Giving Children Alcohol?

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 8:52 pm

While engaged in some research I came across this article, and found it quite interesting on a number of levels. To be upfront, in our home we, in fact, use the 'de-mystification model' in that we give our son small amounts of wine and beer. This is how I was raised, and it taught me to drink responsibly. When I got into my teens and saw my friends trying to secure alcohol and getting smashed as a consequence I just rolled my eyes.. to me there really wasn't anything all that exciting about alcohol... likely because it wasn't "forbidden" to me.

Anyway, here is the article, I'm curious as to peoples' thoughts.

[url="http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=1104642006"]Expert: Give Alcohol to Children as Young as Five[/url]

KATE FOSTER CHIEF REPORTER

CHILDREN from the age of five should be encouraged to drink wine at home to prevent the toll of alcohol abuse in later life, one of the country's leading experts on the problem has told Scotland on Sunday.

Jack Law, chief executive of Alcohol Focus Scotland and a member of the Scottish Ministerial Advisory Committee on Alcohol Problems, believes the practice would cut binge drinking among youngsters by taking the mystery out of alcohol.

Law, who is helping ministers draft new alcohol policies to tackle the nation's appalling health record, believes parents should also drink more responsibly themselves to set a good example.

But he said families need to accept that children do experiment with alcohol, so giving them small tastes diluted with water will encourage them to drink responsibly.

While no-one below the age of 18 is allowed to buy alcohol, children can be given drink in the home from the age of five, which would allow Law's proposals to be put into effect.

The idea has been welcomed by some campaigners, but others - including senior Executive medical officers - have hit out at the idea of giving young children alcohol to drink.

Law believes current alcohol education policies are failing and says urgent action is needed to change Scotland's drinking culture.

He said: "While it is illegal to give alcohol to a child under the age of five, and the legal drinking age is 18 for very good reasons, we think it is acceptable to offer children small tastes, diluted with water, because there's a real mystery about alcohol. It is reasonable that in the home children are offered tastes with food.

"We need to accept that many young people do experiment with alcohol and many parents do allow their children to taste alcohol at home. It is perfectly reasonable to explain the risks associated with drinking and how to make it safer.

"What happens on the continent is that some children get very small tastes of alcohol, often diluted with water. It's all about enabling them to feel part of a positive social experience. The exact age of the child is a judgment call for the families. Parents have to then think about how they drink themselves. Encouraging adults to drink less in the home provides a positive example to their children."

Law also believes Scotland needs more robust policies on alcohol, including a consistent education programme for children from the age of 10.

The average Scot drinks more than 11 litres of alcohol a year compared with seven litres in the 1970s. Half of Scotland's teenagers drink alcohol at least once a month, with many drinking to excess outside the home.

The Executive is drawing up a new action plan on alcohol, to be published later this year, which is expected to contain a range of public health measures aimed at discouraging excessive drinking.

Law is advising ministers on the plan and has shared his views with them.

But his comments were last night criticised by public health chiefs. The Executive's deputy chief medical officer, Professor Peter Donnelly, said it was "not appropriate" to give alcohol to children under the age of 14.

He said: "Parents have a responsibility to instil in their children a sensible approach to alcohol consumption. It is for parents to decide how best to do this.

We do not consider it appropriate to give alcohol to those under 14, and it is also very important to note that it is illegal and dangerous to give alcohol to those under five."

Dr Laurence Gruer, the director of Public Health Science for NHS Health Scotland, said: "I'm not aware of any evidence that approach could be used to get young people on the track. It could be argued that it would simply hasten the stage of drinking to excess later in life.

"Part of the issue is that countries like France already have a more rational approach to alcohol. They don't drink to excess and they don't have lots of kids binge drinking at the weekend. They don't have the heavy drinking culture we have, but there's more to it than simply the fact that parents give their kids a tipple when they're young. We have this culture of drinking to excess among adults and that needs to be tackled."

But Charles Metcalfe, chairman of the International Wine Challenge, applauded the idea. He said: "It's refreshing to see experts come out with an idea which does seem to work among our continental colleagues and, from my own experience, it's worked in my own family."

AmpaSand · Post by **AmpaSand** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:01 pm

My experts are dumb.

In NZ we have this massive youth drinking culture and its really out of hand it all started when the drinking age was lowered from 20 to 18.

recently there was this massive party (600 people) and there was nearly a riot after 2 15 year olds were hit by a car cos the party had crossed the road.

Siberys · Post by **Siberys** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:02 pm

I can't see the logic in this. It's not like alcoholism is caused by people who decide to drink for the first time in there life on a sudden whim. This can happen that way, but it's not the only cause.

So, exposing kids to alcohol at an early age just so they don't abuse it later isn't going to work in my opinion. Mostly because I doubt the kid is going to understand at all what is going on, too young to realize that it's alcohol. And this can have negative consequences, as it's not simply teaching that the stove is hot so don't touch it, if the kid drinks alcohol and is totally fine with the taste for some odd reason, what's to stop him from continuing the behavior whether or not he's told it's bad, it's something that they can easily disobey and drink behind his/her parents back.

superbob263 · Post by **superbob263** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:59 pm

I think that this Idea could work but it all depends on the relationship between kids and there parents. If the parents who are trying this usually let the kid do what ever he/she wants to do anyway then what's keeping the kid from going hey I liked that so he goes over to the alcohol cabine and drinks a whole bottle of wisky or something and gets totally knocked out. On the other hand if the parents in question have rules that are for the most part always fallowed then the kid could think "and I am not sure exacly how parents would set this up it could be a treat medicine or asepecial ocasion type of thing and hey always get relativly the same amount then said child could potentaly grow up being perfecty content on just having that little amount that he/she always thought was just fine and that would be........

I am really sorry I cannot finish been up for over 36 hours and I have to get some sleep34.r341r

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 10:16 pm

@superbob,
I think you may be right in that.. I mean, with our son, in many ways we treat him very much as an equal, and as a result he is extremely mature for his 12 years. However, we also have rules, and he knows that while we trust and respect him, we also expect him to behave responsibly.

There are a couple of things I should probably add here, lest people think I am naive about alcohol and alcoholism, or that I live in some kind of idealistic bubble.
When I found that article, I was, ironically enough, looking for information on the effects of alcoholism on children, because somebody close to me is the adult child of an alcoholic. So, trust me, I have witnessed first-hand the impacts of alcoholism in a family..... There are few things more horrible than growing up with an alcoholic parent, and it leaves a lasting impact as those children move into their adult lives..
Just an FYI

Ode to a Grasshopper · Thu Jul 12, 2007 10:21 pm

And here I was thinking the mystery of alcohol was "Oh, my head...OMG, what on Earth did I do last night?"

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 10:23 pm

@Ode,
lmao!

Thanks, I needed the humour there

Chimaera182 · Post by **Chimaera182** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 11:16 pm

I was 11 or 12 at a baseball game with my parents. I told my mom I was thirsty, she said, "Take a sip of my beer." That was my introduction to alcohol... and I've hated beer just about ever since.

I would think 5 would be rather early for that sort of thing. I don't know if I would do something like that with my kids, but I would sure as heck rather they started drinking under my supervision than out at some party, where they'll think it's okay to drink and then go galavanting across town.

Karembeu · Post by **Karembeu** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 11:52 pm

Whichever subject debated you'll always find one so-called expert (in this case Jack Law) that goes against the mainstream view (which doesn't always have to be a bad thing).

The statement that giving children (as young as 5 years old) alcohol to "prevent" them from becoming alcoholics later in life doesn't seem to be backed up by any studies, more just an opinion from this so-called expert.

On the other hand a lot of studies (and recently published ones) show that an early onset of alcohol and tobacco use is a clear indicator of enhanced risk of addiction to these substances.

One study published in March this year (Zeitschrift für Kinder- und Jugendpsychiatrie und Psychotherapie) concludes that:
The findings replicate in a German sample the role of the age of first use as a significant risk factor for consumption of alcohol and tobacco even at a very early stage of substance use. It remains for future studies to investigate whether the relationship is causal or noncausal.

No studies seem to suggest anything positive about giving children alcohol (even if its just a sip every now and then).

Kipi · Post by **Kipi** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 4:14 am

It's not just avoidinig the possible abuse of alcohol later, there may be other benefits when parents let their child taste alcohol at times in controlled situations. One benefit may be that when the child gets the possibility to taste alcohol, he may not try it in secret, and thus lots of bad things may be avoided.

Usually, when kid tastes alcohol in secret, there are "friends" around, and usually the tasting gets too far, resulting only bad things. On the other hand, this may be avoided if parents let the child taste alcohol (beer, cider, wine and such). In that case, the drinking happens in controlled environment.

In my opinion, good age for this would be around 14-15, as the age of 5 presented in article sounds way too early to me...

mr_sir · Post by **mr_sir** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 6:14 am

I was first given alcohol at the age of 6. As long as I can remember I was allowed a tiny little bit of wine etc. at Christmas or on special occasions, then once I reached my early teens I was allowed to have half a pint of cider or beer or one glass of wine if we had a special meal or if we went out for a meal. By the time I was 14 or 15 and my peers were going to the local park to drink cider and get drunk, I had no desire to do so. Alcohol was no big deal because I'd been drinking it responsibly my entire life. I'm still the same now. I enjoy a pint every now and then but I really do not find the idea of having alcohol exciting, its just something thats nice every now and then.

So...I'd agree in a way that its good to introduce kids to alcohol early but it does have to be done in the right way, controlled and responsibly. Just letting a kid drink whenever they want is not going to do any good in my opinion, but letting them having a little when everyone else is drinking because it is a special occasion takes away the "excitement" of underage drinking and it certainly helped me to not want to abuse alcohol in my teenage years.

Lady Dragonfly · Post by **Lady Dragonfly** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 4:43 pm

So...I'd agree in a way that its good to introduce kids to alcohol early but it does have to be done in the right way, controlled and responsibly.

And how would you guarantee that all parents readily follow the "right way"? And how would you guarantee that children would listen at all if they are given "the legal right" to drink? I think 21 is too high. But 5? I don't think so.

The legal drinking age widely (and wildly) varies: many countries even do not have the minimum legal age whatsoever (China, Romania etc). In Russia the legal age is 18, much lower than in the US. A lower age doesn't help much to curb alcoholism there though, does it. This law simply does not work there (along with many other laws that exist only on the paper) and the children start openly drink very early. In UK -- 5 yr, Denmark -- 1 yr, Finland -- 1 yr, Ireland -- 1 yr

. On the other hand, in Saudi Arabia, for example, alcohol consumption is prohibited for all.

It is a cultural thing. In a family of drunkards any law is a dead law. Some people will drink themselves into delirium and get their children along, law or no law. Same with the drugs and tobacco. Does not mean the laws have to be abolished.
Does a low minimum age really help "prevent" abuse? Let's have a look:

Binge drinking continues to be a problem in Ireland, Britain, Finland and Denmark, according to a European Union survey of alcohol consumption released Wednesday.
The poll, conducted in October and November (2006), found that almost one in five people between the ages of 15 and 24 reported drinking five or more alcoholic beverages in one session, or 19 percent of those asked across the 27-nation bloc, Croatia and northern Cyprus.

mr_sir · Post by **mr_sir** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 5:05 pm

Lady Dragonfly wrote:And how would you guarantee that all parents readily follow the "right way"? And how would you guarantee that children would listen at all if they are given "the legal right" to drink? I think 21 is too high. But 5? I don't think so.

Where did I say that I would guarantee that all parents readily follow the "right way"? In fact I never said all parents should give alcohol to their kids. I simply said that if its done in a responsible way then I don't see a problem with it and that it can be beneficial.

I also never once said that the legal age to drink should be lowered. No matter what the legal age, you will always end up with underage drinkers unless it is ridiculously low.

As for the drinking problems we have in the UK, I do feel that if parents educate and introduce their kids responsibly to alcohol then there is less of a desire to go out binge drinking. The problem is the fact that most parents either don't do this, seem to be incapable of doing this, or go binge drinking themselves. It has nothing to do with the legal drinking age. Binge drinking in the UK is a cultural thing ... changing the age limit for alcohol consumption will not change this unless the attitudes towards alcohol are also changed. This is what I meant when I said if kids are introduced to it responsibly. Unfortunately we do not live in an ideal world where everyone who has kids is responsible and who drinks alcohol responsibly. Kids learn from what they experience and see others doing. If their parents binge drink, then there is a good chance that they will. If their parents are responsible when drinking alcohol and introduce it to their kids in a responsible manner then the kids will be more likely to be responsible when consuming alcohol.

Lady Dragonfly · Post by **Lady Dragonfly** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 5:41 pm

I've not accused you of any of that. As a matter of fact, I tend to agree with almost all points you make. I just think that such drastic measures of alcoholism prevention as giving alcohol to 5 years old is questionable, to say the least.

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 6:29 pm

I can't claim any sort of expertise in this area, so I can't really offer any hard arguments on whether or not giving alcohol to children as young as five is too young.
What I do know, however, is that I was first given alcohol at the approximate age of four. From what I recall, it was a special occasion, New Year's, I think.. and the beverage in question was a small amount of Champagne.
(Er..yes.. I was up at New Year's at that age.. I've had erratic sleeping patterns my entire life and my parents gave up fighting them)

After that, I was given small amounts of wine and beer intermittently in a controlled environment, by the time I reached the age of around twelve, I was allowed wine and beer regularly at mealtimes. Incidentally, quite often when it was offered I turned it down.
The results? I drink very moderately (often enough, not at all), I've never binged and I have a fairly high threshold to the effects of alcohol.

We have used almost exactly the same approach with our son. It's, of course, too soon to tell, but so far it seems to be working out well. Recently, some of the older kids at his school managed to have somebody bootleg a couple of bottles of rum for them; they wanted him to join in and he flatly refused.
So...we'll see. So far, so good.