I have reading the Post "Your thoughts on the game" looking for an answer and I have not been able to find it. I agree the AI in the game is poor at best as I don't like it when Khelgar goes running off after other enemies when he is supposed to be guarding either me or Elanee. The other party members do it also and from my experience in war a party is a Team with one leader and should act like a Team.
The Archers in the party should be shooting at other archers or spellcasters and let the tanks take care of the heavy stuff. The team that stays together and fights together defending each other stays alive and that brings me to the subject of this thread.
Edit... Highcliff Inn below should be " The Drunken Flagon "
Can you change your party's marching order like in several games I have played in the past. I want my Tanks/Clerics up front with my Magic and Bow users in the back and my Rogue in the middle. I have been unable to change them though I probably could by returning to Highcliff Inn. This is not very useful in the middle of a dungeon after you load a save only to find my Druid behind me and ahead of Khelgar. This was not the order they were saved in.
I will put a link to this post in the thread "Your thoughts on the game" because it partly belongs there.
Thanks for any help.
Kel
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Changing Party Marching Order___Can You?_SPOILER??
Changing Party Marching Order___Can You?_SPOILER??
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"Time is a honest judge and a relentless master ..... Use it well or regret it later."
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"Time is a honest judge and a relentless master ..... Use it well or regret it later."
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Good question about marching order - I am not sure if you can change this or not.
What you can do is go to the character options screen and customize the AI. You can choose different follow distances for each character as well as basic scripts for melee vs. missile and spellcasting AI. I always change my spellcasters to a long follow distance so they lag behind the tanks a bit.
Also - the broadcast command function is useful for party control. If you are doing some scouting you can order everyone else to "stand your ground" and they will not move until you summon them with a "follow me" or "attack nearest" command.
If you are really a micro-manager (like me) you can activate "puppet mode" and control all of the characters actions individually.
What you can do is go to the character options screen and customize the AI. You can choose different follow distances for each character as well as basic scripts for melee vs. missile and spellcasting AI. I always change my spellcasters to a long follow distance so they lag behind the tanks a bit.
Also - the broadcast command function is useful for party control. If you are doing some scouting you can order everyone else to "stand your ground" and they will not move until you summon them with a "follow me" or "attack nearest" command.
If you are really a micro-manager (like me) you can activate "puppet mode" and control all of the characters actions individually.
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HI smass,
Thanks for the reply. I am familiar which the character options screen and do use it to control some aspects of two of my party members.
The only ways I can think of to change your party's marching order is by returning to is "The Drunken Flagon" and not Highcliff Inn as I mentioned in my post. Add one character not currently in your party and remove the rest. I would suggest saving game before doing this. Then add the party members you want in the order you want and remove the character you added.
The other way is to use the console commands and I will try both ways tonight and see what happens and then post the results. I will also correct my previous post.
Kel
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Thanks for the reply. I am familiar which the character options screen and do use it to control some aspects of two of my party members.
The only ways I can think of to change your party's marching order is by returning to is "The Drunken Flagon" and not Highcliff Inn as I mentioned in my post. Add one character not currently in your party and remove the rest. I would suggest saving game before doing this. Then add the party members you want in the order you want and remove the character you added.
The other way is to use the console commands and I will try both ways tonight and see what happens and then post the results. I will also correct my previous post.
Kel
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"Time is a honest judge and a relentless master ..... Use it well or regret it later."
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"Time is a honest judge and a relentless master ..... Use it well or regret it later."
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The Sunken Flagon
Hi smass,
The only way I have found to come close to changing the marching order is to return to the Sunken Flagon. The time to make changes is when you leave the tavern. That is when the party screen opens up and choose your party members in the order you want them.
You will get a fairly decent marching order though it may not be exactly what you had wanted.
Thereis no AI in this game just very purposely poor programming!
Kel
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Hi smass,
The only way I have found to come close to changing the marching order is to return to the Sunken Flagon. The time to make changes is when you leave the tavern. That is when the party screen opens up and choose your party members in the order you want them.
You will get a fairly decent marching order though it may not be exactly what you had wanted.
Thereis no AI in this game just very purposely poor programming!
Kel
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"Time is a honest judge and a relentless master ..... Use it well or regret it later."
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"Time is a honest judge and a relentless master ..... Use it well or regret it later."
*
Funny, if I remember correctly, that order did not play any role. That is, the order itself changed randomly (?) when entering certain areas. I don't remember exactly which are the areas, but I do know that the order changed not only when exiting the inn's (party selection areas) but also elsewhere.Kel wrote:Hi smass,
The only way I have found to come close to changing the marching order is to return to the Sunken Flagon. The time to make changes is when you leave the tavern. That is when the party screen opens up and choose your party members in the order you want them.
You will get a fairly decent marching order though it may not be exactly what you had wanted.
Thereis no AI in this game just very purposely poor programming!
Kel
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Who do you want up front in your marching order? .. NO AI!
Padawan, thanks for your reply.
Your reply just further backs up my point and that is there is no Intelligence of any sort in this game AI or otherwise.
I just mentioned the one time you can get some sort of order in your party's marching order was when you left the Sunken Flagon. Yes, the marching order changes randomly in the game and the problem is that it should not. A party is a team which is supposed to work together for the good of the party even though they all have separate personalities. They can bicker all they want when they are not fighting but in battle they are supposed to all work together to protect each other so that they live longer.
Your point that order did not play any role in this case is wrong and not your fault but that of the AI (artificial intelligence) or maybe alien intelligence that wrote the AI. The AI sucks in this game which is why I have had to load an earlier save and start over because some character runs off doing their own thing.
There is a reason why you put tanks up front magic users in the middle and a capable character at the end. I have found that Neeshka fits the role of protecting my partys backside quite well and still is able to disable any traps we run into. She is not a tank but her dual wielding plus her ability with the bow helps her to defend the magic users in the middle and when she is dual wielding she has yet to get herself killed.
The problem with the lack of order is that Khelgar has this problem of running off after enemies even though on his Behavior Tab he is supposed to stay near the leader and defend the leader which should include other members of the party. Elanee never seems to change back from her wild shape until you tell her so I disabled her ability to change unless I tell her to.
I still think the AI sucks and the lack of party order is a major flaw even considering each characters personality.
Kel
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Padawan, thanks for your reply.
Your reply just further backs up my point and that is there is no Intelligence of any sort in this game AI or otherwise.
I just mentioned the one time you can get some sort of order in your party's marching order was when you left the Sunken Flagon. Yes, the marching order changes randomly in the game and the problem is that it should not. A party is a team which is supposed to work together for the good of the party even though they all have separate personalities. They can bicker all they want when they are not fighting but in battle they are supposed to all work together to protect each other so that they live longer.
Your point that order did not play any role in this case is wrong and not your fault but that of the AI (artificial intelligence) or maybe alien intelligence that wrote the AI. The AI sucks in this game which is why I have had to load an earlier save and start over because some character runs off doing their own thing.
There is a reason why you put tanks up front magic users in the middle and a capable character at the end. I have found that Neeshka fits the role of protecting my partys backside quite well and still is able to disable any traps we run into. She is not a tank but her dual wielding plus her ability with the bow helps her to defend the magic users in the middle and when she is dual wielding she has yet to get herself killed.
The problem with the lack of order is that Khelgar has this problem of running off after enemies even though on his Behavior Tab he is supposed to stay near the leader and defend the leader which should include other members of the party. Elanee never seems to change back from her wild shape until you tell her so I disabled her ability to change unless I tell her to.
I still think the AI sucks and the lack of party order is a major flaw even considering each characters personality.
Kel
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"Time is a honest judge and a relentless master ..... Use it well or regret it later."
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"Time is a honest judge and a relentless master ..... Use it well or regret it later."
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Fljotsdale
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The order changes on it's own, regardless of what I want, and it seems to do so purely at random, not when entering the Flagon, or changing team members on the road at specific locations. The GAME itself shifts 'em around. But, as someone already said, it doesn't matter - it's just annoying.
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fable
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It matters if you're playing a sorc or mage, at the rear of your party, only to find yourself suddenly at the front and engaged in a conversation with a dirty big enemy right before a battle.Fljotsdale wrote:The order changes on it's own, regardless of what I want, and it seems to do so purely at random, not when entering the Flagon, or changing team members on the road at specific locations. The GAME itself shifts 'em around. But, as someone already said, it doesn't matter - it's just annoying.
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I agree it is annoying and more
Hi Fljotsdale, thanks for the post.
I agree it is annoying but as 'fable' just pointed out it can be down right dangerous to your sorc or mage if that is your main character. They don't belong up front. You need someone with high charisma or bluff/intimidate skills and a tank at that.
Kel
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Hi Fljotsdale, thanks for the post.
I agree it is annoying but as 'fable' just pointed out it can be down right dangerous to your sorc or mage if that is your main character. They don't belong up front. You need someone with high charisma or bluff/intimidate skills and a tank at that.
Kel
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darthelema0101
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Unfortunately, your secondary party members are not normally considered to be talkers. This means that when you initiate conversations with just about anybody, it does not matter where your main character is, they get PUT into the conversation at conversation distance.
This is also why it is not worth it to use the default recommendations for allocating skill points to those secondary chars - NPCs points do NOT belong in conversation skills (appraisal, bluff, diplomacy, intimidate, taunt)
This is also why it is not worth it to use the default recommendations for allocating skill points to those secondary chars - NPCs points do NOT belong in conversation skills (appraisal, bluff, diplomacy, intimidate, taunt)
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Secondary characters
I don't use my secondary party members for talking if I can help it but sometime in a cutscene you can end up with a secondary character up front doing some of the talking. I play a mage at times and I don't want him to do the talking nor do I want him up front. I want my charater with the highest Charisma to doing the talking or in the case of Khelgar bluffing.
I don't use skill points per default recommendations. I use them to give me the best character depending on their role in the party. I have not bothered with crafting so I don't put any points in that skill and use them wisely because of the possibility of your party changing. That leaves you short changed in a skill you might need for your party and everybody gets points in Heal.
Kel
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Hi darthelema0101, thanks for the post.darthelema0101 wrote:Unfortunately, your secondary party members are not normally considered to be talkers. This means that when you initiate conversations with just about anybody, it does not matter where your main character is, they get PUT into the conversation at conversation distance.
This is also why it is not worth it to use the default recommendations for allocating skill points to those secondary chars - NPCs points do NOT belong in conversation skills (appraisal, bluff, diplomacy, intimidate, taunt)
I don't use my secondary party members for talking if I can help it but sometime in a cutscene you can end up with a secondary character up front doing some of the talking. I play a mage at times and I don't want him to do the talking nor do I want him up front. I want my charater with the highest Charisma to doing the talking or in the case of Khelgar bluffing.
I don't use skill points per default recommendations. I use them to give me the best character depending on their role in the party. I have not bothered with crafting so I don't put any points in that skill and use them wisely because of the possibility of your party changing. That leaves you short changed in a skill you might need for your party and everybody gets points in Heal.
Kel
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"Time is a honest judge and a relentless master ..... Use it well or regret it later."
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"Time is a honest judge and a relentless master ..... Use it well or regret it later."
*
Just to be clear, the order that the character icons appear in doesn't mean anything. The only way you can set some semblance of a marching order is to go to the behavior panel of your companions and change their follow distance.Kel wrote:I just mentioned the one time you can get some sort of order in your party's marching order was when you left the Sunken Flagon.
If you really want to control what your companions do, then turn on puppet mode.
That seems like an odd choice. The way the campaign is set up, there's almost no need to use healing kits, and thus no need to develop the heal skill.That leaves you short changed in a skill you might need for your party and everybody gets points in Heal.
SWC
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Yeah, the AI is really stupid. I put my henchmen on puppet and play BGesque since they are too stupid to let them do what they want. Even with this, they still run off to solo mobs but meh. With the proper build and strategy, you can solo almost every encounter in the game.
As far as marching order, there is no way to set it up like in BG and IWD, unfortunately. Best you can do is control who you want in front and set the following distance for the others.
Conversations. I will go and check this, but I thought your character was automatically switched with whomever initiated the conversation. So, your character talks in all convos.
Yep, "recommend" is useless for henchies IMO if you want them to be powerful. And putting any pts in convo skills for them is useless as well.
Heal is no good? Sure those kits are heavy, but they are everywhere. I seem to find more of them than potions. Plus, heal kits can heal poison and disease if your skill is high enough. Those things sure are heavy though...
As far as marching order, there is no way to set it up like in BG and IWD, unfortunately. Best you can do is control who you want in front and set the following distance for the others.
Conversations. I will go and check this, but I thought your character was automatically switched with whomever initiated the conversation. So, your character talks in all convos.
Yep, "recommend" is useless for henchies IMO if you want them to be powerful. And putting any pts in convo skills for them is useless as well.
Heal is no good? Sure those kits are heavy, but they are everywhere. I seem to find more of them than potions. Plus, heal kits can heal poison and disease if your skill is high enough. Those things sure are heavy though...
Healing Kits Make It Easy For Everyone To Heal.
I realize that there is no marching order in the game nor is there much real control of your party. The puppet mode is a lousy choice for party control as I tried that. I did use the Behavior Tab to stop Elanee from turning in one of her animal forms because at that time she was my spellcaster and could not cast spells when she took on one of her other forms. I noticed that my spellcasters and archers were taking too much damage because Khelgar and Shandra were going after the enemy archers and spellcasters. The enemy archers and spellcasters could be taken care of with my archers and spellcasters instead of having to go toe to toe with fighters they let through by running off.
This is where the Heal skill comes in because it allows party membes to heal other party members without my Paladin running back to do the heavier healing when necessary. I have all my party members carry Healing Kits so that they can help keep each other alive. The latest incident was the case of the Luskan spy in Malin's(?) house and it kept Sand and Elanee alive while they were doing their casting of spells because they were prime targets of the enemy fighters.
I started developing my characters in this way I think way back in Might and Magic VI and have used it ever since if possible. I have yet to regret it and M&M VI was a long time ago.
Fighters and especially tanks are supposed to take the brunt of an attack and protect the weak characters in a party from other fighters before running after archers or spellcasters if they are still alive.
I have found that in this game the lack of your party acting like a party is 'imho' a major flaw by the developers. You always watch your teammates back as they are supposed to watch yours which helps to stay alive.
Thank god for the Space bar [PAUSE] it at least lets you have some control over who attacks who in the beginning of a battle and during a battle.
Kel
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Hi SWC, thanks for the post.swcarter wrote:Just to be clear, the order that the character icons appear in doesn't mean anything. The only way you can set some semblance of a marching order is to go to the behavior panel of your companions and change their follow distance.
If you really want to control what your companions do, then turn on puppet mode.
That seems like an odd choice. The way the campaign is set up, there's almost no need to use healing kits, and thus no need to develop the heal skill.
SWC
I realize that there is no marching order in the game nor is there much real control of your party. The puppet mode is a lousy choice for party control as I tried that. I did use the Behavior Tab to stop Elanee from turning in one of her animal forms because at that time she was my spellcaster and could not cast spells when she took on one of her other forms. I noticed that my spellcasters and archers were taking too much damage because Khelgar and Shandra were going after the enemy archers and spellcasters. The enemy archers and spellcasters could be taken care of with my archers and spellcasters instead of having to go toe to toe with fighters they let through by running off.
This is where the Heal skill comes in because it allows party membes to heal other party members without my Paladin running back to do the heavier healing when necessary. I have all my party members carry Healing Kits so that they can help keep each other alive. The latest incident was the case of the Luskan spy in Malin's(?) house and it kept Sand and Elanee alive while they were doing their casting of spells because they were prime targets of the enemy fighters.
I started developing my characters in this way I think way back in Might and Magic VI and have used it ever since if possible. I have yet to regret it and M&M VI was a long time ago.
Fighters and especially tanks are supposed to take the brunt of an attack and protect the weak characters in a party from other fighters before running after archers or spellcasters if they are still alive.
I have found that in this game the lack of your party acting like a party is 'imho' a major flaw by the developers. You always watch your teammates back as they are supposed to watch yours which helps to stay alive.
Thank god for the Space bar [PAUSE] it at least lets you have some control over who attacks who in the beginning of a battle and during a battle.
Kel
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"Time is a honest judge and a relentless master ..... Use it well or regret it later."
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"Time is a honest judge and a relentless master ..... Use it well or regret it later."
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