Another one of my parties...

sexymonkeys · Post by **sexymonkeys** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 2:22 am

I'm playing a game (ToB included) with 4 characters which I made sure were all melee, but could still carry out other tasks as well...
So this is what I have now on Chapter 2:

Kensai -> Thief (Dualled at level 13) (I ROLLED A TOTAL OF 98 FOR THIS CHARACTER!!!!)
Keldorn
Anomen
Haer'Dalis

So I'm just confused as to what equipment everyone should use (although Keldorn obviously gets Carsomyr, and I'll give the Flail of Ages to Anomen [other recommendations are welcome]). I only have one caster who doesn't really get to memorize many spells so I'm wondering whether to stick to the weapons which increase the amount of memorized spells, or to use the Short Sword of the Mask +4 (later upgraded) with Kundane +2. I currently hold both of these short swords and the Dak'kon's Zerth Blade so I don't know what to use with Haer'Dalis. Will he have enough spells on his own anyway?

And my Kensai -> Thief still has the Kensai inactive, but I had put proficiencies in Axes and Dual Wielding (because Axe of Unyielding/Crom Faeyr looked so appealing). However I'm now starting to wonder if I should SK the proficiencies to something else (because when I had created my character the thought of backstabbing never even crossed my mind). Also what armour, rings, amulets, helmets, cloaks, girdles e.t.c would a Kensai -> Thief strive to obtain? I'm thinking Mercykiller Ring, Whatever the best armour available is, Girdle of Inertial Barrier, Boots of Speed, and not sure about what else...

Anyway thanks in advance... And I'm sure I missed some other details out because I am horrible at writing on the spot.

Jedi_Sauraus · Post by **Jedi_Sauraus** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 4:28 am

I'm having fun with a Kensai > Thief right now, do consider celestial fury and backstabbing

with belm off hand. I dualed at 9 so proficiencies are not an issue (I just waited the 160k to regain before leveling) Starting out a fight with a well placed backstab is extremely effectiven not to mention ............ satisfying

Chunking the mage in the sewers was an eye opener for me did that party at team level 9-10-11

something I had previously though extremely difficult and they just rolled over

kmonster · Post by **kmonster** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 9:28 am

As soon as you reach thief level 16 you can put the second point into your backstab weapon, two points aren't much worse than five, so don't bother.
You'll soon have enough skill points to make the mercikiller ring obsolete, so don't buy it.

A few low level spells more or less don't really matter for a high level bard.

Jordoo · Post by **Jordoo** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 12:07 pm

I would want more Arkane power personally one Bard would not do it for me no level 7 or higher spells.

Jedi_Sauraus · Post by **Jedi_Sauraus** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 12:18 pm

Jordoo is right, I've overlooked that you don't have a proper mage. having 1 good mage is bad, having 0 is crippling

kmonster · Post by **kmonster** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 12:28 pm

Your bard is sufficient. If you add a mage he'll be dominating your game and prevent you from trying out new tactics.

SlimJim · Post by **SlimJim** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 2:57 pm

I'd suggest putting some of Anomens proficiency points into Warhammers for the Crom Faer. By the end of mu game Anomen was topping the kill charts because of it. Anomen + CRom Faer = Awesome

Jedi_Sauraus · Post by **Jedi_Sauraus** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 7:40 pm

1 mage won't overpower his party, and in ToB, IMO a single Bard won't be enough unless he resorts to some heavy trap and Similarcum cheese.
Playing without a mage is just asking for trouble

I'd consider it on the same order of difficulty as no reloads + Ascension. If he wants to cripple himself in order to roleplay or for a challange ........... well more power to you good luck and have fun I'll be keeping my fingers crossed.

As an offhand for Anomen belm is a good idea, +2 attacks per round after improved haste, and IIRC you get a maximum of 1 attack/ round from your offhand so you won't be making those attacks with a sucky weapon. otherwise got for something that gives you negative plane protection, increases strenght or has other cool effects (Crom comes to mind here)

Raven_Song · Post by **Raven_Song** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 3:28 am

As an offhand for Anomen belm is a good idea,

Not unless you have a mod installed that lets clerics use swords.

Jedi_Sauraus · Post by **Jedi_Sauraus** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 4:36 am

Damn I wan't thinking straight, it is however a good offhand weapon for a tank. I was thinking of Anomen as a tank and my tanks are all capable of using Belm. I never use a pure cleric as a tank but rather as a summoner/healer especially since most of the time it's Aerie

oh well ny bad

edit: just a random thought at this point, there is no conceptual reason why a fighter dualed to cleric would be incapable of wielding a sword. thats just Bioware perpetuating a sterotype, which makes me lose less sleep over installing some mod that would allow a cleric to wield a slashing weapon. especially considering all the cheese you can manage in an unmodded official version game

kmonster · Post by **kmonster** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 11:45 am

Don't blame Bioware, it is a restriction in the AD&D rules.

Jedi_Sauraus · Post by **Jedi_Sauraus** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 4:02 pm

I'm not really blaming Bioware I know it's standard AD&D and I have gotten used to it. I would'nt install a mod that changes this, but if you really think about it......... it does'nt make sense.

Celacena · Post by **Celacena** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 6:13 am

clerical medical

the concept of cleric is somewhat unnatural, like all the enforced 'classes' - why should a mage not wield a sword and wear armour? because why would anybody NOT be multiclassed with mage if there were no restrictions.
the idea was that for game play and having fun, artificial restrictions gave people roles in the team - the cleric was the healer/summoner/buffer who could fight, the mage was there for casting and identifying/using magical items, the fighter was there as a tank, the ranger as fighting woodsman/tracker/guerrilla, the thief as sneaker/unlocker/trap detector.
fighter, mage, cleric/druid, thief - core of a standard PnP party - usually with additional fighters or specialists, such as a monk or illusionist.

my solution to this is to start as a fighter, but not kensai or wizard-slayer and then dual to straight mage at level 8 - the fighter has the endurance and fundamental skill to fight, but takes the arcane path and only has a short time of the artificial restiction of being caster-only. my latest character has taken that path and having eaten some powerful cheese after leaving Irenicus' dungeon, Yoshimo has robbed all the scroll-sellers blind - Spell-Store and the snotty woman in the Adventurers' Mart. the newly dualled mage then catches up on his reading and lo and behold, only needs a few combats to get back the ability to fight which IMO, he should never have lost.
I then have a mage on something like 117 HP with a reasonable, not excessively good THAC1 and who has the option of donning armour and losing casting ability should he run low on arcane energy spells.
In preparation for this idea, I put **** into dagger and ** into dual-wielding, so my idea for the weaponry is that he'll get armed with those nasty +3 or beyond daggers like Pixie Prick or the short sword of backstabbing. OK so, going in with his +1 dagger at the moment is not too much use, even with 5/2 attacks, but later on, the daggers will do a fair amount of damage. staff of the magi may change his attack profile, but that is a long way ahead and I'll start beefing up the staff stats in due course.
it may not have been the most uber-powerful idea, but it does role-play well - a mage with a double-handed sword stopping mid-swing to cast seems poor role-play, but a mage who can slip daggers in and out of sheaths between casts feels much more in the spirit of the role. with > 18 strength, the sling of seeking which has str bonuses would probably be a good ranged weapon, but I'm tempted to have him with a light cross-bow of speed or play darts, as I think LCS would be permissible and none of the rest of my party are CB users, so all those bolts will be going spare.

back to clerics - personally I never really understood why the rules were framed as they were - the original idea seems to be a monk-type fighter or a holy crusader, so really it might have been better to have made armoured clerics a subset of monks OR better a subset of fighters - the classic AD&D buffed up tank twirling a mace bears little resemblance to standard fantasy characters in literature. most healing fighters are either rangers who understand nature or "knights" of some sort and those use edged weapons for the most part - mounted knights have lances and the back-up of longsword and dagger - some may have preferred a pole arm, such as a mace or axe, but the standard archetype is for lance-sword-dagger. for rangers it would be bow, spear, axe and short-sword, but in either case it they use edged weapons. druids are better thought out and their restriction on swords is one of tradition - the scimitar or curved blade like the moon. sickles etc have been omitted, which is a shame.
I would abolish the broad category of cleric and replace it with druid, monk and temple-knight, but it is so well-established that it is deep in the mindset of RPGers and the developers that it would be difficult to get accepted.