Yeah, it's a fairly boring subject I imagine. However, I haven't actually gotten around to beating ToB yet, so I dusted it off, installed it, and I want to have a go at it.
Here are the NPCs I want to use, mostly for interaction reasons and because I haven't tried some of them:
Mazzy (using short bows primarily)
Korgan (front liner)
Minsc (changed via shadowkeeper to a ranger/cleric or a berserker>druid because I want his personality transplanted into another class)
Imoen
Edwin
I'm using the happy NPC mod as well, so there won't be any out-and-out fighting between party members--hopefully just a lot of bickering.
Here are the classes I'm considering.
Inquisitor - Dispel, true sight, holy avenger
Monk - Never played one before
Something else - I'm not really wanting to go with a priesty type as my protagonist, but I might have to with the modified Minsc as my only priest...
Choosing a protaganist based on these NPCs:
Welcome to Gamebanshee.
I'm in favor of editing NPCs to make them suitable for your party and/or making them closer to the characters you envision them to be. For example, Minsc strikes me as a natural Barbarian, Berserker, or Inquisitor-- big two-handed swords, lots of (righteous) fury, and minimal spellcasting ability (excluding the Inquisitor's natural spell-like abilities). You could dual him to a Cleric or Druid if you increased his Wisdom and changed his alignment to make him a Druid, but his endless chatter about his sword wouldn't make any sense.
Needless to say, Mazzy is deadly with a bow. However, I don't really care for bows and arrows all that much anymore. (I played an Archer the first time I played Shadows of Amn and I loved it, but my interests have changed.) So personally, I would rather make Mazzy a melee warrior. (I might be preaching to the choir here, but if you give her a girdle of giant strength, she's just as capable as any other Fighter: she has the same hit points, THAC0, proficiencies, equipment choices, and High Level Abilities. Considering the fact that single-class Fighters are damage-dealing machines, you should never underestimate Mazzy.) If you're open to the idea of editing her, I would normally suggest making her an Inquisitor or a Cavalier as an alternative to a Fighter. It would suit her. (I would also reassign her proficiency points.) But if you decide to make Minsc an Inquisitor instead of a Cleric or Druid, then you need a divine spellcaster in your party, so I suggest that you make Mazzy a Fighter/Cleric. I think that would suit her, and having a Fighter/Cleric and an Inquisitor in your party would rock.
This is the NPC lineup I would suggest:
Mazzy (Fighter/Cleric)
Korgan (Berserker)
Minsc (Inquisitor)
Imoen (Thief dualled to Mage)
Edwin (Conjurer or Sorcerer)
With a party like that, your main character could be a Raggedy Andy doll and you'd still be fine.
But more divine spellcasting ability would be nice. Personally, I enjoy playing "priesty types" as my main character, and I think a Cleric/Ranger or a Berserker dualled to a Cleric would be perfect for a party like that.
I have a feeling that my own preferences are a lot different from yours, which just goes to show that you need to decide for yourself what you would like to play.
Good luck!
I'm in favor of editing NPCs to make them suitable for your party and/or making them closer to the characters you envision them to be. For example, Minsc strikes me as a natural Barbarian, Berserker, or Inquisitor-- big two-handed swords, lots of (righteous) fury, and minimal spellcasting ability (excluding the Inquisitor's natural spell-like abilities). You could dual him to a Cleric or Druid if you increased his Wisdom and changed his alignment to make him a Druid, but his endless chatter about his sword wouldn't make any sense.
Needless to say, Mazzy is deadly with a bow. However, I don't really care for bows and arrows all that much anymore. (I played an Archer the first time I played Shadows of Amn and I loved it, but my interests have changed.) So personally, I would rather make Mazzy a melee warrior. (I might be preaching to the choir here, but if you give her a girdle of giant strength, she's just as capable as any other Fighter: she has the same hit points, THAC0, proficiencies, equipment choices, and High Level Abilities. Considering the fact that single-class Fighters are damage-dealing machines, you should never underestimate Mazzy.) If you're open to the idea of editing her, I would normally suggest making her an Inquisitor or a Cavalier as an alternative to a Fighter. It would suit her. (I would also reassign her proficiency points.) But if you decide to make Minsc an Inquisitor instead of a Cleric or Druid, then you need a divine spellcaster in your party, so I suggest that you make Mazzy a Fighter/Cleric. I think that would suit her, and having a Fighter/Cleric and an Inquisitor in your party would rock.
This is the NPC lineup I would suggest:
Mazzy (Fighter/Cleric)
Korgan (Berserker)
Minsc (Inquisitor)
Imoen (Thief dualled to Mage)
Edwin (Conjurer or Sorcerer)
With a party like that, your main character could be a Raggedy Andy doll and you'd still be fine.
But more divine spellcasting ability would be nice. Personally, I enjoy playing "priesty types" as my main character, and I think a Cleric/Ranger or a Berserker dualled to a Cleric would be perfect for a party like that.I have a feeling that my own preferences are a lot different from yours, which just goes to show that you need to decide for yourself what you would like to play.
Good luck!
For some reason, I never considered changing Mazzy's class. That's a great idea, thanks. Minsc would also make a great Inquisitor.
I suppose I'll decide between Monk and Cleric/Ranger by just looking at my fantasy art collection until I find something that works as a portrait. First one I find becomes my character! Thanks for the suggestions, VonDondu
[edit] I haven't actually changed classes with Shadow keeper before. Is there a little tutorial on how to do it anywhere? I checked on the mud-master website as well as a quick google search but I haven't turned up anything. So far I'm just changing Minsc's stats to those of a freshly created inquisitor PC, but I'm running into issues when adding detect evil/true sight (it's saying he has too many spells of that level already).
Actually, I imagine it'd be easier if I just put his XP at 0, changed his class, and leveled him back up with CLUA commands, but I'm not certain which abilities the NPCs should be getting at level one...
[edit part 2] I have found [url="http://www.gamebanshee.com/forums/baldurs-gate-ii-shadows-of-amn-9/modding-jaheira-to-ranger-cleric-89042.html#post944877"]a thread on these very forums[/url] about modifying Jaheria to ranger/cleric. It looks like the steps provided would work for any NPC modification, but step 8 worries me.
[edit part 3] Well, it seems that changing Minsc to an inquisitor has worked so far. I just did what [url="http://www.gamebanshee.com/forums/baldurs-gate-ii-shadows-of-amn-9/kensai-thief-62713.html#post668516"]this post (also by you, Von!)[/url] described except I left his XP total alone--when I loaded the game, he leveled up to the appropriate level and automatically gained the abilities an inquisitor should have. I'm unsure if his 171 HP is appropriate for a level 8, though, since my 18 CON monk only has 88.
[edit 4] Sorry for the spam here -_-
Anyway, I gave it another shot and set Minsc's base HP to 1 before leveling him up as an inquisitor and now he's at 102 HP--that seems a little bit better than 171.
His saving throws seem spot on--I didn't have to change anything there. Proficiencies seem out of whack, though. He only got two pips to spend when I leveled him up to 8, but my PC test inquisitor had six to spend when I first made her.
I suppose I'll decide between Monk and Cleric/Ranger by just looking at my fantasy art collection until I find something that works as a portrait. First one I find becomes my character! Thanks for the suggestions, VonDondu
[edit] I haven't actually changed classes with Shadow keeper before. Is there a little tutorial on how to do it anywhere? I checked on the mud-master website as well as a quick google search but I haven't turned up anything. So far I'm just changing Minsc's stats to those of a freshly created inquisitor PC, but I'm running into issues when adding detect evil/true sight (it's saying he has too many spells of that level already).
Actually, I imagine it'd be easier if I just put his XP at 0, changed his class, and leveled him back up with CLUA commands, but I'm not certain which abilities the NPCs should be getting at level one...
[edit part 2] I have found [url="http://www.gamebanshee.com/forums/baldurs-gate-ii-shadows-of-amn-9/modding-jaheira-to-ranger-cleric-89042.html#post944877"]a thread on these very forums[/url] about modifying Jaheria to ranger/cleric. It looks like the steps provided would work for any NPC modification, but step 8 worries me.
I assume this means other NPCs would have affects that would need editing in/out?8) Don't touch the affects tab, Jaheira has none of importance.
[edit part 3] Well, it seems that changing Minsc to an inquisitor has worked so far. I just did what [url="http://www.gamebanshee.com/forums/baldurs-gate-ii-shadows-of-amn-9/kensai-thief-62713.html#post668516"]this post (also by you, Von!)[/url] described except I left his XP total alone--when I loaded the game, he leveled up to the appropriate level and automatically gained the abilities an inquisitor should have. I'm unsure if his 171 HP is appropriate for a level 8, though, since my 18 CON monk only has 88.
[edit 4] Sorry for the spam here -_-
Anyway, I gave it another shot and set Minsc's base HP to 1 before leveling him up as an inquisitor and now he's at 102 HP--that seems a little bit better than 171.
His saving throws seem spot on--I didn't have to change anything there. Proficiencies seem out of whack, though. He only got two pips to spend when I leveled him up to 8, but my PC test inquisitor had six to spend when I first made her.
Yeah, I've posted on subjects like this before. But here is a better recap.
The best way to edit any character is to set his/her level to 0 and remove all "affects", weapon proficiencies, innate abilities, and thieving skill points. Change the class and kit (if applicable), and select a new avatar (if you desire). You don't need to change saving throws, THAC0, or the number of spells the character can memorize--those will be adjusted automatically. Ideally, a level 0 character should start with 0 hit points, but it doesn't work in practice, so I set it to 1 or 2 and then remove those extra hit points later. I normally set the character's experience to 0 and level him/her up manually with CLUAConsole commands.
When you load the new saved game, the character will level up to 1st level automatically. At that point, he/she will acquire all of the abilities, proficiency points, spell slots, thieving skills, saving throws, THAC0, etc. that a 1st level character of that class should have. After you give him/her the correct amount of experience, he/she will level up to the appropriate level. If he/she started with 1 or 2 extra hit points at 0 level, you can remove them with Shadowkeeper. If you do all that, the character should be "perfectly" in compliance with the rules for the new class.
Some NPCs require special treatment if you edit them. For example, if you want to edit Imoen while you're still in Irenicus's dungeon, she is programmed to run away if she only has 1 hit point, so she needs more hit points than that at 0 level. Characters such as Yoshimo carry special items that they cannot use if you change their class. If you intend to dual-class a character such as Minsc, you have to change his stats to meet the dual-class requirements. Haer'Dalis isn't really a Blade (he's a specially modified Tiefling), but it doesn't seem to hurt anything if you change his class. Anomen got shortchanged on proficiency points when he was created (he should have four more proficiency points), and other NPCs have the incorrect number of thieving points and things like that, so editing will actually make them more likely to be in compliance with the rules of the game.
Dual-classing sometimes creates some minor difficulties. (It involves a flag that cannot be changed with Shadowkeeper; you have to use a program like Near Infinity.) If you run into any problems, just ask for help. I like to make Yoshimo a 7th Level Kensai dualled to a Thief (it's perfect for him), but I want him to have the avatar of a Monk. If you change his avatar to a Monk at level 0, the game automatically "corrects" it and changes it to the avatar of a Fighter, so you have to go back into Shadowkeeper and change it again. This also applies to Mages, who have a tendency to slip back into Thief or Fighter gear. There is a mod that has the option to make the armor animations "consistent"--it automatically changes your character's avatar every time you change armor. (I can't remember exactly which mod it is, but it's one of the popular tweak packs.) I don't recommend enabling that feature if you want to use a custom avatar.
But here is a better recap.The best way to edit any character is to set his/her level to 0 and remove all "affects", weapon proficiencies, innate abilities, and thieving skill points. Change the class and kit (if applicable), and select a new avatar (if you desire). You don't need to change saving throws, THAC0, or the number of spells the character can memorize--those will be adjusted automatically. Ideally, a level 0 character should start with 0 hit points, but it doesn't work in practice, so I set it to 1 or 2 and then remove those extra hit points later. I normally set the character's experience to 0 and level him/her up manually with CLUAConsole commands.
When you load the new saved game, the character will level up to 1st level automatically. At that point, he/she will acquire all of the abilities, proficiency points, spell slots, thieving skills, saving throws, THAC0, etc. that a 1st level character of that class should have. After you give him/her the correct amount of experience, he/she will level up to the appropriate level. If he/she started with 1 or 2 extra hit points at 0 level, you can remove them with Shadowkeeper. If you do all that, the character should be "perfectly" in compliance with the rules for the new class.
Some NPCs require special treatment if you edit them. For example, if you want to edit Imoen while you're still in Irenicus's dungeon, she is programmed to run away if she only has 1 hit point, so she needs more hit points than that at 0 level. Characters such as Yoshimo carry special items that they cannot use if you change their class. If you intend to dual-class a character such as Minsc, you have to change his stats to meet the dual-class requirements. Haer'Dalis isn't really a Blade (he's a specially modified Tiefling), but it doesn't seem to hurt anything if you change his class. Anomen got shortchanged on proficiency points when he was created (he should have four more proficiency points), and other NPCs have the incorrect number of thieving points and things like that, so editing will actually make them more likely to be in compliance with the rules of the game.
Dual-classing sometimes creates some minor difficulties. (It involves a flag that cannot be changed with Shadowkeeper; you have to use a program like Near Infinity.) If you run into any problems, just ask for help. I like to make Yoshimo a 7th Level Kensai dualled to a Thief (it's perfect for him), but I want him to have the avatar of a Monk. If you change his avatar to a Monk at level 0, the game automatically "corrects" it and changes it to the avatar of a Fighter, so you have to go back into Shadowkeeper and change it again. This also applies to Mages, who have a tendency to slip back into Thief or Fighter gear. There is a mod that has the option to make the armor animations "consistent"--it automatically changes your character's avatar every time you change armor. (I can't remember exactly which mod it is, but it's one of the popular tweak packs.) I don't recommend enabling that feature if you want to use a custom avatar.
animations
I like the way that armour, weapons and colour etc change on the sprite - it is good to see that the Staff of Rhyn is a big glowing blue stick and that certain swords are shaped and glow differently.
I think that Minsc is not suitable to become a druid - his wisdom and his dialogue options just do not fit. he would be better as a dim paladin, or a bererker/barbarian.
I have occasionally 'tweaked' NPCs using shadow-keeper and it can lead to the character having stats nearer your perception of the character. I often think that the DEX or STR of characters is wrong - how some characters would have succeeded without either brute force OR dexterity is a mystery and deserves correction.
Imoen is a special case in BG terms - she is a Bhaalspawn yet her stats and levels are modest - as the PCs sister, she deserves a few extra points of enhancement IMO.
Jaheira deserves a higher WIS, IMO - she demonstates considerable experience and is a Harper, yet her stats are not particularly good.
Anyhow, using SK is OK, but there is a temptation to cheat and give characters near-superhuman powers - just remember that the character should develop through the game.
I like the way that armour, weapons and colour etc change on the sprite - it is good to see that the Staff of Rhyn is a big glowing blue stick and that certain swords are shaped and glow differently.
I think that Minsc is not suitable to become a druid - his wisdom and his dialogue options just do not fit. he would be better as a dim paladin, or a bererker/barbarian.
I have occasionally 'tweaked' NPCs using shadow-keeper and it can lead to the character having stats nearer your perception of the character. I often think that the DEX or STR of characters is wrong - how some characters would have succeeded without either brute force OR dexterity is a mystery and deserves correction.
Imoen is a special case in BG terms - she is a Bhaalspawn yet her stats and levels are modest - as the PCs sister, she deserves a few extra points of enhancement IMO.
Jaheira deserves a higher WIS, IMO - she demonstates considerable experience and is a Harper, yet her stats are not particularly good.
Anyhow, using SK is OK, but there is a temptation to cheat and give characters near-superhuman powers - just remember that the character should develop through the game.
"All the world's a stage and all the men and women merely players"
back to the OP
the OP asks what to have - well, if Minsc is not twisted into a cleric, there is a big gap for clerical powers and healing - there is nobody to deal with Undead and nobody to protect the party to the degree that a cleric can. the obvious class for the PC would be a multiclass cleric - perhaps with thief?
arcane casting is covered, but the thief skills of Imoen are basic, nothing to add to the strategy of the game.
BTW Mazzy could be turned into a paladin - she certainly has the attitude for it.
the OP asks what to have - well, if Minsc is not twisted into a cleric, there is a big gap for clerical powers and healing - there is nobody to deal with Undead and nobody to protect the party to the degree that a cleric can. the obvious class for the PC would be a multiclass cleric - perhaps with thief?
arcane casting is covered, but the thief skills of Imoen are basic, nothing to add to the strategy of the game.
BTW Mazzy could be turned into a paladin - she certainly has the attitude for it.
"All the world's a stage and all the men and women merely players"
-
Jedi_Sauraus
- Posts: 417
- Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 2:06 am
- Contact:
With your NPC setup, I feel sorry for any who stand in your way :laugh: As for the protagonist, you can't go wrong with a monk. They get extremely powerful and are IMHO more interesting then the other options.
I've run through with a Cavalier and found him better than Keldorn
(An Inquisitor). Priests are not really necessary, though they make life easier. Restoration scrolls can be cast through projected images early in the game, before you get MoD +2. Once you have it undead cease to be anything but a minor annoyance.
I've run through with a Cavalier and found him better than Keldorn
(An Inquisitor). Priests are not really necessary, though they make life easier. Restoration scrolls can be cast through projected images early in the game, before you get MoD +2. Once you have it undead cease to be anything but a minor annoyance.
You need to level up to level one (which the game triggers automatically) and then you can add XP with CluaConsole to reach the desired level. If you level immediately to level eight without first activating level one, you're indeed missing out on proficiencies.TheAranan wrote:Proficiencies seem out of whack, though. He only got two pips to spend when I leveled him up to 8, but my PC test inquisitor had six to spend when I first made her.
"Sometimes Dreams are wiser than waking"