To cheat or not to cheat, that is my question.

[vitosqueo]

Do you think the game is better with cheats or without cheats? With cheats there's less hassles more play but I feel like I’m cutting my self short and not getting the real challenge of the game. What do you think?

[anarchistica]

How do you define cheating?

Using Ease-Of-Use mod things like Infinite Stacking? Installing TOB so you can go above 2.950.000 XP in SoA? Using CLUAConsole to import items you somehow managed to not pick up or get? Enabling Group Infravision? Playing on Normal difficulty instead of Core rules? Setting the difficulty to Normal before scribing 6600 GP Level 9 scrolls? Using Cernd's True Werewolf powers more often than you could without constantly resting? Putting those ++'s Valygar has in "Spear" in a useful weapon? Teleporting huge distances or in annoying to navigate areas (Amkethran, Temple District)? Using a Simulacrum to cast rare scrolls? Beating Demi-Liches in cheesy ways (Protection from Undead, Enrage)? Being nice to dragons/Demogorgon so you can arrange your fighters around them before attacking? Using Spike Traps on Irenicus, Demogorgon, Dragons, etc?

I do all these things and more. It's a roleplaying game, not some inventory management simulator or a tv-program you have no control over. Any challenge should come from riddles, traps, opposing forces or whatever in the game, not from having limited storage space, the "lies" of the makers (see Greater Werewolf) or forgetting to pick something up.

[shift244]

Depending on exactly what you want out of the game. BECAUSE it is an RPG, CLUA-ing missed items in IS cheating, unless of course the item is required for the plot to proceed and you've somehow misplaced it. In which case, it is still cheating, but only with a slight bit of a sliver's worth of justification that the plot cannot proceed otherwise. Any other non-plot-essential that makes things easier that are missed are not must haves.

Using traps is hardly cheating, as long as you lure the creature into them.

Installing ToB is hardly cheating although it does make SoA encounters easier.

BUT. In the end, it's how you really want to play it and what you feel is justifiable for you. As with anarchistica, half the things listed, I would consider cheating and totally not in line with RPG (unless you define RPG to mean simply being able to level up characters as you like). A mere disagreement on point of view, nothing more.

If you've gone through the game already, there's hardly any reason not to proceed with what you feel like doing. It's only the first run through that it is generally suggested over the boards that you play it as it is to enjoy it as it meant to be. You can still proceed to cheat if you really want, if that's how you enjoy the game.

[sparky_kat]

in my opinion, one should ALWAYS at least play the game, in its entirety, at least once (or twice) without cheats. you can get the feel of how the game SHOULD be played that way, then from there..... you can then decide if and what kind of cheats or mods that you would want to use.

[wise grimwald]

[quote="anarchistica"]How do you define cheating?
Playing on Normal difficulty instead of Core rules?
There was me thinking that the normal way of playing the game was with normal difficulty. Still, you live and learn. When I'm as familiar with this game as I am with BG1, no doubt I'll play it with higher difficulty like I did with that game, but it did come as a surprise to find that I had been cheating.

[mcgregor]

I agree, there's a difference between 'cheating' and setting the difficulty to one where you are good enough to win.

More to the point, I would say don't cheat. Once I played the game once, I did 'cheat' for convenience - ctrl-J being my most frequently used one. But if the game is so difficult that it practically requires cheating to win (Ascention final battle comes to mind) then what's the point? To me, the game is a great story, one of the most involved plots I've come across (Fallout 1&2 are the only ones that compare to me) - it's not meant to be so hard it is not beatable.

Though I am completely in awe of the people who can beat ascention with their hands tied behind their backs, and realize they have just taken my love of the game a step further.

mcgregor

[BlueSky]

I agree with what everybody has said so far.....
The question you need to ask yourself is... cheating or cheesy tactics
and can you live with the choice..
I'm as guilty as the next guy, I've played so many times, that I really couldn't say how many times I've either used a shady tactic or a cheat, or for that matter, games I've played through not using those options...
on another note after finally getting around to reading the Icewind Dale trilogy, I am planning on another re-install of the BG series, now the question is tutu or not and which mods this time....:laugh:
guess I'll go through the old threads and then decide...

[Sanguin]

Cheat only if it's inevitable, imho. Otherwise it's just too easy
I mean, most of the quests can be completed without much trouble. E.g. if you cheat in order to kill Firkraag at level 6 then you are ruining the game for yourself, imho. It's much more fun to come back for him after you've grown up for the challenge - with all the hatred caused by past humiliation and the suppressed anger in your heart... The victory is so much sweeter that way >

(god I love RPGs )

[Celacena]

I don't console in items and almost never amended NPCs using shadowkeeper. however, some 'exploits' can feel against the spirit of the game.

spike traps? I rather like them, but pretending to dual class a thief to get them back without resting - that's naughty.

[kkzxx]

You'd better not cheat play at first time, to achieve the interesting from explore this game. After that, just can do it if you want, I think it can also provide different pleasure with cheat.

remember: you play games, not games play you!

[C-K'R[PhoEniX]]

Are you having difficulties beating a certain enemy or a part of the chapter? Or is it that your party is too weak for any enemy around your level? A riddle, a quest you cannot get past?

My doctrine is never to cheat. When I was a kid, I used to do it all the time and I thought it was fun. No wonder games bored me all too soon.

So to add my suggestion on the non-cheat pile that has been accumulating in this thread -- do not do it. Whether it's only a simple read through a part of a walkthrough or devious hacking to get the best items etc., is irrelevant. All that is allowed by the game (mostly the stuff anarchistica has suggested), using the "holes" in the structure of the game, would be considered a form of powerplaying, not cheating, so that is allowed. Though still not recommended if you want to experience the most out of the game.

[Piglet]

Nyeh

I have only ever used CLUA when nalia got nailed by hoods in corronet and i wanted flail from D'Alise _ all the xp and goods.
If you ignor nalia when 1st entering corronet and then do slaver
she will surely die.
Be warned.

Am playing again now in '08 for the fun of huge res. 1280
And because BG2 is the best game in the world. my 4th time round as cleric.
[tho i have played halo1 10 times through on pc.. but thats FPS.]
Gort the redeemer. [atm -3, flail of ages, fortress shield-3, Boots of avoidance.
plus other stuff, part of 'gang of 4' that backup 2 in melee.Minsc and Mazy.
Way better than minsc and Keldorn. To me,
[This seems the best tactical structure in this game. Minsc and Mazy the tanks,
Me, Jaheira, Aerie and Yoshy as fire support with me and Jaheira in front row of
said support to swap weaps and do melee. Me at -3 with flail of ages
and her at -4 with belm]

Am playing now. And have only done City/umar/druid and trademeet.
Minsc is hellacious at -6 with buffs, shield of reflection, oil of speed and
boots of speed on top with girdle of strength & daystar sword.
He cuts a path. as does Boo.
BUTT KICKING FOR GOODNESS [squeel]

You and Boo and I.. all heroes.

Aside from the use of CLUA to get nalia back. Cheating codes seem pointless.
The first time i played BG 1 and 2 i didnt even know you could cheat.
And i completed both with ToSc and ToB.
If i can frag them all in a fury of swords and magic.. so can you. just try different tactics..
Sometimes running away is best, sometimes ASSAULT
experiment. And use the most powerfull tool of all.
spawning.

Never seen need to cheat. Or had the worldview that allows it.
all can be overcome by a wily mind.
USE spawn creatures. elementals are tops. skellies ok and summon2 and 3 ok for a short while.
Summon cacofiend is a nice one.. but HIDE. lol i learnt that one well.
A combined sword and missile assault usually gets the job done tho.
Minsc and Mazy working side by side [both -6 at this point. b4 go off to the drow levels]
with 4 magic/missile users cuts a way big path through the EVIL.
But a screen of spawns is nice.
I consider myself blessed that its been more than 2 years since i played BG2 last,
I cant quite remember what will happen next..I remember snippets of battles with mind flayers..
But all else is lost in fog of EVIL.
There is no easy path. ALL paths require EFFORT of mind. If u are lazy.. play pokemon.

Piglet..

PS.. This is a great site. Been using it to find all the quests i am to impatient to find myself.
Never much chop talking to npc's. they remind me the people i run into on the street.
Thus i tend to run past them...Easy when front man is Minsc with speed boots and all follow.

[Nightmare]

I generally only use CLUA Console to edit things when quests go wrong (mostly the Jaheira romance, which, despite all the patches, can still get bugged). Shadowkeeper is also a useful tool, one that I use mostly at the beginnings of games to change some NPCs (changing Jaheira from a Fighter/Druid to a Ranger/Cleric, juggling Minsc's proficiencies).

You can also "cheat" during battle by using cheese, which are tactics that abuse the game engine. Not strictly cheating, but usually considered exploiting the game instead.

Frankly, the game isn't horribly hard except for a few encounters, so cheating is unnecessary and will likely make the game less entertaining by making battles too easy. But, to each their own.

[Piglet]

I generally only use CLUA Console to edit things when quests go wrong (mostly the Jaheira romance, which, despite all the patches, can still get bugged). Shadowkeeper is also a useful tool, one that I use mostly at the beginnings of games to change some NPCs (changing Jaheira from a Fighter/Druid to a Ranger/Cleric, juggling Minsc's proficiencies).

Thats modding, not cheating

You can also "cheat" during battle by using cheese, which are tactics that abuse the game
engine. Not strictly cheating, but usually considered exploiting the game instead.

Thats as grognards say..'gamey' Using the inherent weaknesses in the game system to win. A quite serious point in say PBEM games that last a year.
example : being gamey in HPS's 'Kursk' when after 100 turns the german finds out he russkies have been 'gamey' with AT units. lol . I remember that one well ,the guy went off his nut on that forum.

Frankly, the game isn't horribly hard except for a few encounters, so cheating is unnecessary and will likely make the game less entertaining by making battles too easy. But, to each their own.

Agree
someone once asked me why i play games..
"They offer an interesting sequence of challenges."

We are coddled. Most days the greatest challenge is deciding what to have for breakfast.
Or deciding if hitting on Judy in PR will result in a night or 10 of hot sex.
[god her LEGS]

Cheating removes the challenge part.. and thus interest.. [but those legs piglet oooooh]

[wise grimwald]

I personally wouldn't use the CLUA console, though as others rightly say, it's your game. I must admit however that I am quite shameless about exploiting the game engine. What I try to do is only use those exploits that I have discovered for myself such as the attribute wraparound bug, if bug it is.
A problem that I have is not knowing whether unusual occurences are weaknesses in the game engine, or something done deliberately by the programmers.

[shift244]

No offence, just my opinion...

Things like the attribute wraparound I would consider bugs and using it is under cheating in my book. The item is purposefully designed with an attribute draining property to limit it's use. The effect on the characters are real. Abuse the item, use it too many times and you will die! Other Magics can allow you cheat death in a way, but you will be relying on those magics for your very life.

Starting a SoA mage and CLUA a book of INT so you can raise your Int from 18 to 19, or a book of CON so that you can raise your poor 8 to 9 is not (since a character coming from BG1 should have been able to obtain these legally).

[wise grimwald]

I take your point and agree in part.
I discovered this aspect of the game by accident as I suspect most others did. I was wearing a charisma boosting ring and the staff had no impact at all until I took off the ring and discovered that my charisma had actually gone up! Now I just wear the ring, nymphs cloak, and other charisma boosting items and let my charisma go wherever it goes. The ring and staff just cancel each other out. I don't think that should be considered cheating, though if you used it intentionally to boost the charisma of your party to 25, it probably would be cheating.

[shift244]

Yea... if a character of mine did bumble into such a bug I would've left it anyway. Cheating requires intent to me. Can't really blame a person if it's unintentional.

[GawainBS]

I use the EnableCheatKeys and then Ctrl-J to quickly teleport around the city. I do this in every Infinity Engine game, though. I do not consider this cheating, since I don't circumvent any challenge.

[Thrifalas]

All that is allowed by the game (mostly the stuff anarchistica has suggested), using the "holes" in the structure of the game, would be considered a form of powerplaying, not cheating, so that is allowed. Though still not recommended if you want to experience the most out of the game.

While that might be true for most games, BG2 is kinda different. This game has exploits to no end, and some of them makes the game WAY too easy.

One example would be having clones use scrolls and items. Having endless Protection from Magi-scrolls means no caster will be ever to touch you, no matter how strong he is. Having endless of those rods you get from the Unseeing Eye quest means all your enemies will have a 90% damage taken that bypasses magical resistance.

Then there's the trap exploit, the almost-talk-to-avoid-going-hostile-exploit, duplicating Gaxx ring exploit, Triggering a spell many times, dispelling werewolf claws, the list goes on...

Personally, I feel that importing items that you missed or adjusting stats/classes for characters are less cheaty than taking full advantage of the exploits in the game.