What's wrong with society, today? (no spam)

Tricky · Post by **Tricky** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 9:12 am

I heard an interesting statement today during college. There were tons of interesting quotes actually, but I'm just going to single out one.

'This is an age of individualism that knows no room for individual development.'
*not 'exactly' quoted because I have trouble remembering the wording

The professor elaborated on how we live in an 'every man for himself'-age, in which we are discouraged to explore the depth to which we can live our own lives, one that is not limited to what kind of popular philosophy we can 'buy' (both relating to our conscience and our money). Conjecture and criticism slides off the little me-bubble we stubbornly choose to live in, which is more or less the extend of our life-experience.

I'm not particularly interested in reactions to his claims, but I'd like to hear about people's own views. What is wrong with society, what way are we heading, is it really a 'bad' thing, and so on.

Discuss.

TEMPLAR67 · Post by **TEMPLAR67** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 9:39 am

I dont think that your going to get a whole lot of other opinions because your professor is 100% right, this is the most self centered society that i have ever seen, even people that you call your friends will not think twice before stabbing you in the back. As for opinions on what is wrong with our society, well that could take a while.

AvatarOfLight · Post by **AvatarOfLight** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 9:49 am

I'll just state that a lot of things are probably wrong with society, but this has ALWAYS been the case. Society is far too large and diverse to accurately say pretty much anything meaningful about it. Also, saying friends stab each other in the back these days is worrying to me. I'm very sorry to hear this is your experience, but it has very little to do with society I assure you. Good friends and ***holes are of all ages.

Vicsun · Post by **Vicsun** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 11:03 am

Wait, I thought there was more than one society and different societies differed. One of us has been mislead.

Well, for what it's worth, my society is doing just fine, thank you.

edit: mine also happens to be a secret society. Don't know about yours.

Tricky · Post by **Tricky** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 11:26 am

[QUOTE=Vicsun]Wait, I thought there was more than one society and different societies differed. One of us has been mislead.

Well, for what it's worth, my society is doing just fine, thank you.

edit: mine also happens to be a secret society. Don't know about yours.[/QUOTE]

Okay, fair enough. You spotted an unintentional generalisation, one that doesn't have anything to do with rotting herring for a change. At least give me the privilege of telling at what happy corner of the world you are living.

[QUOTE=AvatarOfLight]I'll just state that a lot of things are probably wrong with society, but this has ALWAYS been the case. Society is far too large and diverse to accurately say pretty much anything meaningful about it. [/QUOTE]

Well, society surely hasn't always been large. I'm reading an interesting chapter right now about small, male communities in ancient Greece that were completely dedicated to (constantly) achieving a measure of physical and mental independence. Self reflection and motivation were important to them as individuals as well as to their community. It may or may not be impossible to translate such a lifestyle to the global community. I'll leave that up for the philosophers to ponder.

TEMPLAR67 · Post by **TEMPLAR67** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 11:49 am

Vicsun wrote:Wait, I thought there was more than one society and different societies differed. One of us has been mislead.

Well, for what it's worth, my society is doing just fine, thank you.

edit: mine also happens to be a secret society. Don't know about yours.

im not sure what society you live in but it is not just the United States that has problems, everyone may remember the riots in France a couple years ago (give or take), the entire middle east is a sespit of violence, north korea, venezuela, and so many others. The entire world seems to be going insane

mr_sir · Post by **mr_sir** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:24 pm

TEMPLAR67 wrote:I dont think that your going to get a whole lot of other opinions because your professor is 100% right, this is the most self centered society that i have ever seen, even people that you call your friends will not think twice before stabbing you in the back. As for opinions on what is wrong with our society, well that could take a while.

I disagree with that statement. Yeah there are a lot of people who would stab people in the back, but it has nothing to do with friendship but more that person's personality. I have friends who I trust 100% with everything, including my life, and they have never ever got close to stabbing me in the back. Granted, I've had "friends" who have stabbed me in the back but they were never really friends or they would never have even contemplated doing that. True friends are hard to find, but once you find them they are friends for life.

TEMPLAR67 wrote:im not sure what society you live in but it is not just the United States that has problems, everyone may remember the riots in France a couple years ago (give or take), the entire middle east is a sespit of violence, north korea, venezuela, and so many others. The entire world seems to be going insane

The world isn't going insane, its been insane for millenia. What was the point in the Crusades that killed so many innocent people just because they had a different religion? Why were women who were different persecuted for being witches? I could list a whole side of A4 of insane things that have happened over the last few millenia. What do they all come down to? The world is a mess because of the inability for many people to accept those who are different to themselves, whether it be a different religion, sexuality, nationality, colour, or even a different generation or gender in some cases. Add this intolerence with the natural selfishness of the human race (lets face it, humans have generally always been selfish to one degree or another), and we have our problem.

TEMPLAR67 · Post by **TEMPLAR67** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:19 pm

The world isn't going insane, its been insane for millenia. What was the point in the Crusades that killed so many innocent people just because they had a different religion? Why were women who were different persecuted for being witches? I could list a whole side of A4 of insane things that have happened over the last few millenia. What do they all come down to? The world is a mess because of the inability for many people to accept those who are different to themselves, whether it be a different religion, sexuality, nationality, colour, or even a different generation or gender in some cases. Add this intolerence with the natural selfishness of the human race (lets face it, humans have generally always been selfish to one degree or another), and we have our problem.

You make a good point, the violence just seems to be on a greater scale because of a media that only reports the bad stuff, and as long as there are at least 2 humans on this planet there will be violence, it appears that it is sadly human nature.

Gilliatt · Post by **Gilliatt** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:30 pm

TEMPLAR67 wrote:You make a good point, the violence just seems to be on a greater scale because of a media that only reports the bad stuff, and as long as there are at least 2 humans on this planet there will be violence, it appears that it is sadly human nature.

I don't agree with the last part of your comment: I know far more nice people than violent people. This brings me back to the first part of your comment, on which I agree mostly: we hear a lot more about the violent ones.

TEMPLAR67 · Post by **TEMPLAR67** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:41 pm

I don't agree with the last part of your comment: I know far more nice people than violent people.

As do I, I believe I mispoke, Im not saying that EVERYONE is violent, but as long as there are at least 2 ppl here there will most likely be greed and jelosy (especially jelosy) which often leads to violent behavior, but your right not everyone violent.

Gilliatt · Post by **Gilliatt** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 2:02 pm

TEMPLAR67 wrote:As do I, I believe I mispoke, Im not saying that EVERYONE is violent, but as long as there are at least 2 ppl here there will most likely be greed and jelosy (especially jelosy) which often leads to violent behavior, but your right not everyone violent.

I think what you mean is there is too much violence in this world and there will always be, unfortunately. If that is your point, I agree 100 %.

TEMPLAR67 · Post by **TEMPLAR67** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 2:24 pm

I think what you mean is there is too much violence in this world and there will always be, unfortunately. If that is your point, I agree 100 %.

Now we agree

. But what do you believe is the cause of all this violence and hate, is it possible that humans are inheritly evil:mischief:

Claudius · Post by **Claudius** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 3:15 pm

I think societies are more insular now. We try and become more and more independent. To have everything we need by ourselves. In third world countries they have a lot of suffering for various reasons but perhaps it is made up for by having community. People help eachother. Thats one of the most beautiful experiences giver or receiver. Not to say that it doesn't happen in the west, but there is also a mentality to be self sufficient and not need anything. Or not get involved in your neighbors.

My ideas were influenced by Ethics in the New Millenium, da lai Lama

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 3:30 pm

TEMPLAR67 wrote:Now we agree . But what do you believe is the cause of all this violence and hate, is it possible that humans are inheritly evil:mischief:

First of all, how are you defining "evil?" Evil is a relative term that depends on a cultural context, as well as a certain set of moral values.

Secondly, to describe anything in such sweeping terms is, no offense intended, ridiculous. It can't do anything more than end up in meaningless platitudes and clichés.

No.
Humans are extremely complex, and are made up of varying shades of grey, both individually and collectively.

Also, I tend to think that humans have not really changed significantly through the course of evolution and historical eras. It is simply that as we have become more "sophisticated" and technologically advanced, all aspects of humanity are amplified and appear on a far grander scale.

Vicsun · Post by **Vicsun** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 4:03 pm

dragon wench wrote:First of all, how are you defining "evil?" Evil is a relative term that depends on a cultural context, as well as a certain set of moral values.

Is morality really completely defined by culture and fully relative?

Also, I tend to think that humans have not really changed significantly through the course of evolution and historical eras. It is simply that as we have become more "sophisticated" and technologically advanced, all aspects of humanity are amplified and appear on a far grander scale.

I'm inclined to disagree. Women have equal-ish rights and we have managed to put an end to slavery, witch burning and a few other nasty things, as well as tone down torture a great deal. I think society has developed and improved. For the most part. Unless that is what you mean by sophisticated, in which case my question would be "what more could you expect?"

TEMPLAR67 · Post by **TEMPLAR67** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 4:06 pm

First of all, how are you defining "evil?" Evil is a relative term that depends on a cultural context, as well as a certain set of moral values.

what im saying is that everyone, including you and me have the ability to do evil if we desired to, its not only crazy people like in this most recent event at VT that do evil things. Imagine, a man comes home from work and finds his wife in bed w/ someone else and kills both of them, it does not matter where a person is from or what kind of life they have led, anyone can commit and evil act at the drop of a hat

Vicsun · Post by **Vicsun** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 4:09 pm

TEMPLAR67 wrote:what im saying is that everyone, including you and me have the ability to do evil if we desired to, its not only crazy people like in this most recent event at VT that do evil things. Imagine, a man comes home from work and finds his wife in bed w/ someone else and kills both of them, it does not matter where a person is from or what kind of life they have led, anyone can commit and evil act at the drop of a hat

the ability to do evil doesn't make anyone evil

TEMPLAR67 · Post by **TEMPLAR67** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 4:11 pm

i never said it did, i was just stating a fact

Now we agree. But what do you believe is the cause of all this violence and hate, is it possible that humans are inheritly evil

when i said that earlier i was just posing a ?, i never said that is what i believe

Vicsun · Post by **Vicsun** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 4:27 pm

TEMPLAR67 wrote: when i said that earlier i was just posing a ?, i never said that is what i believe

To answer your ? with a ?, let me pose this ? to you: if we were all inherently evil, would we have a word for the concept of evil and would we frown upon that concept.

People aren't evil. They're not good either. We just are.

Tricky · Post by **Tricky** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 4:29 pm

Fable, could you weed out this topic a bit, add a nospam tag maybe? It's fine to disagree, but lengthy discussions about one person's personal feelings on the matter bring the risk of dragging the thread off topic.

I just want to hear what everyone has to say on society. Every good, every bad idea. I'm takin it all in.