Dillema of a Thief

[Kokopelli]

Hello everyone, I have been lurking in these forums for a good couple of years now, mainly leeching off all the ideas most of you threw around

I finished the game a couple of times, with a sorcerer, kensai dualed to mage(I didn't enjoy this at all, too cheesy) and a paladin.

I wanted to start a rogue now, and as I haven't played the game with any mod up to this point(well, after the first run I did use Dungeon be gone, I hate Irenicus' place)

So now I installed the fixpack, ascension(not with the harder battles), unfinished business, item upgrade(mainly for making the Celestial fury useful- I love that weapon and it's quite annoying there isn't a +5 katana throughout the game). The extended rogue fort and the rogue rebalancing mod.

My main issue is that I want a versatile thief, backstabbing is neat but the tactic of Bstabbing, drink invisibility- rinse and repeat seems annoying.
And on their own their combat prowess aren't that grand from what I gathered.

So I thought of maybe going for a multiclass... but I am having trouble deciding which.
Thief/mage or Fighter/thief

both mage and fighter can enhance the capabilities in combat... but magic seems more versatile. I am not sure how quickly I will get hold of any spells that I would find useful though. Naturally I am not after Horrid Wilting or anything like that... but Tenser's transformation sounds like a good tactic.

On the other hand the fighter boosts both thac0 and HP when compared to the thief/mage. And a deal more proficiencies.

I prefer to play legit. Yes, I am known to be the occasional power munchkin but I won't be taking two rings knagxx or editing the heck out of my character. I want a character which is powerful and fun. Part of the fun, for me at least, is to play a character which is dominant in the party- not a second hand fighter/mage. Heck, I'm a Baalspawn, I want to feel that way
I just don't want it to be way over the top- the Kensai/mage was a tad much and I ended up not enjoying the game too much

I am not ruling out dual-classing so if you have suggestions, fire at will. I don't want the F/M/T because that's stretching things too much for me.
I am also not ruling out a single class thief like the assassin.

Fire at will people,
thanks in advance

[kmonster]

Multiclassing with fighter levels will let you deal out far more damage in combat while multiclassing with mage will make your thief invulnerable. (If you played with Jan in the party you'll know what to expect, just subtract 1 spell/level if you aren't an illusionist.)

The most powerful choice is taking both. A f/m/t will get all fighter and thief advantages and the mage spells to become invulnerable.
Multiclassing with mage levels will always allow to make a character invulnerable, the mage class will always dominate the others.

[Dummy]

im not too sure if its the strongest method,

imho the arcane mage / thief is FAR more powerful when you get a certain level

the fighters "only" advantages are, that he has
1. better armor
2. better thaco/hp
3. could use better weapons

okay here my conclusen why the mage could/should be stronger

1. better armor -> use spells like spirit armor, you will get AC 1 instead of highend AC -2 where you could not use your thief skills, the enchanted elven chain +5 is AC 1 anyway, so CHECK mage as strong as fighter

2. Better thaco, if you wanted to use Tenser anyway this is just a double check and if you want to go cheese you could cast multible tensers so this is more than a check

3. could use better weapons, with the use of a thief this is untrue cause uai anway but additionally you could not backstab with a cromsyr/staff of ram without a mod if im not mistaken

so i would say
the MAGE / Thief is stronger than the FIGHTER / Thief

the problem with Fighter / Thief / Mage, you will not get an sufficient level with every class, you will lack HLAs and on top of that your mage will lack a lot of spellslots

so
Unbuffed the Fighter comb would maybe be stronger but if you micro the mage a bit and with the right spells the pen is stronger than the sword

[Rav]

The Fighter Thief is comfortable up in front, where I somehow feel the protagonist belongs (I too will not be happy if my chracacter is overshadowed by an NPC). The weapon specialization and standard extra attacs are nice, and in TOB having an improved haste 7 attacks per round in combo with the assassination power is NICE, and something the Mage Thief has a harder time doing (because getting that many attacks without fighter levels is only possible with non-thief weapons, ie. no backstab multiplier).

Now, the mage thief can be tinkered with during the game, ie. "what's coming up next? I'll use my blah blah blah then.". But the fighter/thief can do that too with scrolls after the first HLA! Of course, the mage thief can do it many times, and the fighter thief only a few times, but I would get tired of constantly buffing to fight a few weak opponents.

But I am biased against micromanaging. I actually find backstabbing too much work

[Kokopelli]

well I think I will go with a Fighter/thief. Buffing tons of spells every-time is kind of a drag for me- sure, I can do it every now and then before really tough battles, but not all the time. And it'll be a decent while before I reach lv 6 spells...


any other ideas?
thanks

[kmonster]

Another idea is a berserker 7 or 9/thief. Compared to a pure thief you get many extra HP, an extra attack per round, +2 to hit and +4 to damage because of specialization and can use the berserker rage.

[Pellinore]

I ran an evil fighter/thief (until my pc crashed) and he got to be really sick. Very powerful with the backstabbing which was fun for a while but in time I didn't need much help aside from a bit of spell support. There were a few cases where by backstab didn't work and I got a bit worried...You will enjoy it...

[VonDondu]

We posted lots of ideas for a similar character in a recent message thread:

http://www.gamebanshee.com/forums/baldu ... 94266.html

[Kokopelli]

After reading the suggested link I decided to investigate the Fighter/mage/thief a bit more closely. I don't mind not casting lv 9 spells, sure, they are neat and all- but I am going to rely on spells to augment the melee prowess of the character anyways-something which other spells of lesser levels do very well.

From the point of view of SoA+ToB= am I losing much by spreading my XP so thin over three classes?

Am I missing much when it comes to thief skill-point allocation/fighter thaco and number of attacks?

Also, in order to make it out alright I should have a smaller party? actually this notion doesn't really bother me, I actually find this to be an interesting option. I never thought about it.

so a couple more questions besides the one I gave:
1- can an Elf or Half elf be a F/M/T? I am not near a pc in which I can run the game to check so.... I would be glad to know. I don't like playing "short" races not half-orcs... I am not a racist! hehe, just a matter of what looks cool, yes I am shallow...

2- which party members would fit in well with such a character?

3- How does the game decide which stronghold you'll get? I really want to use the rogue re-balancing mode so... does the multiple strongholds mod works with it? and must it be installed before or after the Rogue rebalancing mode? (again, not in a place I can check at... don't answer if it's too much trouble, it's quite understandable)

This simply strikes me as a far more interesting character than anything I played before- all of my characters were kind of streight and to the point... here I have tons of options and it sounds really nice.

As always thanks for all of your help, I really do appreciate all the advices you are all handing so willingly

[Kokopelli]

I figured out the answer in regards to the race and the mod. It's in the BG tweakpack which should be installed AFTER the rogue rebalancing... so that's good. And an Elf can be a FMT

I would still apprecdiate answers to all the other questions, mainly how much is there to lose-abilitywise from choosing this multiclass and if I should minimize the amount of NPC's in my party to 4 or below. And who would be best suited for a neutral-good party.
Ah and lastly- Neutral good characters are considered neutral or good? for example, will they be wearing the robe of the good Archmagi or Neutral?
Most of the good items I saw for thieves target the neutral range and I want to see if I must be Lawful Neutral or if I can be Neutral good.

Thanks in advance.

[aVENGER_[RR]]

How does the game decide which stronghold you'll get? I really want to use the rogue re-balancing mode so... does the multiple strongholds mod works with it? and must it be installed before or after the Rogue rebalancing mode?

For a multi-classed character, you get to pick which stronghold you want. Once you choose one, the others become unavailable. Since Rogue Rebalancing doesn't alter the Thief stronghold in any way it should be fully compatible with the Multiple Strongholds component of BG2 Tweaks. Perhaps you were thinking about Blucher's Expanded Thief Stronghold mod?

Ah and lastly- Neutral good characters are considered neutral or good? for example, will they be wearing the robe of the good Archmagi or Neutral?

Neutral Good characters are treated as good-aligned for the purpose of wearing/wielding items which have alignment restrictions.

Most of the good items I saw for thieves target the neutral range and I want to see if I must be Lawful Neutral or if I can be Neutral good.

True, certain items which are introduced by Rogue Rebalancing have alignment restrictions which prohibit good-aligned characters from using them. However, in case you choose to be neutral-aligned, note that Rogue Rebalancing also adds a Robe of the Neutral Archmagi to the game. Furthermore, being neutral-aligned could justify siding with Bodhi a bit more easily in case you want to try out the "Shadow Thief Improvements" component of RR.

[kmonster]

Non-caster gain hardly anything after level 13 except HLAs which a triple class characters gets as fast. Early in the game the difference to double classes will be minimal (at 750,000 you can have a 9/10/11 F/M/T or a 9/11 F/T for example) and later you'll have anything you want from a fighter or thief anyway.
There's no need for a smaller party.

An interesting party for F/M/T would be F/M/T, Edwin, Korgan and Viconia.

[Kokopelli]

Anyone has any idea if the extended thief stronghold works alright with all the strongholds mod?