughs in my first time playing a game. It's interesting that you expected to fight Cyric.

CFM · Post by **CFM** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 9:22 am

Second the congratulations. Comment if the second time thru is as fun. I always think about starting BG a second time: new class, new alignment, new party... but my list of games to get to is long. If I were to play again, I'll probably try the "Ascension" mod. It sounds like it really expands the last parts of ToB.

Also second the above post: at the end, it almost did feel like we were throwing planets at each other. It seemed like +3 weapons grew on trees, but otherwise I found everything appropriate and inline with what high-level AD&D battles should be. What other game even goes there? What other expansion is as epic? Just having to remember that it *is* an expansion is an indicator of how good it is.

I played thru BG last year. I thought the main villian at the end of ToB was obvious from the beginning of Chapter 8. It seemed like too much of a setup for a plot twist: she seemed to care a little too much. (Or maybe I was spoiled years ago and don't remember.)

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 4:25 pm

Congrats. I still believe that you haven't played ToB until you have beaten Watcher's Keep. The one VonDondu was talking about is certainly a match for the main ToB baddie.

I didn't piece together the riddle until I got to a certain Blue.

Watcher's Keep was a surprise and I do believe that it is considered to be the largest mini-quest in the history of games.

AFter about my tenth playthrough (starting at Baldur's Gate (I mean from the VERY beginning, Candlekeep), I managed to collect all the pantaloons, and well... I'm sure you know what happens next.

That was like a "holy crap!" surprise.

Pellinore · Post by **Pellinore** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 4:31 pm

I didn't like the villain from the start. I didn't know she was the main villain but I knew she was no good. She really wasn't all that difficult aside from the summons but Jonnny was a much, much better villain.

Thrifalas · Post by **Thrifalas** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 7:22 am

Pellinore wrote:I didn't like the villain from the start. I didn't know she was the main villain but I knew she was no good. She really wasn't all that difficult aside from the summons but Jonnny was a much, much better villain.

A little spoiler warning

But same here. Anyone with a portrait is someone important, and since pretty much the only ones to have portraits are playable characters, and über-bad guys, I knew from the instance I saw her that she was the "main boss".

Really disappointed there.

The other two main villains - Sarevok and Irenicus - was brilliant, on the other hand. Irenicus is still the only well-made extremely evil and sadistic villain I know, most other just feels forced and empty, but Irenicus really *was* the evil bastard he was.

Pellinore · Post by **Pellinore** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 6:28 pm

Spoilers

Yeah, Irenicus was great, as was Sarevok. The voice actors were great but the guy doing Jonoleth's voice was perfect. I did beat Watcher's Keep right before facing Irenicus and yes, the big D was tough...

Klorox · Post by **Klorox** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 8:00 pm

If BG is a trilogy, ToB is the worst part.

It's still great though. Congrats on making it through. IMO, it's never as good as the first time, but you've got to keep yourself interested in different ways. Try different classes and different NPCs. Maybe a drastically different alignment.

To spice it up for me, I'm trying to go through the whole game without reloading. I'm currently in the Sahuagin City in SoA, and have played this character from Candlekeep in BG1. Lots of fun!

fable · Post by **fable** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 8:19 pm

Klorox wrote:If BG is a trilogy, ToB is the worst part.

Why in your opinion is it so?

Klorox · Post by **Klorox** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 8:35 pm

fable wrote:Why in your opinion is it so?

The main villain stinks compared to the other two, the storyline is way too linear, and since you're of such a high level, everything seems so Monty Haul and cheesey.

fable · Post by **fable** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 8:38 pm

Klorox wrote:The main villain stinks compared to the other two, the storyline is way too linear, and since you're of such a high level, everything seems so Monty Haul and cheesey.

Agreed on the first point. But ToB is an addon, and I don't know any addons for games of this sort that aren't linear; while the Monty Haul-iness can be pretty well killed by installing the mod "recreating" several of the high level bosses in all their original strength. Then the rewards don't seem out of proportion with what you face.

But--I won't disagree with you, provided we recognize ToB was never intended as a separate game, unlike BG1 or BG2.

Pellinore · Post by **Pellinore** » Thu Oct 26, 2006 6:35 pm

spoiler alert

As a villain, I would have rather seen Jonoleth return from Hell. As if he just wasn't quite ready to let go yet...or maybe even Cyric. ToB villain wasn't all that. Most of what she did was summons. I did have to reload a lot but that was because everyone died from level drains....

Onkel Bob · Post by **Onkel Bob** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 10:59 am

I prefered the story and the villain in BG1, but the gameplay in BG2. All that walking in the first... Second time I played it everyone got Boots of Speed edited in...

I still think you could make a better game in the style of BG2 "simply" by making it bigger and by giving the NPC's more of an agenda. Also your choices should feel like they had more consequenses.