School massacre in Finland

[Kipi]

Not sure how many of you have already heard of this even though it has got rather wide attention other countries and even in US as well.

For those who hasn't heard of it, [url="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7084045.stm"]here[/url] is a link to an article from BBC about it.

Now, what makes me worried is that media has already found out that the guy responsible for the shooting did play FPS games, especially Battle Field 2, and was playing even couple of hours before the incident. And the media hasn't even tried to cover it, but has been spreading around as like they were trying to move some of the blame to gaming industry.

What do you think of this?

Oh, if someone really wants, I could translate couple of articles regarding this, but not going to do that before someone is actually interested in reading them...

[Loki[D.d.G]]

I just saw the news on CNN. Sadly another blow for games. Most people want to find someone to blame and most turn to things they do not understand. Such as the shooter and games. Neither can do anything to resist such blames and hostility.

Still, its really harrowing to know that a small handful are deluded enough to go around murdering innocents in cold blood.

And Kipi, sorry about your grandfather.

[Kipi]

I just saw the news on CNN. Sadly another blow for games. Most people want to find someone to blame and most turn to things they do not understand. Such as the shooter and games. Neither can do anything to resist such blames and hostility.

Yes, that's true. Especially when taking account that the guy has admitted in internet that he hasn't been taking his mental medicines in couple of days.

Still, its really harrowing to know that a small handful are deluded enough to go around murdering innocents in cold blood.

Yeah. And he did tell in those evidenceses and hints which he posted to internet that the victims are going to be randomly chosen, and he doesn't want that the shooting is considered as normal "school massacre" but instead as political terrorism. And that's what makes the whole incident sad, as 8 innocent people died just because one guy wanted to bring his political ideas to the public.

And Kipi, sorry about your grandfather.

Oh, thanks. Though it has been several months already...

[DesR85]

I just recently heard of this incident from Al-Jazeera English. Very sad. My condolences to those who were killed. As for the videogame link, I haven't come across that yet in the news. Where was this mentioned?

[Loki[D.d.G]]

Oh, thanks. Though it has been several months already...

Its never too late to offer ones condolences in my opinion.

And now with more senseless killing, there should be more of that to go around. Sympathy I mean.

[Kipi]

I just recently heard of this incident from Al-Jazeera English. Very sad. My condolences to those who were killed. As for the videogame link, I haven't come across that yet in the news. Where was this mentioned?

[url="http://www.iltalehti.fi/jokelantragedia/200711086823161_jt.shtml"]Here[/url] is one in Finnish, translate below:

One regular hobby for Pekka-Eric Auvinen was playing multiplayer games. He was especially interested in game called Battlefield 2, in which he logged in last time Wednesday morning moments before 9 o'clock.

From the player profile of Auvinen it's clear that he was managed rather well in the game. Inside the game hierarchy he was promoted to the "Master Sergeant" status.

Battlefield 2 is multiplayer wargame which is meant to be played in internet. The events of the game are basing on fictional conflicts around the world.

The sides which player can choose in the game are US marines, Freedom forces of China and imaginary Alliance of East

Battlefield 2 contains modern warmachinery, including airplanes, cars, boats, helicopters and armored vehicles

I'll dig up some more articles in a moment.

[Loki[D.d.G]]

Maybe more light would be shed on this matter later on when the big news networks get thier hands on new material.

Then we can all express our opinions, well informed this time.

[Kipi]

Oh, and [url="http://www.iltasanomat.fi/uutiset/kotimaa/uutinen.asp?id=1452863"]here[/url] is another good article, again in Finnish, translate bellow.

Parents should know better the contents of videogames

Parents should know better the contents of videogames than they do now, say professor Tony Manninen from Oulu

He says that parents usually doesn't have any clues what kinds of computergames their children plays. Parents also don't always respect the age recommendations of game

- Age recommendations exists just because the games contains content that may not suit for example people under 18. Many of the parents still believes that they can buy such game to their child because "our Ville" is so good and educated. Age recommendantions though doesn't think about the difficulty of the game but the content, says Manninen

The tragedy of Jokela has made many to think if the violent games had anything to do with the massacre. To the questioner Manninen reminds that after all games and playing shall stay as they have to this day.

- Instead of finding guilties it's more important to ask how we can chance games so that those can help people in despair and see the others around them. One can't think that game itself is good or evil. It's more important to think where the game is used and who, says game researcher.

In Northern game -conferense, which just started in Oulu, the tragedy of Jokela was told also to foreign participiants. After this the conference was begun with one minute of silent moment

And about the availability of information, there is tons of it. So far this is what is know about the backgrounds of the killer:

• He was politically radical. Even though his opinion and side changed almost weekly, it was always the most radical side
• He had stated that the massacre will be political terrorism act
• He wanted to get his name to some well known international list of most famous mass murderers
• He thought he was equal to god, and everyone not suited to his believes and visions of the world should die
• He used medicines for mental problems, but quited using those couple of days before the incident
• He wasn't one of those who like to hang out with others, but instead liked to be alone more

This is only short list, most of the things known sums up the ideology of his and hov he visioned the world.

[Moonbiter]

I was waiting for you to start one on this, Kip. The news was out all over the media here yesterday afternoon, and CNN picked up on it immediately. There's a lot of speculation going on right now, but here's what I've managed to pic up from the international news sources:

1. He was not a gun nut. He was a member of an ordinary shooting club with strict rules, and bought a light handgun when he was allowed by law and the the club to do so.
2. He was a good student.
3. He was a loner, but was not picked upon or abused by his classmates. In fact he had a pretty girlfriend who recently broke up with him, and a couple of close male friends.
4. He had no history of violence or erratic behaviour. The statements made about him not taking his meds is completely new to me, and the medias I read.
5. He was obviously inspired by Columbine and Virginia Tech. Already experts and police are calling him a "copycat" based on the evidence uncovered.
6. Misery loves Company. Though I am a staunch supporter of strict gun control, there is no way to prevent this thing from happening. Especially not when it's slowly turning into a sick "trend" based on input and hyperbole.

I must also add on a personal note that he must either have been one hell of a marksman, or had too much time on his hands. I would guess the latter. Killing someone with a .22 caliber "pea shooter" is almost impossible. One of his victims was shot 20 times, and he didn't manage to kill himself at once by shooting himself in the head, which should say something about the effectiveness of his weapon. Students waited for over two hours in their classrooms before they were evacuated. In comparison Virginia Tech was cleared after 26 minutes. We are simply not prepared for this kind of thing, as opposed to countries where it's "normal." I can't imagine what it must be like being a police officer on duty in a small burg in Finland and getting the message "Shots fired at the local school, people down." Up here where I live they would probably have to call the Ministry of Education for a pow-wow, then clear it with the "mothers against police in schools" and a federal judge who might give the police the "go" to arm themselves, before any action was taken. Even as I write this, so called "experts" are going at it in the media: "Naaaaahhhh, this can't happen here! We're a happy social-democratic country. Bad things happen to other people. Our kids are all happy-happy-joy-joy!"

My thoughts right now, jumbled as they are, go out to the relatives, the families, the shellshocked students and policemen, but also to our entire society up here. The world is getting smaller. Deal with it.

[Fiberfar]

This is very sad news indeed.

I've read that music has been blamed. Apparently, he listened to a band called Sturmgeist, played battlefield 2 (which, by Norwegian "newspaper" Dagbladet was called a "murder game") and reportedly posted on the 4chan forum that he would kill people at school an hour before going there. The last part is claimed to be a lie (someone else posted it after the episode took place).

In his Manifesto, he said that the actions he'd soon do was his own, and that nothing else was to blame. (I haven't read it, but this is what I've been told).

[Curry]

Pfft. Thousands of kids die every day around the world, why cry when a few Europeans get shot?

[Fiberfar]

Pfft. Thousands of kids die every day around the world, why cry when a few Europeans get shot?

You tell that to the families of those who got shot

[dragon wench]

Pfft. Thousands of kids die every day around the world, why cry when a few Europeans get shot?

I can't believe I just read this.. but it takes all kinds I suppose...

Yes, children all around the world do die every day. They die because they live in war torn nations, they die from hunger, they die from Aids because they were born with the virus.. The list goes on and on, and these are all equally tragic deaths. And, believe it or not, there are plenty of people who do care.... Many of whom devote their lives to trying to help. Médecins Sans Frontières is an organisation that springs to mind... or Unesco.. to name just two.

However, when a shooting occurs like this in a school it is horrifying because there is a direct will to kill. Those kids don't die by default, or political apathy, because of malnutrition... they die because somebody decides to kill them. This is very, very different.

[DesR85]

[url="http://www.iltalehti.fi/jokelantragedia/200711086823161_jt.shtml"]Here[/url] is one in Finnish, translate below:

One regular hobby for Pekka-Eric Auvinen was playing multiplayer games. He was especially interested in game called Battlefield 2, in which he logged in last time Wednesday morning moments before 9 o'clock.

From the player profile of Auvinen it's clear that he was managed rather well in the game. Inside the game hierarchy he was promoted to the "Master Sergeant" status.

Battlefield 2 is multiplayer wargame which is meant to be played in internet. The events of the game are basing on fictional conflicts around the world.

The sides which player can choose in the game are US marines, Freedom forces of China and imaginary Alliance of East

Battlefield 2 contains modern warmachinery, including airplanes, cars, boats, helicopters and armored vehicles

I see. Thanks for the info. I have yet to see the major news network jump on this, though. The last I've heard is that the cathedral is holding mass for the victims of the violence and the fact that the gun man is armed with 500 rounds and a .22 calibre gun.

Oh, and recently, [url="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7085329.stm"]BBC reported that the gun man left a suicide note before the incident[/url].

[imawindowlickr]

The indutry takes another bash, Huh.

Fingers are much too quick to be pointed. You can still buy The Catcher in the Rye without a warning sticker. I swear between music, movies and games you can get off scott free being a lousy parent. Parental unit involvement is at an all time low. Sad.

I think no matter how you look at the person, you can never answer the questions. You can always come up with more questions. Answers given are shortly recanted. Motives are questionable. Parenting questionable. Sadly nothing can be justified, nothing can be atoned for. I feel as bad for him as for his victims. I'm sure in some way he was a victim, not justifying him, you can always choose your place....where you stand. He made a poor choice. Another reminder that sometimes it takes tragedy to bring out the compassion and good on others.

[Loki[D.d.G]]

Pfft. Thousands of kids die every day around the world, why cry when a few Europeans get shot?

Yeah, we should mourn all those who die each day. From starvation or getting murdered in cold blood. None of them deserve to die, but for some, maybe dying at a young age is better, so they do not suffer for the rest of thier lives.

When someone walks into a room and takes the lives of perfectly happy people, that it truly horrible.

Still, if people want to blame the gaming industry, maybe they should also blame politics and TV for giving the individual his deluded ideas.

[Kipi]

I was waiting for you to start one on this, Kip.

Am I actually THAT predictable?? :speech:

He was not a gun nut. He was a member of an ordinary shooting club with strict rules, and bought a light handgun when he was allowed by law and the the club to do so.

Actually, that shooting club does have arguable reputation, as there has been other problematic members in close past.

Students waited for over two hours in their classrooms before they were evacuated. In comparison Virginia Tech was cleared after 26 minutes

I have to admit that I'm not that familiar about the Virgian Tech case, but there was several good reasons why the evacuation took so long. First one was that the school building itself has been described as total maze. Because of this, the police forces did have to move slowly. Also, police knew for sure that there is at least one shooter. They weren't sure if he was alone, and thus they used 1+1 tactic, which means that they suppose that there is at least one more shooter than what they know for sure. This tactic is used for minimizing casualties. Also, we must take in account that almost every class room was locked up, and polices had to search carefully each room and closet to be sure they haven't missed any victims, civilians or possible killer. Also, they didn't have at first much info how the killer looked like, so they had to be extra careful with everyone they met inside, because basically everybody could have been possible killer.

@Curry
So, you say we shouldn't mourn all those innocent lifes lost in this insane action of one person? So, in that case we shouldn't have mourned the victims of Konginkangas accident? Or the tsunami catastrophe? As Fibey already said, tell that to the families of victims...

[Loki[D.d.G]]

I have to admit that I'm not that familiar about the Virgian Tech case, but there was several good reasons why the evacuation took so long. First one was that the school building itself has been described as total maze.QUOTE]

It seems that the killer picked the "right" school. Very unfortunate. Maybe they will implement easier escape routes in schools in the near future to aviod instances such as these.

They weren't sure if he was alone, and thus they used 1+1 tactic, which means that they suppose that there is at least one more shooter than what they know for sure.

Still, indecision in matters like this should be avoided if at all possible. Though, maybe it was impossible in this case.

[Kipi]

It seems that the killer picked the "right" school. Very unfortunate. Maybe they will implement easier escape routes in schools in the near future to aviod instances such as these.

Actually, the killer was student of that school, so it wasn't selected randomly.

[Loki[D.d.G]]

Actually, the killer was student of that school, so it wasn't selected randomly.

I didn't mean to imply that it was a random choice. Its just that there are plenty of other schools he could have hit. Maybe he just bore a deeper grudge for his school, despite stating that it was political terrorism.