What are the best offhand weapons in the game?

Klorox · Post by **Klorox** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 8:31 pm

I'm of the strong belief that it's really not even worth dual wielding unless that offhand weapon provides a significant bonus. This can be either immunities, extra attacks, or greater STR.

The ones that immediately come to mind as great offhand weapons to me are:

Belm
Crom Faeyr
Kundane
Dak'kon's Zerth Blade
Defender of Easthaven

Please let me know of other weapons that make great offhand weapons in this game.

TIA

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 9:07 pm

It also depends on the class. Pure thieves for example shouldn't dual wield at all.

But the weapons I can think of:

Yamato +4
Boneblade +4
Hindo's Doom +4
Kachiko's Wakizashi +3
Usuno's Blade +4
Maybe Mace of Disruption +2

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 9:59 pm

I've been taking a Stalker through the game, and once I had two proficiency points apiece in longsword and katana, Pre-ToB, I had her dual-wielding Daystar and Celestial Fury.
Daystar is very nice to have equipped when dealing with undead, especially given its Sunray ability, and Celestial Fury isn't too shabby either.

I found this combo to be extremely effective.

Thrifalas · Post by **Thrifalas** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 3:43 am

The Equalizer is well known to be bugged, so while wearing it in your offhand, it gives its bonuses to your main hand as well. Combine that with its protective bonuses and you have, alongside Faeyr, arguably the best offhand weapon in SoA.

I fancy Angurvadal or Spectral Brand in my offhand as well. Immunity to level drain is never wrong, and they both have other good offhand abilties as well, combined with some extra damage.

The other good ones have kinda already been mentioned.

Solusek · Post by **Solusek** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 12:02 pm

Crenshinibon wrote:It also depends on the class. Pure thieves for example shouldn't dual wield at all.

But the weapons I can think of:

Yamato +4
Boneblade +4
Hindo's Doom +4
Kachiko's Wakizashi +3
Usuno's Blade +4
Maybe Mace of Disruption +2

Could you explain that to me please?
I mean, we're talking about *off-hands* here
Yamato, Hindo's Doom, and maybe Mace of Disruption make sense to me, but the other three?!

Boneblade is a simple +4 enchanted weapon, nothing special, no immunities, no stat gain, no nothing - totally beats me, why this should be one of the best off-hands ingame except for maybe the +2 thac0 bonus for small off-hand weapons, but I'm not sure if this is even implemented in BG2

Kachiko's Wakizashi!?!?!? A +3 enchanted scimitar that drains 2 points of wisdom on hit if I remember correctly. A weapon I've never ever used in any of my runs, cause I didn't even consider it worth the money. But even if you do use it, aren't you supposed to put weapons that "do xxx on hit" in the main hand, to maximize the effect? Correct me if I'm wrong.

Usuno's Blade: Decent weapon, yes. But again, nothing special. A +4 enchanted scimitar with a 10% chance of doing 2d10 lightning damage on hit. As with Kachiko's I'd put it in the main hand for the effect to procc as often as possible.

All in all I think good off-hands are supposed to have stats either the main hand or your character in general profits from, like extra attacks, additional spell slots, AC bonus, attribute increases, etc. etc. Nothing like that applies for the weapons you mentioned.

This isn't meant to sound ironic or anything, I'd just like to get the idea behind it. Why do you consider these weapons to be decent off-hands?

Here's a list of my favorite off-hands:

Crom Faeyr => 25 str of course

Belm/Kundane/Scarlet Ninja-To => extra attack per round

Arbane's Short Sword => Stun Immunity

Hindo's Doom => 10% Magic Resistance, Immunity to Death Magic, and well,

Greater Restoration can also come in handy

Anguvardal => 22 str, Negative Plane Protection

Spectral Brand => Negative Plane Protection

Rune Hammer => Negative Plane Protection, Fear Immunity

Axe of Unyielding => AC Bonus, Regeneration, etc. Though I prefer to use this one as a main-hand weapon

Yamato => AC Bonus

Sword of Balduran => 10% Magic Resistance, quite handy early in the game

Defender of Easthaven => AC Bonus, 20% piercing/slashing/blunt

Improved Mace of Disruption => Negative Plane Protection, though I prefer to use this one as a main hand for a better chance to utterly destroy undeads, and also because it hits like a +5 weapon.

The Equalizer: Immunity to Charm and Confusion

Scimitar +5, Defender(if you're evil and use the keep Drizz't's Equipment patch) => AC Bonus

Uhm... yes, that should be all

So long,
Sol

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 12:27 pm

Boneblade +4 gives an extra attack per round so MAGES or SORCERERS can use it in the offhand. And that works for me as my casters tend to be in close combat more than my fighters. Besides, without ToB, this is available BEFORE Cuthroat +4, making it a great Thief weapon. Thieves need THAC0. Badly.

That one is good for offhand or main hand as most monsters have 9 Wisdom to begin with. Also, it adds an extra attack. I tend to havan overabundance of gold anyway. Again, I'd use this for attack speed gain. Money isn't a problem so the only reason I'd use it in my offhand over Kundane or Belm is that one extra THAC0 bonus.

Same as before, available early on, extra attacks. There are plenty of weapons that would be better mainhand.

If you note, the weapons you asked about, they have an attack speed of zero, thus granting extra attacks, just like Kundane.

By the time you get Angurvadal (improved), your strength should be over 22. Maybe 24 or 25. A natural 22 if you're a half-orc.

Arbane's Short Sword is eh. You should be aiming for mages and priests first anyways.

Spectral Brand should be used in the mainhand as cold damage passes through to almost every baddie.

Rune Hammer should also be used in the mainhand.

Axe of Unyielding, as you said, mainhand. Good for Kensais due to the AC and Constitution bonus.

And you'd spend money for the Sword of Balduran? I consider THAT a waste.

Improved Mace of Disruption is used by archers for me as they can't really use the Amulet of Power.

Solusek · Post by **Solusek** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 1:51 pm

So every weapon with an attack speed of 0 grants an additional attack per round? Sick, didn't know that.

About Anguvardal: Strength above 22? I don't think so, unless you're evil aligned. If your not evil alignments the maximum you can get as a warrior type class, is 21. 18start, 19 tome, 20 Lum, 21 Deck, 22 if you're half-orc, as you said. So basically it is beneficial for every char, except evil ones and/or half-orcs. Also note that not everyone is playing with max. power-gaming stats.

Spectral-Brand: Ya, probably better main-hand, forgot to add that. But well, don't forget there are even better main-hands, so someone with scimitar proficiency might want to place it in his off-hand for the negative plane protection.

Arbane: Well, PW: Stun can be really, really, annoying

Runehammer: Well, same as Spectral Brand. Can be used for main-hand equally well. Nevertheless, it's a decent off-hand.

Sword of Balduran: Well, as you said, money is not really an issue, especially if you use pick pocket whenever it's possible. So I'm willing to pay some gold to add 10% magic resistance occasionally

When I said Kachiko's wasn't even worth the money for me, that was more of a rhethorical thing :> As I mentioned above, I wasn't aware of the 0 speed factor thing.

Btw. are you sure about the speed factor thing? That'd shed a whole new light on weapon choices for me

Edit: Just checked it. I've got 7/2 attacks per round using Scarlet Ninja-To, but only 5/2 using Usuno's Blade. Maybe you're using some kind of mod? Though I seem to remember you posting in another thread that you're playing absolutely mod free.

About the archer thing: As far as I know, rangers, including archers, actually can use the amulet of power. Meaning I'm pretty damn sure, since I have a savegame of an archer main character wearing it ^^

So long,
Sol

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 2:38 pm

Yep. That's how it works. It carries over to different forms too.

There's always the girdle too. I mean sure, you'd probably want to use the Inertial Barrier one instead but yeah, I still don't think it's that great. Only if you don't like warhammers, the girdle and can't buff yourself. XD

The tomes are only available in BG and half-orcs can't go there. I play with no mods.

Not if you're a druid.

Always made my saves. XD Or ran away and hid.

For a priest, should almost always be a main hand.

For magic resistance? Eh, only if you're a thief without UAI and can't hide... maybe a swashbuckler or any fighter type, a barbarian or ranger type. Otherwise you'd use Carsomyr.

I play with no mods. Hmm. I tried it with Yamato +4, as it also has the same attackspeed with my shapeshifter/fighter. Using one weapon he has three attacks per round. So using a normal weapon would set him to four, but instead it sets him to five as there's one extra attack and one offhand attack.

I thought they couldn't. Oh well. XD

Solusek · Post by **Solusek** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 9:44 pm

Well, maybe 0 speed factor weapons only add an extra attack when they're actually wielded in the off-hand? I really don't know, but as I said, I tried it with various 0 speed factor weapons, and they don't increase my attacks per round, like Scarlet Ninja-To or Kundane do for example.

Edit: I did some excessive testing, and I'm absolutely sure that speed factor 0 doesn't necessarily mean +1 attack per round.

Examples:
Wielding Belm or Scarlet Ninja-To ONLY => 7/2 attacks per round
Wielding Kachiko's Wakizashi or Usuno's Blade ONLY => 5/2 attacks per round
Dual-Wielding Belm AND Scarlet Ninja-To => 5 attacks per round(normally 11/2, but
unbuffed attacks per round are capped at 5)
Wielding Belm + Kachiko's => 9/2 attacks per round
Wielding Belm + Usuno's => 9/2 attacks per round
Wielding Usuno's + Kachiko's => 7/2 attacks per round.
Wielding Usuno's + Spectral Brand => 7/2 attacks per round
Wielding Spectral Brand + Kachiko's => 7/2 attacks per round
Wielding Spectral Brand + Scarlet Ninja-To => 9/2 attacks per round

Testing was done on a multi-class Fighter(18)/Thief(21). I'm pretty sure that I will gain another 1/2 attack per round later, so just add that to the results if you want to. Another interesting thing you'll notice at this point is that you can reach the unbuffed attacks per round cap with just one weapon that grants an additional attack per round. There is no benefit from dual-wielding two weapons that each give +1 attack per round at max. warrior level. A Blade might still benefit from it though, since his base attacks per round are lower.

So long,
Sol

Thrifalas · Post by **Thrifalas** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 5:45 am

I've never heard that weapon speed gave extra attacks per round, and thanks to Solusek's testing I still don't believe it. Afaik, weapon speed has something to do with when you get your attack in the round, ie good for rogues or something.

Angurvadal is awesome if you play a lot of characters. There's only one Fire Giant Girdle and one Crom Faeyr. Angur is especially good for Rogues, seeing how just a few points of damage is greatly multiplied in the hands of a cunning backstabber.

And how do you really end up with half attacks per round? 1 base, 1 for warrior 13, 1/2 for weap spec and 1/2 from BoS. I always gets 3 atks with 2hand and 4 with dualwield. :<

Solusek · Post by **Solusek** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 9:20 am

I think the Baldurdash Patch fixes the boots of speed so they only increase your movement speed. They were not intended to give any extra attacks in the first place. I'll get another 1/2 attack from the Gauntlets of extra-ordinary specializiation though. This way I can use Spectral Brand + Scarlet Ninja-To in ToB and still get 5 attacks per round unbuffed.

So long,
Sol

Sytze · Post by **Sytze** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 12:39 pm

Weapon speed does nothing for the number of attacks per round.

As for my list, pretty much starting with the best:
Definitely The Equalizer.
Defender of Easthaven.
Daystar.
Dak'kon's Zerth Blade.
Belm.
Crom Fayer.

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 3:38 pm

Then why does Kundane +2 grant an extra attack?

Solusek · Post by **Solusek** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 6:10 pm

Well, it's a special power the item has. Like Belm, except that it doesn't say "extra attack per round". I'm pretty sure though it is mentioned in the item description.

So long,
Sol

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 6:52 pm

It's not.

Solusek · Post by **Solusek** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 9:00 pm

You know what I mean by item description, do you? The text above the items stats. Where it says "Kundane, blah blah". Read all of it. And try to read between the lines as well

I mean, it IS called the Sword of Quickness, you know :>

Anyway, Kundane DOES give an additional attack per round. Other weapons with speed factor 0
DO NOT. Believe it or not

So long,
Sol