1.I decided to play this old good game once again.But this time I want to do in a really evil and wicked way.The party I want looks this way: Me as Barbarian/mage(neutral evil),Korgan,Viconia,Edwin and....Who else?Everybody else are too good for my party.Yoshimo is a good choice but he will leave me very quickly.And Imoen does not suit my style of playing.
2.Will the party be okay with all those wicked people?I know that there are certain situations in the game,when a party member can get in a fight with another one,or even leave the party,etc.That would not be appreciated.
P.S.I'm sorry my English is a little rusty.It's not my first language.
Evil style of play
I'm not sure about SoA, but the evil team worked fine in ToB. although cooperation from the masses goes down dramatically when you have an evil alignment - like an alignment is something you can smell. If you want an addition to your party, you can always drag along a chaotic neutral - they shouldn't care too much about your evil ways.
Well, you may use mods to add some evil characters. Your other options are starting a multiplayer with three pre-generated evil characters. Don't forget that if you continue in ToB, you may actually join Sarevok, who is Chaotic Evil.
One question - How are you going to make a barbarian/mage? ShadowKeeper? If so, better make a Barbarian/Thief dual-class...
Note: Don't forget that you actually have to play evil with an evil character in order to get the most rewards. Don't save the Druid Grove, poison it. Don't return the silver dragon eggs, trade them.
One question - How are you going to make a barbarian/mage? ShadowKeeper? If so, better make a Barbarian/Thief dual-class...
Note: Don't forget that you actually have to play evil with an evil character in order to get the most rewards. Don't save the Druid Grove, poison it. Don't return the silver dragon eggs, trade them.
How are you going to make a barbarian/mage?
Well,I played with a kensai/mage,and it worked well enough without Skeeper.I started as a Kensai class,then,at level 12,I dualled to a mage.
But I thought about it and came to a conclusion,that wearing elven chainmail,gaunlets etc. gives better bonuses,than standart kensai bonuses.And I read somewhere that this is a good choice,and one of the most powerful classes possible.Besides,it looks stylish to me - a person,deadly with both weapon and spells.
What about reputation penalties?I assume that playing an evil character will get my reputaion as low as possible.And I would not like to slaughter the whole city of Atkatla.
Is there any way out?
Well,I played with a kensai/mage,and it worked well enough without Skeeper.I started as a Kensai class,then,at level 12,I dualled to a mage.
But I thought about it and came to a conclusion,that wearing elven chainmail,gaunlets etc. gives better bonuses,than standart kensai bonuses.And I read somewhere that this is a good choice,and one of the most powerful classes possible.Besides,it looks stylish to me - a person,deadly with both weapon and spells.
What about reputation penalties?I assume that playing an evil character will get my reputaion as low as possible.And I would not like to slaughter the whole city of Atkatla.
Is there any way out?
What most rewards would that be? Because poisoning the grove is not very rewarding, when compared to saving it...Saros wrote: Note: Don't forget that you actually have to play evil with an evil character in order to get the most rewards. Don't save the Druid Grove, poison it. Don't return the silver dragon eggs, trade them.
The game itself does not offer many opportunities to play evil, altough more than BG1. (It would be hard to offer less than BG1) Still, when I get a fancy for an evildoing party from time to time, I'm always disappointed by the 'evil' npc's. It seems that, to the people who wrote dialogues, 'evil' was the same as 'rude and materialistic', as opposed to 'good' being 'selfless idealists'. Perhaps a game where you could become an intelligent and cunning villian would be too shocking for some people.
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The Pale Mansion : My e-published lovecraftian novella! You should totally check it out!
Yes,the rewards for quests done in an evil way are significantly worse than those granted for "good" players.It doesn't seem to be logical enough.Of course,I understand that being "good" is always "better" and more rewarding than being "evil",even in the real life.However,if the creators of the game thought the "evil people" to be "materialistic",then they should get more materialistic values from their adventures.But they don't.QuenGalad wrote:What most rewards would that be? Because poisoning the grove is not very rewarding, when compared to saving it...
The game itself does not offer many opportunities to play evil, altough more than BG1. (It would be hard to offer less than BG1) Still, when I get a fancy for an evildoing party from time to time, I'm always disappointed by the 'evil' npc's. It seems that, to the people who wrote dialogues, 'evil' was the same as 'rude and materialistic', as opposed to 'good' being 'selfless idealists'. Perhaps a game where you could become an intelligent and cunning villian would be too shocking for some people.
But gold is not a problem for experienced players,they can do without.
"Perhaps a game where you could become an intelligent and cunning villian would be too shocking for some people."
As for me,a game like this would be very interesting and stylish.I'm not an evil and cruel man by nature,but this kind of people fascinates me.
"It seems that, to the people who wrote dialogues, 'evil' was the same as 'rude and materialistic', as opposed to 'good' being 'selfless idealists'."
And if evil people are not "rude and materialistic",what sort of people are they?
Well, if you feel like a discussion on that topic, then I would say they are all sorts of people. Some of them are certainly charming and engaging, and they might not care about personal profit at all - which is a key point of all three evil BG2 npc's. They can be fiercely loyal, even more so sometimes than the 'good' people. As a matter of fact, it all depends on how we define 'evil', and that can take a lot of pages.
I believe we had a topic here, some time ago, on "what makes Korgan evil". It was most interesting, the general conclusion being Korgan is evil because it says so on his character chart.
Or take Viconia, for that matter - her 'evilness'
shows mostly trough the fact that she cuts in when you speak, says "that interests me as much as some ramblings of a beggar do" (or something similar) when you tell her something, and, generally, is rude. Period. Ok, maybe she tries to be good, but why she succeeds in everything save manners and is still listed as an 'evil' npc is beyond me.
A nice evil npc for BG would be, in my oppinion, someone very charismatic. A person who would, for example, manipulate the party leader (it could be done by not giving a refusing dialogue option, for instance) to take them into the group, and do things the PC might not, otherwise, do. Valen does something like that, and I like it a lot - if you run around with a vampire, you should cope with the consequences.
I believe we had a topic here, some time ago, on "what makes Korgan evil". It was most interesting, the general conclusion being Korgan is evil because it says so on his character chart.
Or take Viconia, for that matter - her 'evilness'
shows mostly trough the fact that she cuts in when you speak, says "that interests me as much as some ramblings of a beggar do" (or something similar) when you tell her something, and, generally, is rude. Period. Ok, maybe she tries to be good, but why she succeeds in everything save manners and is still listed as an 'evil' npc is beyond me.A nice evil npc for BG would be, in my oppinion, someone very charismatic. A person who would, for example, manipulate the party leader (it could be done by not giving a refusing dialogue option, for instance) to take them into the group, and do things the PC might not, otherwise, do. Valen does something like that, and I like it a lot - if you run around with a vampire, you should cope with the consequences.
Kitchen Witchcraft : Of Magic and Macaroni - a blog about, well, a witch in the kitchen.
The Pale Mansion : My e-published lovecraftian novella! You should totally check it out!
The Pale Mansion : My e-published lovecraftian novella! You should totally check it out!
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A series of really good posts. Personally, I'd add that your party is always faced with quests that reward you for defeating evil characters, be they comic book style undead menaces or backstabbing party members. This creates a tilted moral playing field from the start. Next to a guy who flays off the skin of people to make armor, Viconia's personality comes across as nothing more than shockingly rude. My, that's evil.
Korgan is even more of a dilemna, since he isn't even rude. He just comes across as crusty. There isn't anything he says or recalls in BG2 that justifies "evil" being attached to his portrait. (Does teasing Aerie count? Wow, that's evil!) But then, that's the dilemna, isn't it? You're a developer. You want to imitate Jagged Alliance's system that gave merc NPCs a degree of autonomy, even to killing one another, which proved very popular. But those were mercs, and in the game's context, it was agreed that some might have had very dicey pasts. You just didn't bother to provide much background. It wasn't necessary.
Bioware's BG2, however, prides itself on offering background. So you can't have genuinely evil characters in a party, given what you'd have to fill in about their pasts. What would parents say if they caught Jane or Johnny playing a game with a team that included a smalltime druglord and a priest kicked out for pedarasty? So you fudge it. You tell players that Viconia and Korgan are evil, because...they...are. Even while deliberately avoiding anything in background or conversation that might lead to that conclusion. And the younger players, at least, raised on the pre-adolescent fairytale morality of D&D, buy into it.
But it never really works. The Valen NPC mod comes closest IMO to providing a flavor of evil, because Valen takes over the group and chooses the few real evil options in party action when they are offered. This is not the evil of one's background, but the evil of current actions. It is evil, not as a wanted poster, but as one choice made after another. When such choices exist.
Korgan is even more of a dilemna, since he isn't even rude. He just comes across as crusty. There isn't anything he says or recalls in BG2 that justifies "evil" being attached to his portrait. (Does teasing Aerie count? Wow, that's evil!) But then, that's the dilemna, isn't it? You're a developer. You want to imitate Jagged Alliance's system that gave merc NPCs a degree of autonomy, even to killing one another, which proved very popular. But those were mercs, and in the game's context, it was agreed that some might have had very dicey pasts. You just didn't bother to provide much background. It wasn't necessary.
Bioware's BG2, however, prides itself on offering background. So you can't have genuinely evil characters in a party, given what you'd have to fill in about their pasts. What would parents say if they caught Jane or Johnny playing a game with a team that included a smalltime druglord and a priest kicked out for pedarasty? So you fudge it. You tell players that Viconia and Korgan are evil, because...they...are. Even while deliberately avoiding anything in background or conversation that might lead to that conclusion. And the younger players, at least, raised on the pre-adolescent fairytale morality of D&D, buy into it.
But it never really works. The Valen NPC mod comes closest IMO to providing a flavor of evil, because Valen takes over the group and chooses the few real evil options in party action when they are offered. This is not the evil of one's background, but the evil of current actions. It is evil, not as a wanted poster, but as one choice made after another. When such choices exist.
To the Righteous belong the fruits of violent victory. The rest of us will have to settle for warm friends, warm lovers, and a wink from a quietly supportive universe.
Well,as far as I remember, by poisoning the Druid Grove you afterwards receive two, instead of just one, Shields of Harmony. By trading the silver dragon eggs, you are given a nice halberd, probably one of the best there is in the game. Not to mention the fact that this way you HAVE to kill Adalon, thus earning another great item for your evil oriented party - the Human Flesh armor.
In Hell, there are two items that may be obtained since your whole party is evil - those are Blackrazor and the Nymph Cloak. Although there is a cheesy way to obtain BR even with a good character without changing alignment...
Plus, I don't see why you're worried about killing Amnih Guards. Kill'em all! They have some rare scrolls that are seldom or even NEVER given to you until ToB. Those are Spell Trigger, Spell Shield, Mordenkainen's Sword, Incendiary Cloud, ADHW, Summon Hakeashar, Pierce Shield, Project Image and Spell Trap. Most of these are available, but not until chapter 5 and 6(which is IMHO too late), and you cannot rely on getting more than one copy(and you'll certainly want 2 of each, because you have 2 mages). Also, sometimes the guard patrols drop an Arrow of Detonation, a great missile indeed. I'd say kill Amnish guards till you reach SoA xp cap, not because of the xp, but rather because of the scrolls and AoD you're gonna get.
In Hell, there are two items that may be obtained since your whole party is evil - those are Blackrazor and the Nymph Cloak. Although there is a cheesy way to obtain BR even with a good character without changing alignment...
Plus, I don't see why you're worried about killing Amnih Guards. Kill'em all! They have some rare scrolls that are seldom or even NEVER given to you until ToB. Those are Spell Trigger, Spell Shield, Mordenkainen's Sword, Incendiary Cloud, ADHW, Summon Hakeashar, Pierce Shield, Project Image and Spell Trap. Most of these are available, but not until chapter 5 and 6(which is IMHO too late), and you cannot rely on getting more than one copy(and you'll certainly want 2 of each, because you have 2 mages). Also, sometimes the guard patrols drop an Arrow of Detonation, a great missile indeed. I'd say kill Amnish guards till you reach SoA xp cap, not because of the xp, but rather because of the scrolls and AoD you're gonna get.
The whole thing with "good" and "evil",it is a much more complicated matter.I think that the problem is that many characters in the game are posed as an example of an "absolute" evil and good,which don't exist in the real word.A person cannot be evil just because it is evil nature.In my opinion,there is always a reason to being evil,which you cannot say about good people.
Take the drow race,for an instance.Why are they evil?It is their nature,the authors of the game say.
There are no "evil" animals just as there are no "good" animals.A wolf is not evil just because it kills innocent prey.All those things about evil and good is a pure product of the humanity,it all depends on the definitions and opinions.It's all comparative.
And those NPCs in the game,though all of them have detailed personalities(BG is one of the best games in this way),they are not described good enough to understand,why are they evil.
The Human Flesh Armor did not impress me at all.In my opinion,there are much better examples of armor in the world.
As for the halberd,it's not much stronger than the Wave halberd.
Take the drow race,for an instance.Why are they evil?It is their nature,the authors of the game say.
There are no "evil" animals just as there are no "good" animals.A wolf is not evil just because it kills innocent prey.All those things about evil and good is a pure product of the humanity,it all depends on the definitions and opinions.It's all comparative.
And those NPCs in the game,though all of them have detailed personalities(BG is one of the best games in this way),they are not described good enough to understand,why are they evil.
The Human Flesh Armor did not impress me at all.In my opinion,there are much better examples of armor in the world.
As for the halberd,it's not much stronger than the Wave halberd.