Casting restrictions due to armor

[limitedwhole]

I am currently playing a game with all six mages. Anyone have a list of armors that do not restrict casting? Maybe a vet out there will help ol poor me? I plan on using mostly robes but was wondring if there was any good armours for a couple front line mages with Fire hands and shocking grasps and such. I know bracers work too but just wondering. For insttance just the asfeyrlund elven restict casting?

Also unrelated, can I duel class to wildmage? If I wanted thirty levels in wildmage, this would give me 500,000 exp to use in another class, right? Not sure how secoind edition rules work.

Thanks.

[mr_sir]

IIRC Elven Chainmail has no casting restrictions

[kmonster]

You cannot dual to wild mage. (unless you use an editor)

[Grombag]

You can indeed cast spells with elven chain mail. This includes Bladesinger Chain +4 (late soa) and Aslyferund Elven Chain +5 (ToB). Also the chainmails found on the drow in the underdark allow spelcasting, but are only usable in the underdark (there are some workarounds though). There is also the Melodic Chain +3, but is only usable by bards.
In the beginning you will be dependand from bracers of defence alot, since most of these won't start to show up until later in the game.

As for dual classing, I suggest you search the forum about it. It works very different as in 3rd edition rules.

[Crenshinibon]

Don't forget the Elven Chain that's availible quite early in SoA (Spoiler):

Spoiler

From the leader of the Luraxoll family of Trademeet.

[limitedwhole]

Thanks guys, a big help. One other thing. Hard to find some of the basic info. now that my party has been leveling up a bit, I realised that Nalia can get proficiencies other than shortsword with level ups. Can she get double proficiencies or is that precluded by her mage class. If she can would it be worth getting a different proficiency than swortsword? Also can she get at least two ranks in two weapon fighting? What about Aerie? Can she get multiple ranks in duelwield and use Crom Fayr (25 STR hammer) with something main hand? How often do characters get proficiencies?

Edit: Finally do NPC's get HLA's or just the PC, cause Jan with use any item and simulcrum would be sweet. This would also allow him to wear the Melodic Chain (as long as that doesn't nerf thief skills anyways). Does sylvan chain or the Jester's chain stop casting? Thanks.

[Crenshinibon]

Only rangers (kits included), barbarians and swashbucklers (a thief kit) can put two points into weapon specialization. Fighters (kits included) can put up to five. Everyone else can spend a single point. As for what weapons to spend your points on, it depends on her role. If you want her to be a backstabber then get shortswords and single weapon style as it gives you bonus AC. Forget about dual wielding as it slightly worsens your THAC0 in exchange for extra attacks. As a Thief/Mage your THAC0 is low enough so you want all the THAC0 you can get, that's why you use single weapons. Look for high +THAC0 bonuses on weapons. I do not think that either of those characters can get more than one in two weapon style. I suggest putting points into Short Swords, Scimitars, Two Weapon Style, Single Weapon Style and Darts, maybe bows or slings. Your choice. Maybe even quarterstaves as there's a VERY nice one waiting for you, given that you decide to get it. The rate of proficiency gain depends on class. For Aierie, so she can actually hit something, if you *must* give her Chrom Fayer, in the main hand, ideally, Rune Hammer +5 or Flail of Ages +5 (if you have ToB) and Skullcrusher +3, Mace of Disruption +2 or Flail of Ages +3 if you have SoA. During my playthrough, I rarely get Chrom Fayer as I find the girdle too good an item to use, especially if you're in a party as in some circumstances a hammer just won't do.

NPCs get high level abilities as well. Jester's chain disables thief and mages skills. The Sylvan chain does not, niether does the Melodic Chain.

[Saros]

You have a group of six spellcasters and you're concerned about their AC? Well, have you even read the spell Spirit Armor?

Wearing armor for any kind of character is only approvable when the armor gives some great bonuses other than AC. Such armor is, for instance, The Human Leather, which gives 20% MR and +4 bonus to all saving throws. Unfortunately, the armor disables spellcasting.

The best item that a thief/mage or a bard can use is indeed the +5 elven chain you receive in ToB because of the Normal Weapon Immunity it gives. Otherwise, the second best armor for a mage is the robe of Good/Neutral/Evil archmagi because of the limited MR and saving throw bonus. There are six such robes in the game(3 of the Good, 2 of the Evil and only 1 of the Neutral archmagi). Still, do not forget that Jan can actually wear any one of these, not necessarily the Neutral one which you can give to another character if need be.

The ultimate robe is of course the Robe of Vecna. That is the armor that any mage should have. Unfortunately, there is only 1.

Valygar's family armor is also nice and in an unmodded game it does not restrict spellcasting when worn by a thief-mage.

Armor class is irrelevant, since it matters only in the beginning chapters. After that almost anyone can hit you even through an AC -24. Better emphasize on your other protection spells(Stoneskin, Mirror Image and Prot from Magical Weapons)

[QuenGalad]

The chainmail from ToB does indeed grant protection from normal weapons. But I don't remember a single foe in ToB that uses a normal weapon. A +1 weapon is "normal" no longer, and they all tend to have +2 or more in ToB.

[Grombag]

Draconis uses his fist which are treated as normal weapons. Futhermore IIRC the companions of the first of the 5 bhaalspawn's companions have normal weapons. You are however correct to say that that feature doesn't have an enormous impact.

[limitedwhole]

You have a group of six spellcasters and you're concerned about their AC? Well, have you even read the spell Spirit Armor?

Yes, have you ever read the spell dispel magic?

Erm, how bout oracle?

The armour was a backup in case of dispelling and so that I didn't have to buff up for every wimpy minion that exists.

[Cuchulain82]

Yes, have you ever read the spell dispel magic?

I'm with Saros on this one- you should buff and go into every battle with six artillery batteries, not worrying too much about AC. The only problem you could have with 6 mages (as opposed to, say, 6 sorcerers) is the inability to find scrolls. But I'm sure you can remedy that with careful management.

@Crehsnibon

Paladins can put two stars as well. I think you left them out (not that it matters that much).

[Crenshinibon]

Yes, sorry about that. I'm not a big fan on paladins so I can let it slide. XD

I let bards and mage/thief characters wear the Robe of Vecna as casting quickly is more important than AC.

[Saros]

Yes, have you ever read the spell dispel magic?

Erm, how bout oracle?

The armour was a backup in case of dispelling and so that I didn't have to buff up for every wimpy minion that exists.

And have you ever tried Spell Immunity: Abjuration and Divination? I assure you, there are enough scrolls of SI in the game and some allies even know this spell by default, like Aerie.

Besides, not everyone uses dispel magic and even if he does - not everyone's Dispellation is powerful enough to dispel your buffs.

Spell Shield will be your problem though as it is needed too. Yet, if you're lucky enough, you can have 5 of these and with a PC sorcerer this means a Shield for everyone.

I forgot about Blur. It not only improves your AC by 3 but also gives a saving throw bonus.

In ToB there are many enemies who use normal weapons. All of the soldiers in Yaga-Shura's army, for instance. This means that with this mail your character has to be worried only about the Fire Giants when facing Yaga.

[Cuchulain82]

One more thought- you know that you won't be able to put on the armor unless your characters are dual classed, right? Mages can't wear armor, so you'll have to be a Fighter/Mage, or a Cleric/Mage, or whatever.

[limitedwhole]

Right, I know that the robes are pimp, but I won't have robes for everyone the whole game. So I wanted to put armour on a few characters to go up front and use cone of colds, skockoing grasps etc. While my other mages uses spells from teh rear. To me resting every 2 minutes is lame. You can get allot more mileage if you don't buff for the wimpy minions and instead just rely on AC. Sure they still hit you allot, but they only get one swing, cause they are dead. So essentially the Ac boost just makes it where your front mages don't die in a single round to a hasted troll. They still get hit, but not as often. I am not talking about trying to make them into uber tanks. But cutting 30% of my enemy hits down gives my party allot more staying power.

In the end, if I find all the robes they will probably be using those, but as you go through the game, you don't have access to al those robes, and if I find a nice piece of elven chain then I will use it appropriately.

You guys are such minmaxers that you place your assumptions on me and asume that I want to make some uber AC tank. Thats not what I wanted to do. I justr wanted to utilize some armour, to reduce the rate at which my frontline mages get hit without using half my spell book on every battle. I didn't want to make them unhittable or claim that they would be with elven chain.

Edit: You know who loves to reload the game after walking into enemies and dying, then use half his spell bbok to buff, then use protecting spells to prevent his opponent from dispelling his buffs, instead of just banishing his enemies to the outer planes?...Elminster, sarcasm noted. But I forgot, using half your spell book to cast buffs and spending your whole life resting is so uber, because on paper you charater looks good for 1 round per level.

[BlueSky]

I remember the first time I played the game and had equipped my party with armor and then for the life of me, could not figure out why some of them could not use their magic..:laugh: ..never was much of a read the manual (read me's)

[Saros]

Right, I know that the robes are pimp, but I won't have robes for everyone the whole game. So I wanted to put armour on a few characters to go up front and use cone of colds, skockoing grasps etc. While my other mages uses spells from teh rear. To me resting every 2 minutes is lame. You can get allot more mileage if you don't buff for the wimpy minions and instead just rely on AC. Sure they still hit you allot, but they only get one swing, cause they are dead. So essentially the Ac boost just makes it where your front mages don't die in a single round to a hasted troll. They still get hit, but not as often. I am not talking about trying to make them into uber tanks. But cutting 30% of my enemy hits down gives my party allot more staying power.

In the end, if I find all the robes they will probably be using those, but as you go through the game, you don't have access to al those robes, and if I find a nice piece of elven chain then I will use it appropriately.

You guys are such minmaxers that you place your assumptions on me and asume that I want to make some uber AC tank. Thats not what I wanted to do. I justr wanted to utilize some armour, to reduce the rate at which my frontline mages get hit without using half my spell book on every battle. I didn't want to make them unhittable or claim that they would be with elven chain.

1. The most important protection spells have nothing to do with AC. The Spirit Armor is great for its spell saving throw bonus +3, the Blur is great for its +1 to all saving throws bonus, and the other important protection spells who help in the rest of the situations are Protection from Magic(or Normal) weapons, Mirror Image, Invisibility radius 10'/Improved Invisibility/Shadow Door, Stoneskin(of course) and various Spell Immunities. Some examples.

A troll battle. Jan in the party,casts Invisibility radius 10'. All disappear, whoever has been hit casts Stoneskin and Mirror image again, steps back, whoever hasn't - goes front. And when all are ready, you unleash 6 spells simultaneously.

A grand melee with Drow attacking your front mage. Well, cast Prot from Magical weapons and for 4 rounds the Drow will hit an invulnerable character while you can kill them.

Shadow door is a great spell, I often use it. Because unlike Improved Invisibility, it has a short casting time, meaning you can actually use it for saving your character. Mislead looks better in that connection, but 1 - it occupies a sixth lvl slot which are anyway needed, and secondly - Mislead leaves you with a decoy. meaning that enemy mages will continue casting area effect spells on the decoy thus affecting your character.

Combine illusion spells with SI: Divination and no one will detect you via True Sight and similar spells.

BtW - if you want additional armor buffs, use Bless&Chant in combat via a Minor Sequencer with Aerie

BtW, in chapter six, you ought to have 4 robes already - 2 of the Good Archmagi, 1 of the Evil and 1 of Vecna. This means that 4 of your mages have ultimate armor. And don't forget that Jan's armor is actually one of the best, so here is your fifth character also armored. If, however, you want an additional armor for him, there is an Elven chain early in the game.

[Crucis]

@Saros,

Don't forget that there are some lesser robes around as well, like the Knave's Robe, the Adventurer's Robe, and so forth, and the Robes of Fire Resistance, of Cold Resistance, and so forth. Clearly, they're not anywhere near as potent as the Robe of Vecna or Robes of the Good/Neutral/Evil Archmagi, but they're better than nothing.


@limitedwhole,

I realize that you are looking for physical robes because you're looking for protections that do not have be cast. You should note that there simply aren't that many armors in 2e that you can cast spells while wearing. Not to be overly critical, but by choosing to play a party of 6 mages (which is, of course, your choice) you've sort of left yourself open for all this sort of arcane advice.

To be honest, when you discuss that you like having armors/robes that provide constant protection that does not have to be summoned via spell
castings, you sound more like a fan of warriors, not mages, since most of the
time a mage's best defenses are those that he casts upon himself and a meatwall of big, strong, plate-wearing tanks. But since you have a party of mages, they're all looking at each other, wondering who's in the melee wall and who gets to hide in the rear.

Anyway, good luck with your party of mages.

[Celacena]

slight spoilers

Yes, sorry about that. I'm not a big fan on paladins so I can let it slide. XD

I let bards and mage/thief characters wear the Robe of Vecna as casting quickly is more important than AC.

not a big fan of paladins? well, until I played one this time round, nor was I - BUT my guy is now level 25 Undead hunter - immune to level drain, a few priest spells and arguably the best sword in the game Carsomyr - the Holy Avenger - +5 and dispels magic each hit as well as giving 50% MR - with the girdle of fire giant strength, that's a 22 STR and after ToB's initial stages he has WIS of 20 and CHA of 21 - without using the Ring of Human influence.
(stats STR22 (19 naked) DEX 18 (drained in Hell) CON 19 INT 9 WIS 20 CHA 21 (19 natural?) - turns undead as level 23 cleric - i.e. most explode on sight.
with MR at 95% and immunity to level drain and various other 'problems' sorted - the guy is a total tank - he does get pulped a bit when he gets multiple high-level opponents all whacking on him (e.g. shambling mounds), but spellcasters and undead have a very rough time.
I have Staff of the Ram (upgraded) Carsomyr, Purifier and Flail of Ages as my main weapons - sometimes dualling FoA and Purifier if I want a lot of attacks.
the character utterly fits the role-play mould of a paladin - goody-goody in helping civilians and not tolerating evil creatures. as a role play - a paladin who leads from the front is refreshingly corny.
I also have Nalia in the party - she's level 24 or thereabouts as a mage - with having a few project images memorised, she rarely needs to use up her supplies of spells, scrolls or charges. having Sir Anomen as main cleric (about level 31) those 3 wield enough fire-power to dispose of most things.

I have often chosen summon deva as the paladin's special ability and he can now do 8 - yes 8 - summon devas per day. sending them into battle ahead of the party - Nalia can summon a planetar, which is even better and Sir Anomen gets a few sendings himself. using wizard eye - you can have an advance guard of skeleton warriors backed up by a deva who casts globe of blades before engaging the enemy. that kind of advance party tears holes in any ambush.

as for armour and casting - the robe of vecna is probably the best item, but the robes of the archmagi are good, as is elven chain and sylvan chain. there is no heavier armour that allows casting without it being an exploit/bug.

what IS handy is that some scale armour (AC -1/-2) can be used by rangers without taking away the hiding ability. it is always worth checking if an armour is prohibited, as some oddities have crept in to the permitted classes.