Quality RPG test

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 4:19 am

A reviewer in my monthly gaming magazine (PC Gameplay, for those few who might know it.) talked about the "Quality RPG test", this being the fact that during the night NPC's do different things than during the day. If this isn't the case, it isn't a quality RPG. For your information: He was talking about Hard to be a God, and it failed the test.

Now, my question: Can you remember RPG's that met this criterium, but still plain sucked, or viceversa, that failed this criterium but are great games nonetheless?

For me, Titan Quest springs to mind: during the night, NPC's did the same things, but it's an awesome game.

AvatarOfLight · Post by **AvatarOfLight** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 4:36 am

Titan Quest arguably isn't an RPG. It's an action game foremost. That being said, I care little for this silly person's quality test. The Elder Scrolls and Gothic series aren't great because NPC's have a day/night cycle. It's just a semi requirement for good game design: If you include night, it must affect something as this can break/support immersion. That's a lot of work for every NPC, so an alternative is just not include night. It can still be a great game.

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 4:44 am

Titan Quest is an RPG for purpose of this thread, ok? As is Diablo or Dungeon Siege. You get the point.

I wouldn't call this reviewer silly, he has a rather good grasp on what makes or brakes a game. I do agree with you, though, that it is a rather small and insignificant criterium.

DesR85 · Post by **DesR85** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 5:30 am

Fable might fall into this criteria, I think. While there is realistic NPC behaviour such as guards lighting up the streets, shops closed and civilians all in their houses or hanging at the local bar, the game itself is just okay. I like it, mind you, but it feels kind of lacking and simplistic in one way or the other.

And if you don't mind me going way off course, I can include the GTA series. Good game, yet the NPCs there lack night/day sensitivity. You still see people with office clothing (or pretty much any clothing) waltzing around the streets be it morning, evening, night and even midnight.

Hope I'm on topic.

swcarter · Post by **swcarter** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 6:00 am

Two Worlds had day/night cycles for its NPCs, and it didn't review very well. This seems like a dopey/arbitrary test to me.

SWC

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 10:40 am

The instant I read this "test", my inner "critic-bell" rang. But since I haven't played EVERY RPG in existance, I decided to share it with you.

kmonster · Post by **kmonster** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 9:04 pm

This "Quality RPG test" is ridiculous. Usually it's rather an annoyance than a feature if you get to a shop at the wrong daytime and have to waste time until it's open.
More realism doesn't mean better game, I'm glad that some "realistic" features (like having to feed your characters manually like in Eye of the Beholder) aren't in newer games anymore.

A great rpg which didn't meet the "Quality RPG test" criterium is Planescape:Torment, all other IE games don't meet it too, most shopkeepers are always awake 24 hours/day selling their stuff and you can visit NPCs at night- and daytime.

Ronan · Post by **Ronan** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 5:58 am

This test only gives a hint if the game is detailed and in my opinion can only be aplied to new games. Also hack'n slash games like TItan Quest should be left out of it. In the end this just shows is the game has any details.

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 6:00 am

Why should H&S games be left out? It's details such as this that make them stand out from the blandness. TQ gave you the feeling the world was very much alive, which is a relief after DII.

Tricky · Post by **Tricky** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 9:17 am

Can The Sims be an RPG for the purpose of this test also?

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 9:18 am

To be honest, it would be harder NOT to qualify it as an RPG than to qualify it.

DesR85 · Post by **DesR85** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 10:02 am

GawainBS wrote:To be honest, it would be harder NOT to qualify it as an RPG than to qualify it.

Since the Sims is qualified as an RPG, can either Flight Simulator or even MechWarrior be included as well?

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 10:05 am

Those are simulations. You aren't playing/directing the character's decisions. On a side note: Mechwarrior has a lot of underlying gameplay that's comparable to an RPG. Just replace "C-Bills" with XP...

Tricky · Post by **Tricky** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 10:48 am

DesR85 wrote:Since the Sims is qualified as an RPG, can either Flight Simulator or even MechWarrior be included as well?

Got served there.

And as you probably figured, I never played the Sims.

DesR85 · Post by **DesR85** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 7:45 pm

GawainBS wrote:Those are simulations. You aren't playing/directing the character's decisions. On a side note: Mechwarrior has a lot of underlying gameplay that's comparable to an RPG. Just replace "C-Bills" with XP...

I know that. I was only joking.

Ronan · Post by **Ronan** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:21 am

GawainBS wrote:Why should H&S games be left out? It's details such as this that make them stand out from the blandness. TQ gave you the feeling the world was very much alive, which is a relief after DII.

Well H&S games have so much less detail than other RPGs and therefore should not be graded so harshly. I at least don't pay much attentio to details in H&S games and pretty much don't care if the NPCs have different rutines during night than during the day, but in other RPGs it's good to have.

Argosy · Post by **Argosy** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 11:24 am

That is horribly shallow and generalized, even for mass-market media

It's only basis in reality would be that games that implement features that serve little purpose are generally poorly concieved or unfinished.

Domi_Ash · Post by **Domi_Ash** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 11:58 am

Baldur's Gate 1 and 2, IWD series, KOTOR, NWN2 and JE - all of these games do not have mass exodus of the NPCs to their beds at the nightfall, but they are pretty good games in my books.

RPG is just a label. I really don't even pay attention to what they called a game. Instead I ask the following questions: Is the protagonist completely PC-created and not limited to a male? Is there a good party system? Are there numerous companions with good dialogue? Is there a central story in the game that is pretty good? Is the setting interesting? Is the game addressed to grown-ups? Is the graphics passable?

And I will waver one way or another a bit on all the categories but the first (I am completely unattracted to the pre-def protagonists) and select a game I'd like to try out based on the responces I recieve to this question (directly or by reading the reviews).

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 3:38 pm

Domi, since you're so intense about female protagonists, have you ever tried Kult - Heretic Kingdoms?

Domi_Ash · Post by **Domi_Ash** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 7:18 am

I've never heard of it before, but I will look up the information. On the first glance it looks like a game with a pre-defined protagonist, who seems to be in the same category as Lara Croft as a 'female' protagonist (the artwork on the game's page is really off-putting, showing a giant babe in the chain-mail bikini). Can't find any info on the party and banter. And I have no idea what isometric is?

EDIT: Okay, isometric is like BG, which is fine.

EDIT: I think it allows you to name your protagonist differently, and it's as far as the customization of the protagonist goes.

I think, I'd have given this one a shot for sure if it had a party. The atheism as a central theme is appealing, but I just don't know if I am interested to play without companions. I will keep this one in mind though, and ask for more reviews. I presume you can download it from the site?