Before I start I would like to point out that I know the story to Icewind Dale off by heart but I've never played HOW as I've just got it so please avoid spoilers for the 2 expansions, thanks.
I've created a party of Human Paladin, Human Fighter, Dwarven Cleric, Elf Druid, Halfling Thief and Half-Elf Mage. I'm playing in Heart of Fury mode and started at level 1 even though they recommended starting at level 13. Its tough but I'm managing ok and nearly finished the Vale of the Shadows now. Anyway, I was wondering what level people would recommend a competent player starts HoW in Heart of Fury mode and whether they think a party like this would be adequate enough to cope with it. They are managing pretty well, but relying heavily on Cleric and Druid summons and spells like entangle, especially when dealing with large numbers of enemies.
I don't know my stats off hand but if anyone wants them then I'll write them down next time I play and add them.
Thanks.
HOF build HoW (please keep spoilers to a minimum)
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Crenshinibon
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If you feel that they're managing alright then by all means stick with them. It's all a matter of strategy on HoF modes. I'd like to remind you that HoW doesn't have an experience cap but rather a level cap of thirty. So if you create a Fighter/Mage/Thief and get enough experience, all three classes would be at level thirty. There is disadvantage for the mage and thief parts put the fighter is limited to two points per weapon. Heart of Winter grants you a lot of experience for some easy quests, experience that is in the hundred thousands. I think that you should go to HoW either right before or after Dragon's Eye. Note that it will be a while before you get back. Also, if feel that I must warn you that if you do have Trials of the Luremaster installed hold off on it until you're almost done. Again, it gives a lot of experience but it is very difficult at low levels. After beating HoW however, the original Icewind Dale campaign will feel incredibly easy. Or that's my opinion at least. I do not remember if the HoF mode in the original is similar to the one in IWD II but if you do gain more experience I'd recommend dual classing your fighter before he hits thirty. Anyway, yeah, if you feel that you're going through alright them by all means continue, just remember those tough parts ahead.
“The world breaks every one and afterward many are strong at the broken places. But those that will not break it kills. It kills the very good and the very gentle and the very brave impartially.”
You get a lot more experience in HoF - over 2000xp just for a goblin lol, although I also had a single goblin wipe out my entire party when they were level 1 :laugh:
I've got Trials of the Luremaster installed so I'll wait til nearer the end then. Also, I didn't know about the level cap rather than XP cap so thanks for that and I'll dual my fighter when he's a bit higher level (my party are all between level 7 and 9 at the moment).
Edit: My fighter doesn't have the right stats to dual class to thief, he is one short on dexterity - can you remember if there is a potion or something that changes the dexterity. I know there is one where you can lose 1 dex permanantly and gain 1 charisma but is there one that can add 1 dex permanently?
I've got Trials of the Luremaster installed so I'll wait til nearer the end then. Also, I didn't know about the level cap rather than XP cap so thanks for that and I'll dual my fighter when he's a bit higher level (my party are all between level 7 and 9 at the moment).
Edit: My fighter doesn't have the right stats to dual class to thief, he is one short on dexterity - can you remember if there is a potion or something that changes the dexterity. I know there is one where you can lose 1 dex permanantly and gain 1 charisma but is there one that can add 1 dex permanently?
I don't believe that there's any Dex-increasing potions.
I would recommend going to HoW later rather than earlier, for two reasons:
1) The first fighting area in HoW is one of the toughest in the game, particularly with all the extra monsters added for HoF mode.
2) Many of the best spells in the game are hard to find, and the Severed Hand and Lower Dorn's are two of the best areas to fill your mage's spellbook.
I'd be a little concerned about the thief. I can state for a fact that it will cap out its levels, as will all the others except perhaps the mage. I played a game in HoF from lvl 1, and my bard maxed out in the aforementioned first fighting area of HoW and my paladin maxed out in the first map of TotL - I played through the main part of IWD until I got the six b____, then went to HoW. A pureclass thief also isn't all that effective in combat - if you're willing to make a switch, I'd recommend making a fighter/thief for a powerful archer or a mage/thief for a secondary caster.
If you decide to do this again, multiclass characters are the way to go, with the exceptions of the non-multiable (if that's a word) paladin and bard. Melee combat is surprisingly effective once you manage to lay your hands on some decent protective items, and spellcasters multiclassed to warriors make much better archers, especially in the early game. As you've found out, XP is not a factor, so now is the time to test out those multi and dual-class characters.
I would recommend going to HoW later rather than earlier, for two reasons:
1) The first fighting area in HoW is one of the toughest in the game, particularly with all the extra monsters added for HoF mode.
2) Many of the best spells in the game are hard to find, and the Severed Hand and Lower Dorn's are two of the best areas to fill your mage's spellbook.
I'd be a little concerned about the thief. I can state for a fact that it will cap out its levels, as will all the others except perhaps the mage. I played a game in HoF from lvl 1, and my bard maxed out in the aforementioned first fighting area of HoW and my paladin maxed out in the first map of TotL - I played through the main part of IWD until I got the six b____, then went to HoW. A pureclass thief also isn't all that effective in combat - if you're willing to make a switch, I'd recommend making a fighter/thief for a powerful archer or a mage/thief for a secondary caster.
If you decide to do this again, multiclass characters are the way to go, with the exceptions of the non-multiable (if that's a word) paladin and bard. Melee combat is surprisingly effective once you manage to lay your hands on some decent protective items, and spellcasters multiclassed to warriors make much better archers, especially in the early game. As you've found out, XP is not a factor, so now is the time to test out those multi and dual-class characters.
When your back is against the wall... the other guy is in a whole lotta trouble.
The XP, high level mage scrolls and items you can get in HoW will in fact make the remaining game easier, but unless you can't bear having a mage with empty spell slots I recommend waiting with starting HoW as long as you don't face any serious trouble in the normal game.
The monsters you'll have to face before being able to get back to Kuldahar are harder than the monsters you'll face in the normal game.
It's doable when your party is experienced enough to start it (300,000 XP everyone), but I'd keep a saved game just in case.
Many have started HoW with a level 9 party and decided to retry when they were more experienced - at normal difficulty.
I'd start TotL as late as possible, I recommend the HoW "point of no return" (you already know the "point of no return" for the basic game) before leaving for the Sea of Moving Ice, it's harder than the rest.
Your only chance to raise dex by 1 permanently is a random potion in the Severed Hand (+1 dex for -1 str), you have a 33 percent chance to get it (1 of 3 possible items).
Your party is a far away from a powergaming one, the game would be easier if you replaced most of your characters with newly created powergaming characters, but HoF mode is still doable with your roleplaying party, just not as easy.
The monsters you'll have to face before being able to get back to Kuldahar are harder than the monsters you'll face in the normal game.
It's doable when your party is experienced enough to start it (300,000 XP everyone), but I'd keep a saved game just in case.
Many have started HoW with a level 9 party and decided to retry when they were more experienced - at normal difficulty.
I'd start TotL as late as possible, I recommend the HoW "point of no return" (you already know the "point of no return" for the basic game) before leaving for the Sea of Moving Ice, it's harder than the rest.
Your only chance to raise dex by 1 permanently is a random potion in the Severed Hand (+1 dex for -1 str), you have a 33 percent chance to get it (1 of 3 possible items).
Your party is a far away from a powergaming one, the game would be easier if you replaced most of your characters with newly created powergaming characters, but HoF mode is still doable with your roleplaying party, just not as easy.
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Crenshinibon
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I've played IWD II on HoF and was able to solo it starting at level one with a sorcerer and a rogue, no other classes added. Yes, you level very quickly but the start is more of hit and run or magic missle and then run around for seven seconds.
I do not think that there is an item that gives you a dexterity bonus. A fighter/thief is very powerful but as you can't dual class to a thief try a mage. Both, my fighter/mage/thief and my bard were able to solo the game by buffing themselves. I'd look out for Tenser's Transformation that spell is a very powerful buff. Don't be afraid to use multiclass characters if need be, none of the receive any penalty aside from the experience division... well... the fighter, as stated before, only gets two points in a weapon, but it's not that bad.
I'd suggest against powergaming as the game is not that flexible but don't forget the element of strategy.
I do not think that there is an item that gives you a dexterity bonus. A fighter/thief is very powerful but as you can't dual class to a thief try a mage. Both, my fighter/mage/thief and my bard were able to solo the game by buffing themselves. I'd look out for Tenser's Transformation that spell is a very powerful buff. Don't be afraid to use multiclass characters if need be, none of the receive any penalty aside from the experience division... well... the fighter, as stated before, only gets two points in a weapon, but it's not that bad.
I'd suggest against powergaming as the game is not that flexible but don't forget the element of strategy.
“The world breaks every one and afterward many are strong at the broken places. But those that will not break it kills. It kills the very good and the very gentle and the very brave impartially.”
I chose a pure thief purely cos I like halfling thieves lol. If fighter/thieves make better archers though then I might have to consider that as I usually use my thief as backup to my main fighters (as well as for her thieving skils) so equip her with a short bow.
I might see how I get on with my party as it is as I've put hours into this game now, but if it gets too hard then I might start another game and play both simultaneously - and take the multiclass game into HoW.
Thanks for all your suggestions and if you have anymore then please continue to add them
Edit: @ Crenshinibon - I don't like powergaming, I prefer to roleplay (even in games like IWD 1 & 2) which is one of the reasons I chose the party I did. I kind of made a party which would be like a band of adventurers which the paladin gathered together, which is why they each have seperate qualities that they add to the party.
I might see how I get on with my party as it is as I've put hours into this game now, but if it gets too hard then I might start another game and play both simultaneously - and take the multiclass game into HoW.
Thanks for all your suggestions and if you have anymore then please continue to add them
Edit: @ Crenshinibon - I don't like powergaming, I prefer to roleplay (even in games like IWD 1 & 2) which is one of the reasons I chose the party I did. I kind of made a party which would be like a band of adventurers which the paladin gathered together, which is why they each have seperate qualities that they add to the party.
I have to say that I'm not a huge fan of Tenser's. It prevents spellcasting, so you'd better not use it for any really nasty battles, or you're giving up too many options. I found that my dual-class F/M actually got worse in terms of Thaco with TT. Good for single-class mages in small-to-moderate battles, but not good when in a larger battle where you might need to cast more spells to turn the tide.
A multiclass F/D is one of the most powerful characters. It's a great slinger once you buff up with fighter-only Str-increasing items, and a good secondary tank (I recommend spears for melee distance). With certain items, the water elemental shapechange can become entirely immune to slashing damage, and if you cast 5-10 Static Charges before shapechanging...
Another powerful class is a F/M or Fighter/Illusionist. A high level (13+) dual-class is extremely powerful once it regains fighter levels, but a multiclass can definitely contribute more evenly throughout the game. It's nice to have a mage with which you can use touch spells and cone/fan/spray spells without fear. With the increased durability of summons, one of my favourite tactics is to summon undead, put them in a mass of Entangles (not Web, because Web makes them too easy to hit) and Cloudkills, draw in some patsies with a Free-Actioned tank, then cast Cone of Cold, which has no damage cap and won't damage the undead. Mirror Image with Stoneskin is also a great way to fight effectively in melee without having to cast Heal every 3 rounds. A F/M can also use Sunfire and Malavon's Rage to best advantage.
I took a halfling F/T once that was specialized in bows and crossbows (I didn't want it anywhere near melee attackers in HoF). That way, I could pick my weapon based on the availablility and power of my ammunition. I believe the Hammer Longbow +4 has been taken out with HoW (at least I've never seen it since), but the Repeating Heavy Crossbow is still around. This character was without question my most effective and versatile ranged assassin ever. Also, a surprisingly good melee weapon for a F/T is a staff; you can sneak attack without getting up close and personal (e.g. becoming a target). The 17 Str cap on a halfling F/T is of no consequence once you find the multiple copies of fighter-only Gauntlets of Ogre Power. A pureclass thief has maybe 1/4 of the power of a F/T, because of Thaco, ApR, and the lack of powerfully-enchanted shortbows.
With HoF, I would also recommend installing at least one component of Auril's Bane, the best mod for IWD. Stacking arrows in lots of 500 makes for fewer ammo runs and less inventory headaches.
Oh, and if you haven't figured out that sneak attack (attack from side or back when not targeted by your own target) is better than backstab (thief must be invisible and attack from behind), change it in your console.
A multiclass F/D is one of the most powerful characters. It's a great slinger once you buff up with fighter-only Str-increasing items, and a good secondary tank (I recommend spears for melee distance). With certain items, the water elemental shapechange can become entirely immune to slashing damage, and if you cast 5-10 Static Charges before shapechanging...
Another powerful class is a F/M or Fighter/Illusionist. A high level (13+) dual-class is extremely powerful once it regains fighter levels, but a multiclass can definitely contribute more evenly throughout the game. It's nice to have a mage with which you can use touch spells and cone/fan/spray spells without fear. With the increased durability of summons, one of my favourite tactics is to summon undead, put them in a mass of Entangles (not Web, because Web makes them too easy to hit) and Cloudkills, draw in some patsies with a Free-Actioned tank, then cast Cone of Cold, which has no damage cap and won't damage the undead. Mirror Image with Stoneskin is also a great way to fight effectively in melee without having to cast Heal every 3 rounds. A F/M can also use Sunfire and Malavon's Rage to best advantage.
I took a halfling F/T once that was specialized in bows and crossbows (I didn't want it anywhere near melee attackers in HoF). That way, I could pick my weapon based on the availablility and power of my ammunition. I believe the Hammer Longbow +4 has been taken out with HoW (at least I've never seen it since), but the Repeating Heavy Crossbow is still around. This character was without question my most effective and versatile ranged assassin ever. Also, a surprisingly good melee weapon for a F/T is a staff; you can sneak attack without getting up close and personal (e.g. becoming a target). The 17 Str cap on a halfling F/T is of no consequence once you find the multiple copies of fighter-only Gauntlets of Ogre Power. A pureclass thief has maybe 1/4 of the power of a F/T, because of Thaco, ApR, and the lack of powerfully-enchanted shortbows.
With HoF, I would also recommend installing at least one component of Auril's Bane, the best mod for IWD. Stacking arrows in lots of 500 makes for fewer ammo runs and less inventory headaches.
Oh, and if you haven't figured out that sneak attack (attack from side or back when not targeted by your own target) is better than backstab (thief must be invisible and attack from behind), change it in your console.
When your back is against the wall... the other guy is in a whole lotta trouble.
I don't recommend installing AB, it adds far overpowerpowered equipment and a few extra unfair battles which are easy to manage with preknowledge.
There's no need to spoil your game with a mod if it works fine without.
If you happen to find equipment (like armor) druids can use which grants physical damage resistance keep it. It's cumulative with the 75 damage resistance water elemental form grants.
Try to buy the "Clasp of Bron's Cloak" from Orrick before you start chapter 2 and his inventory changes. (The rogue's cowl you can buy from him in chapter 2 and 3 is also great.)
There's no need to spoil your game with a mod if it works fine without.
If you happen to find equipment (like armor) druids can use which grants physical damage resistance keep it. It's cumulative with the 75 damage resistance water elemental form grants.
Try to buy the "Clasp of Bron's Cloak" from Orrick before you start chapter 2 and his inventory changes. (The rogue's cowl you can buy from him in chapter 2 and 3 is also great.)
Ok, I'm at the Severed Hand now (on level 3) and my party are still coping ok so I've decided to stick with them for the time being. Just a quick question though. If I did dual class my fighter to a fighter/thief, what level would you recommend doing this, bearing in mind that I will only have my Paladin left as the main melee tank if I do so (until I get to a high enough level to get the fighter levels back)? My fighter is currently at level 12.
Anytime after hitting lvl 13. I might try for 15, for the extra proficiency point and better Thaco (which is nice in TotL, btw). I maxed out a fighter/druid dual class that dualed at fighter lvl 13, and a thief levels up much faster than a druid.
When your back is against the wall... the other guy is in a whole lotta trouble.
Level 13 is probably the best level since you already get the last extra half attacks for fighters then.
Thief thac0 progression stops at level 29 with 6 so thac0 won't improve before fighter level 16. Base thac0 is capped at 1 which you reach at fighter level 20 but 6 is already perfect for most enemies.
Fighter saving throws are maxed out at level 17 so the only benefit you gain after level 20 are weapon profiency points, which are the main benefit from the fighter levels.
The gap between **** and ***** in a weapon is huge (1 full extra attack per round) and you can't add points after dualclassing, so if you have **** in a weapon now it's worth waiting longer for example.
For specific advice I need to know how you spent the profiency points. Under certain conditions it might be better not to dual at all.
Thief thac0 progression stops at level 29 with 6 so thac0 won't improve before fighter level 16. Base thac0 is capped at 1 which you reach at fighter level 20 but 6 is already perfect for most enemies.
Fighter saving throws are maxed out at level 17 so the only benefit you gain after level 20 are weapon profiency points, which are the main benefit from the fighter levels.
The gap between **** and ***** in a weapon is huge (1 full extra attack per round) and you can't add points after dualclassing, so if you have **** in a weapon now it's worth waiting longer for example.
For specific advice I need to know how you spent the profiency points. Under certain conditions it might be better not to dual at all.