on acquiring certain items...

Ned Flanders · Post by **Ned Flanders** » Tue Aug 28, 2001 8:53 pm

Just had some thoughts as i stumbled upon the mighty bag o'holding after dispatching of a piddly clay golem. For being one of the most powerful items in the game, it sure wasn't a lot of effort to obtain. Even worse is the robe of vecna, you can just buy that although you have to have the bonus merchants installed.

Anyway, for me, these items are pretty much #1 and #2 in the game. They are must haves although it is disappointing that they are both so easily obtained. It's quite trivial but wouldn't it have been a lot more fun to obtain these items after more of a 'struggle'; maybe a 'tiff'.

Trying to of the converse where there is a difficult fight and nothing to show for it. Who's got the quote around here, "I saved Suldenessalar and all I got was this lousy amulet." I love that one.

THE JAKER · Post by **THE JAKER** » Tue Aug 28, 2001 8:59 pm

Good point, Ned...

That one halberd you get in the Underdark - Dragon's Breath - talk about thrown in. At a certain point you start finding weapons and just throwing them in the bag - oh I'll look at that later.

It's funny how there's a progression in a game, where first you're scrounging hard and you're even picking up nonmagical bows and armor to sell for cash, and then eventually you're leaving +2 swords and gems and jewels, or 5th level scrolls behind on corpses just because you can't even be bothered to shuffle your inventory.

Johnny · Post by **Johnny** » Wed Aug 29, 2001 9:04 am

But by that point, Jaker, the party is already well equipped and needs fewer funds, thus making it less useful. I wonder what NWN will be like, when everyone starts walking around with Holy Avengers and the like.

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Wed Aug 29, 2001 12:35 pm

Good point, Ned.

Me and some others are toying with adding a few good fights to BG2 (both improving regular AI and populating some deserted areas). I'll make the suggestion of re-distributing some of the powerful items. Would be more rewarding if you actually had to kill a powerful Lich instead of couching up 24K for the Robe of Vecna.

Craig · Post by **Craig** » Wed Aug 29, 2001 1:28 pm

Call the lich craig

Yshania · Post by **Yshania** » Wed Aug 29, 2001 1:31 pm

Posted by Johnny -

But by that point, Jaker, the party is already well equipped and needs fewer funds, thus making it less useful. I wonder what NWN will be like, when everyone starts walking around with Holy Avengers and the like.

I agree. I am currently walking around Watchers Keep with over 500,000 gold pieces (or whatever the currency) and nothing to spend it on...

THE JAKER · Post by **THE JAKER** » Wed Aug 29, 2001 1:45 pm

I posted a story about how a wild surge in Watcher's Keep cost me 140,000 gold.

Anyway Xyx you are as always the man...I think it's so great that you and others like Mr. Dorner, Manveru, Sabre, and I don't want to forget anyone but anyway a lot of people are giving of themselves to improve a already good game. And of course Buck, Equis, Fable, Sleep etc for giving their time to provide us with this site and forum. Thank you from all the fans. When NWN comes out I can't wait to see what people come up with...

And I agree the lich should be called craig.

Ned Flanders · Post by **Ned Flanders** » Wed Aug 29, 2001 1:53 pm

Why not call the lich vecna, and add the eye and hand taboot as other high powered artifact items. The eye and hand were the two artifacts originally laid down in the DM's guide, were they not?

Also, if it going to be a battle with a lich, make it difficult. Make Vecna a demilich, and add two other regular liches (although this sort of goes against their way, it is rare to find more than one in the same crypt). If not liches, then add some skeleton warriors, and those vicious mist from ToB. Finally, make the encounter begin as soon as the party enters a new area so you cannot do all your summons before the encounter. And by all means, make sure the party is required to bring a shrubbery.

Craig · Post by **Craig** » Wed Aug 29, 2001 2:11 pm

Can you get druid liches 3ED? 2ED 1ED(what is 1ED like?)

THE JAKER · Post by **THE JAKER** » Wed Aug 29, 2001 2:20 pm

1 ED as I recall was much simpler version, but it was basically the same as Baldur's Gate, just not nearly as sophisticated and intricate. There were only Thief, Fighter, Mage and Cleric. I cant remember the difference between 2nd Edition and "Advanced" Dungeons & Dragons, though...

Craig · Post by **Craig** » Wed Aug 29, 2001 2:27 pm

and the druids?

Craig · Post by **Craig** » Wed Aug 29, 2001 2:33 pm

and the druids?

Ned Flanders · Post by **Ned Flanders** » Wed Aug 29, 2001 2:43 pm

There are druids in the 1st edition advanced set of rules. I haven't followed much from the second or third edition of rules though so I don't know how they differ. Their doesn't appear to be any difference from 1st edition advanced rules to second edition.

Chingiz · Post by **Chingiz** » Wed Aug 29, 2001 3:05 pm

I think you're all talking about separate things. The origial D&D was the weird little boxed set that is much different from the later AD&D rules. All of your classes were human and each of the races was its own separate class. Elves all got spell casting abilities, etc... It's been so long anyone I know has ever played it, I can't even remember the details.

The first Adavanced D&D rules (what I believe is what you mean when you say 1st edition) came out God knows when. It was much more complicated than D&D with rules spread out in multiple manuals. I think I had about 12 tomes by the time the went to 2nd Edition rules. I pretty much gave up when 2E came out, except for a brief period to play Dark Sun. I still think that is a supercool setting for a game -- eight foot elven marauders running through the wastes! Does anyone play that anymore? It'd probably be a great CPRG. I've never seen 3rd edition rules before.

From what I've hear the 3rd edition rules are very different from the 1st and second. (What's this feat stuff). 1E and 2E were very similar, 2E mainly incorporated a lot of auxilliary rules that had been developed in 10 years of Dragon Magazine and several other tombs, like Unearthed Arcana, such as weapon proficiencies, THAC0 (there used to be these ungodly complicated tables for each class) and kits. If you ask me, 2E was designed to basically incorporate all the disparate rules floating around into one unified whole. 3E seems to be an entirely new revamp.

Ned Flanders · Post by **Ned Flanders** » Wed Aug 29, 2001 3:43 pm

@ Chingiz,

that's right, the basic and expert sets didn't even have classes. I believe humans had classes but elves, halflings, and dwarves were their own race/class all together. Yeah, 1st ed. advanced I am talking about the original players handbook, dm's guide, and monster manual. Add fiend folio (best book!!! cover art with the githyanki is great) and dieties and demigods for flair.

Craig · Post by **Craig** » Wed Aug 29, 2001 3:47 pm

No ment lich druids

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Thu Aug 30, 2001 4:11 pm

Originally posted by Chingiz:
<STRONG>All of your classes were human and each of the races was its own separate class.</STRONG>

That was sooo weird.

3 kids talking:
"I'm gonna be a Fighter when I grow up!"
"I'm gonna be a Magic-User!"
"I'm gonna be a Dwarf!"

Originally posted by craig:
<STRONG>No ment lich druids</STRONG>

Mages have to use necromantic spells to attain Lichdom. A very unnatural process. I would assume your average Druid would consider that a fate worse than death.