I think so.
Anyone remember the significant fights in SoA ...when your party was hovering around LVLs 9-12...when battles were true chess matches so-to-speak? That kind of tension seems largely absent to me in the expansion.
I think the problem is HLA's. They make the game too easy, even on the higher difficulty settings. Although, I think the OVER ABUNDANCE of high powered weapons and artifacts contributes to the problem as well.
I'm always hearing from folks around here about 'solo-ing' and MODS to increase difficulty but has anyone just tried playing ToB without any HLA's?
How tough are you without UAI, GWWs, Improved Alacrity etc?
Not trying to egg anyone on here but, seriously, ...I think HLAs are horrendous cheese. True, they are legitimate assists in a handful of the really tough encounters but for the most part, they seem completely unbalanced and over-powering.
Are there any legit mods out there that completely disable HLA's? Anyone complete the game with ZERO HLA use??? I'd love to hear about it.
ToB boring???
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Crenshinibon
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They don't help that much. I've soloed ToB with a Wild Mage without the use of any high level abilities. Not that difficult. The only thing that helps is the Planetar, which I didn't use in favor of other spells. For some characters though, you need to use those abilities. You can't go toe to toe with the main baddie of ToB if you're a vanilla thief without any of the traps and so forth. Good luck hitting her.
“The world breaks every one and afterward many are strong at the broken places. But those that will not break it kills. It kills the very good and the very gentle and the very brave impartially.”
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Really??? That's impressive. I was thinking a party of 4-6 with no HLAs or uber-weapons would be a challenge and a half. I'd imagine you'd have to know the game inside and out to manage a solo effort...have everything planned to a tee.Crenshinibon wrote:I've soloed ToB with a Wild Mage without the use of any high level abilities. Not that difficult.
I have no idea how you would complete the finale with a single character and with no HLA use. Someone should put a video of that on YouTube.The only thing that helps is the Planetar, which I didn't use in favor of other spells.
My thoughts:
ToB is Bioware's answer to AD&D epic-level adventuring. ToB delivers some of the highest levels of weapons, magicks, abilities, and monsters that a AD&D game has to offer. This is either a Good Thing or a Bad Thing, depending on your preference. (Some powergamers probably love this, which is cool. Personally, I agree with the RPG Guy about ToB's overabundance. Having +3 weapons on every barstool didn't make the story feel epic, just a game trying to be epic.)
All three BG games (BG1, SoA, and ToB) offer a nice contrast to each other. In BG1, a lone wolf made me sweat, a bandit's arrow colored my portrait red, an ogre gave me cause to retreat, and identifying a Sword +1 gave me cause to celebrate. SoA gave a huge variety of options, making combat almost chess-like, as you described. And a poster here once mentioned that the only way ToB could have been more epic was if characters were throwing planets at each other.
All are fun and challenging (or not) in contrasting ways, all depending on personal preference and ability. I've read about how the finale of Watcher's Keep was originally made to be extremely challenging, but was toned down to help ensure that less-devoted players wouldn't have to replay a combat over and over, and potentially stop playing altogether out of sheer frustration. The masses must be served!
Being probably only an average player, and going through the game only once, and typically not knowing what was around each corner, I thought all three games were well-balanced: not too hard, not too easy, some reloading, but usually not multiple times. But, I also used a handful of self-imposed rules. In ToB, for example, I only selected one GWW per character, until all other available HLA's were also selected for that character. (I prefer to see all the options a game has to offer, useless or otherwise.) Many battles would have been very hard (for me) without using that one timely GWW; on the other hand, one GWW per day didn't allow me to overwhelm anybody.
So, I think using self-imposed restrictions, or mods, or whatever else forms the contrast for the type of game you prefer, is the way to go. Some of us need to not use HLA's to make it challenging, while some of us would find the additional reloads to be tedious. For me, one GWW per day per character is my ticket. They're fun to use, but don't overwhelm.
ToB is Bioware's answer to AD&D epic-level adventuring. ToB delivers some of the highest levels of weapons, magicks, abilities, and monsters that a AD&D game has to offer. This is either a Good Thing or a Bad Thing, depending on your preference. (Some powergamers probably love this, which is cool. Personally, I agree with the RPG Guy about ToB's overabundance. Having +3 weapons on every barstool didn't make the story feel epic, just a game trying to be epic.)
All three BG games (BG1, SoA, and ToB) offer a nice contrast to each other. In BG1, a lone wolf made me sweat, a bandit's arrow colored my portrait red, an ogre gave me cause to retreat, and identifying a Sword +1 gave me cause to celebrate. SoA gave a huge variety of options, making combat almost chess-like, as you described. And a poster here once mentioned that the only way ToB could have been more epic was if characters were throwing planets at each other.
All are fun and challenging (or not) in contrasting ways, all depending on personal preference and ability. I've read about how the finale of Watcher's Keep was originally made to be extremely challenging, but was toned down to help ensure that less-devoted players wouldn't have to replay a combat over and over, and potentially stop playing altogether out of sheer frustration. The masses must be served!
Being probably only an average player, and going through the game only once, and typically not knowing what was around each corner, I thought all three games were well-balanced: not too hard, not too easy, some reloading, but usually not multiple times. But, I also used a handful of self-imposed rules. In ToB, for example, I only selected one GWW per character, until all other available HLA's were also selected for that character. (I prefer to see all the options a game has to offer, useless or otherwise.) Many battles would have been very hard (for me) without using that one timely GWW; on the other hand, one GWW per day didn't allow me to overwhelm anybody.
So, I think using self-imposed restrictions, or mods, or whatever else forms the contrast for the type of game you prefer, is the way to go. Some of us need to not use HLA's to make it challenging, while some of us would find the additional reloads to be tedious. For me, one GWW per day per character is my ticket. They're fun to use, but don't overwhelm.
Why is it that whenever I finally get around to playing a new game for the first time,
I feel like playing Baldur's Gate for the second time...
I feel like playing Baldur's Gate for the second time...
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See? That's why I'm kicking myself for not playing BG1. I was comparing the SoA experience to the ToB experience and that's not fair I suppose.CFM wrote: All three BG games (BG1, SoA, and ToB) offer a nice contrast to each other. In BG1, a lone wolf made me sweat, a bandit's arrow colored my portrait red, an ogre gave me cause to retreat, and identifying a Sword +1 gave me cause to celebrate. SoA gave a huge variety of options, making combat almost chess-like, as you described. And a poster here once mentioned that the only way ToB could have been more epic was if characters were throwing planets at each other.
If I'm honest with myself, I probably would have developed the 'trilogy' the same way, with three unique aspects to AD&D gaming you mentioned.
BG1 = struggle, starvation
BG2 = the process of ascension to power
ToB = battle of the gods
I agree that the 3 parts together provide a *complete* experience which is probably why the BG games are so highlt regarded/revered.
The problem still stands, however, that most of the encounters in ToB are too trivial in relation to the power of your squad, especially with HLA's. Although, I just fought Abazigal last night and he humbled me a bit. I had to play chess to beat him and had no problems (using my HLAs of course) but even then, the bas-hard goes mental when 'near death' and seeks out a Jan or HD in my party (low HP/AC) and incinerates them with his blue dragon lightning breath, making it impossible to raise them. Result = reload. He did this to me twice in a row last night. Talk about going out in style!
Mhmmm.. BG1? I remember when i played it and for some reason attacked Drizzt. lol did my poor party get sliced to bits! To make a comparison, just *clua* Drizzt and Abazigal and join the drow to the party, so that Abazigal targets him...
On the side note, i remember reading a guide for BG1 that explained a simple encounter with a fighter and a mage that try to rob you: "Cauton, Jemby is a mage!" Jemby (the level 5 human mage) was a serious threat because she could cast sleep an lightning on your party!!! Nowadays, Mr. Random Cowled Enforcer that gets thrown at you for wiping your nose with a spell scroll, is a serious threat because he can cast Horrid Wilting, True Sight, Mantle, Time Stop and Gate!!!!!! (that is, unless you get Corgan with the Cloak of Cheddar to *negotiate* with him)
On weather it's possible to beat ToB with a 4 man party without the use of HLA's - why, yes! Just pick a cleric and three sorcerers.. Oh, by the way, i don't impose rules to myself (apart from cheating the game in some way, such as talking to creatures while clobbering them so they stay neutral) but i do something rather restrictive. I never (i mean NEVER) let a party member die! I haven't used resurrection in the game ONCE! That, of course, increases my loadings ratio considerably, but death is nasty and i don't like it. So there
On the side note, i remember reading a guide for BG1 that explained a simple encounter with a fighter and a mage that try to rob you: "Cauton, Jemby is a mage!" Jemby (the level 5 human mage) was a serious threat because she could cast sleep an lightning on your party!!! Nowadays, Mr. Random Cowled Enforcer that gets thrown at you for wiping your nose with a spell scroll, is a serious threat because he can cast Horrid Wilting, True Sight, Mantle, Time Stop and Gate!!!!!!
(that is, unless you get Corgan with the Cloak of Cheddar to *negotiate* with him) On weather it's possible to beat ToB with a 4 man party without the use of HLA's - why, yes! Just pick a cleric and three sorcerers.. Oh, by the way, i don't impose rules to myself (apart from cheating the game in some way, such as talking to creatures while clobbering them so they stay neutral) but i do something rather restrictive. I never (i mean NEVER) let a party member die! I haven't used resurrection in the game ONCE! That, of course, increases my loadings ratio considerably, but death is nasty and i don't like it. So there
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