level cap and penalties

Tricky · Post by **Tricky** » Sun Nov 05, 2006 6:56 am

I've started a new game again (I suffer from the character creation syndrome, haven't even beaten the first chapter yet), a plane touched druid. Besides her racial deficiencies that make her level up at a slower rate she also has to deal with not being her favorite class. The leveling penalty is noticable so I started wondering if it's even possible to max my class before I complete the game.

KOTOR (here I am comparing this game again, but whatever) gave the player plenty XP to max out any kind of character, you had to try hard not to finish it at the level cap. KOTOR 2 was a different, as the level cap (40) was unreachable. Interestingly enough, the latter was developed by Obsidian.

There is a line somewhere in the NWN2 manual that seems to suggest that you MAY max your character's level by the end of the game. It is unclear though whether this statement includes any possible penalty, or perhaps that it only 'MAY' become impossible if you choose to forgo a portion of the side quests.

I doubt anyone has completed the game yet, but I'd like to know if there was a lot of unused XP left by the end of the game. I'd like to know of these kind of Planetouched builds need to be avoided in the singleplayer campaign.

Lucita · Post by **Lucita** » Sun Nov 05, 2006 11:58 am

The Max level is supposed to be Level 20 if I am correct. Depending if that is defined through experience points or the actual level you might be stuck with a Level 19 planetouched character in the end as they have an Effective Class Level +1. Drow, Svirfneblins should be +3 ( max level 17 ), while Duergar +2 ( max level 18 ) if I remember correctly from the Forgotten Realms ruleset.

The favourite class is only interesting if you do multiclassing. Usually you get a penalty if your classes differ in more then 2 levels. For example: A tiefling fighter/wizard's levels are 2/3, if he levels up his mage class next time he gets penalties on his experience points until he brought the fighter level back uo to par. A moonelf ( favourite class wizard ) wouldn't have said penalty because of his favourite class.

Tricky · Post by **Tricky** » Sun Nov 05, 2006 12:44 pm

I see, that is very interesting. Now why can't you find stuff like that in the manual..

Lucita · Post by **Lucita** » Sun Nov 05, 2006 12:58 pm

They want you to buy the official D6D 3.5 Rule Set ?

Tricky · Post by **Tricky** » Sun Nov 05, 2006 1:13 pm

"Whether or not you win the game, matters not. It's if you bought it."

fable · Post by **fable** » Sun Nov 05, 2006 3:49 pm

As Tricky implies, there is a school of thought that the bad manuals of today were inspired by a desparate need to sell strategy guides and the like.

Lucita · Post by **Lucita** » Sun Nov 05, 2006 4:48 pm

Yep...that seems to be true, why giving a decent manual that explains at least the essentials, if you can sell a strategy book for another $ 25....

JCDenton · Post by **JCDenton** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 5:36 am

No no no

No no no no.. Because of no implemented epic level ruleset, your character has a LEVEL cap of 20, in other words: the sum of all levels can maximum be 20. So don`t worry. The result is that your svirfneblin will continue from level 17 to 20, at the time when your companions have maxed out their levels. It`s actually quite cool because it prolongs your gameplay a bit. I had to use console commands to make sure it, I agree it should be in the manual.

By the way, tiefling wizard\eldrich knight rocks

Fljotsdale · Post by **Fljotsdale** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 5:58 am

I agree about the Manual v Strategy Guide policy. And it stinks. Used to be you got all important info in the Manual, and the Strategy Guide was just for gimps not prepared to use their brains.

Tricky · Post by **Tricky** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 9:37 am

JCDenton wrote:No no no no.. Because of no implemented epic level ruleset, your character has a LEVEL cap of 20, in other words: the sum of all levels can maximum be 20. So don`t worry.

There still needs to be enough experience in the game to actually get you there. I wager a character without penalties doesn't go through the quarter of the game entirely at level 20.

swcarter · Post by **swcarter** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 9:49 pm

Tricky wrote:I doubt anyone has completed the game yet, but I'd like to know if there was a lot of unused XP left by the end of the game. I'd like to know of these kind of Planetouched builds need to be avoided in the singleplayer campaign.

I just finished the campaign, and my human character ended up at level 20. I got some extra experience beyond that, but not enough for another level.

SWC

Magrus · Post by **Magrus** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 9:59 pm

Hmm. That means my Aasimar Warlock can expect to be level 19 unless I cheat then. Which means, a drow wizard would still get access to 9th level spells, but would only be able to do so if they took a straight wizard path. A Svirfneblin caster of any sort would be limited to 8th level spells or lower as well. Good to know.

@ SWC, Btw, I love the signature. One of the best lines from the game I have encountered so far.

Tricky · Post by **Tricky** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 2:04 am

Hm. That is quite unfortunate and perhaps a bigger disadvantage than the initial levelling penalty at startup. I don't see how their 'effective extra level' in attributes weighs up against that AND the fact that, depending on your build, you may not get all your spells.

Lucita · Post by **Lucita** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 4:31 am

Well the Effective Level Class is there for a reason. A drow character gets so many advantages at the beginning: High attributes, Spell Resistance, Daily Spelllike abilities, with a feat like Daylight Adaption ( not in the game yet as far as I know ) he will be able to live in daylight normally too.

I am pretty sure in upcomming addons/campaigns they will increase the cap to higher levels.

Magrus · Post by **Magrus** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 5:54 am

*nods* It's one of the penalties you need to deal with. Keep in mind if you pick a say, Drow Fighter right? You can reach 18th level. Meaning you miss out on one class feat, 2d10 HP, 2 to your BAB, 4+ Skill Points, and 1 to your Fort save. In exchange for what?

SR 11+18=39. You are basically immune to nearly any spell tossed your way by fodder mages, and get a good chance of resisting spells by enemy boss-type casters. That is worth a LOT overall for a character in and of itself.

The stat bonuses are very good, +2 to three stats and -2 to one stat.
In addition to other miscellaneous benefits.

Suddenly, it doesn't seem to bad. Especially when your character runs into a group of wizards or clerics that all want to paralyze you or blast you. :laugh:

Tricky · Post by **Tricky** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 6:07 am

Well, those classes get a lot for it in return. A Tiefling.. ? Maybe not so much. Then again, their penalty is smaller.

Magrus · Post by **Magrus** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 6:17 am

Exactly. The planetouched get half as much, and therefore their penalty is half of what the drow elf has.

pomr · Post by **pomr** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 10:04 am

Actually...

Character Level is limited, XP is not. In other words you CAN reach level 20 as any race...it just means you have a longer haul. I got my Aasimar Warlock to level 19 by End Game, and after besting the King of Shadows used a Console Command to give me more XP. It leveled both me and Zhjaeve when I gave an extra 10K, so you just have to FIND the XP. I didn't do everything possible, so it is conceivable you can reach level 20 with a 1 level adjustment, I don't think it likely without cheating for a 2 or 3 level adjustment however.

Hope that helps.

Level Adjustments are part of the core D&D rules, they probably assume you have a passing familiarity with them and didn't mention it in the manuals. It is probably that simple, I mean, they have a lot of notes about how their stuff deviates from core game mechanics, so it would seem logical. I'm sure money is a motivator too.

Anyway...done being the hero, now to try it as an evil Monk.

Acleacius · Post by **Acleacius** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 1:05 pm

Not only is total xp determined by how many quest but also how you play them.
Often times if you play some form of Good you will not get max xp, because you will often let NPCs live where mostly evil characters will not.

Another thing I noticed is you really have to stay on the ball, becasue often times if you are slow to react NPCs will get kills and you will miss the xp.
Take as an example at the very beginning of the game, where you fight of thre waves of gith, if you don't move quickly you wont get many kills or xp and this happens through out the game.

Magrus · Post by **Magrus** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 1:26 pm

pomr wrote:Character Level is limited, XP is not.

Wrong, the game was made with a set amount of XP in it. As stated above, the only way to get past a certain amount of XP is to cheat, hence, both are limited in the game. Now, if there were random encounters and a respawn function, this would be a different story, but there isn't either of those.