If this information I am asking for is written down somewhere else, I would be happy to read it there if linked/directed to it. However, in my browsing of this site and the first several pages of the forums, I have not seen it, and therefore feel inclined to ask these questions.
I played KOTOR a while ago, and decided to play through it again. However, instead of just playing through the game, I’d like to be able to build as powerful a character as I can, and I’d really like to be up front fighting with a lightsaber as my primary weapon, rather than just casting force abilities (although a deadly combination of the two would be just as fun).
I can figure out most of the stuff for myself, but I was a bit confused about some of the mechanics. The three questions I have are on the mechanics of some of the different melee abilities:
1) Flurry and Knight/Master Speed: do these always base their damage/attack on the main-hand weapon, or are they based off the off-hand as well? If it is based on both, is it random, or is it based off a set pattern?
2) Do abilities such as critical strike, sneak attack, and power attack buff the off-hand, the second-hit of a 2-hand weapon, and/or any extra attacks gained? (i.e. if I have master speed and am dual-wielding, and use critical strike, how many of my attacks would have the 17-20 roll vs. the 19-20 roll?). Also, if this is different for different abilities, how does each work?
3) I understand the 2 main methods of melee are the sneak attack build and then a soldier/guardian build for the high feats. Are there any others that I should consider as well? Also, on the sneak attack build in particular, can sneak attack combo with other melee feats, or is it a one-or-the-other deal?
What I’m hoping to come out of this post is enough understanding of the mechanics behind dual-wield and extra attacks in combination with other effects, so I know how much damage I can come to expect with a variety of different combinations, and then I can take those into a spreadsheet. It’s much different if I have an 80% crit chance on all my attacks (keen+master crit) instead of just the main-hand attack. For me, half the fun is having a crazy character that I (or someone else that I stole the idea from) designed, and the challenge of building it, rather than the challenge of the game itself.
Melee mechanics questions
1) Flurry always gives one extra swing with the main-hand weapon. As for Master Speed, I've never thought to test this. I always figured it was one extra swing with both hands, but it could be 2 extra swings with the main hand. With two weapons, Flurry, and Master Speed, you will get 5 swings in total.
2) Yes, all those things effect the off hand. If you have two weapons and Master Speed, you will get 4 swings. Master Power Attack will add +10 damage to each of those swings for a total of +40 damage. Critical Strike and Sneak Attack will add to each swing as well. If you are using Critical Strike, it would be better to use two single-blades instead of a double-blade. Single-blades have a 19-20 chance to crit, while double-blades have a 20-20 chance. With Critical Strike, singles will have a 13-20, while double-blades will have a 17-20. Keen is not multiplied by Critical Strike. With Keen and Critical Strike, a single-blade will only have a 12-20 roll.
3) The scoundrel build and the soldier/guardian builds are the only offensive melee builds. Sneak Attack will combine with other melee feats.
2) Yes, all those things effect the off hand. If you have two weapons and Master Speed, you will get 4 swings. Master Power Attack will add +10 damage to each of those swings for a total of +40 damage. Critical Strike and Sneak Attack will add to each swing as well. If you are using Critical Strike, it would be better to use two single-blades instead of a double-blade. Single-blades have a 19-20 chance to crit, while double-blades have a 20-20 chance. With Critical Strike, singles will have a 13-20, while double-blades will have a 17-20. Keen is not multiplied by Critical Strike. With Keen and Critical Strike, a single-blade will only have a 12-20 roll.
3) The scoundrel build and the soldier/guardian builds are the only offensive melee builds. Sneak Attack will combine with other melee feats.
Always remember you're unique ... just like everyone else.
Thanks for the help! But, unfortunately, your answers spark a new question:
From what you say, keen adds 1/2 (depending on weapon) and master critical strike adds 3/6 (since it's adding 3x for a total of 4x), so you get 8 extra? Or are they not even additive to the point where MCS covers up the bonus from keen?
(EDIT) I think your math was slightly off on the keen+crit, that's where I got confused. I think it was supposed to be 11-20, not 12-20, on a 1-hander, since keen would add 2 to the chance. But hey, we all make mistakes
Also (one I should have asked), if I have a level 3 scoundrel and level 17 guardian, will I still get the max rank of sneak attack, or will it be the rank at the highest level of my scoundrel?
I think those two answers would give me enough to carry on for myself which feats/powers to pursue.
I still would like to know if Jedi/Master speed take from the main hand only, but for now I'll just assume they do.
From what you say, keen adds 1/2 (depending on weapon) and master critical strike adds 3/6 (since it's adding 3x for a total of 4x), so you get 8 extra? Or are they not even additive to the point where MCS covers up the bonus from keen?
(EDIT) I think your math was slightly off on the keen+crit, that's where I got confused. I think it was supposed to be 11-20, not 12-20, on a 1-hander, since keen would add 2 to the chance. But hey, we all make mistakes
Also (one I should have asked), if I have a level 3 scoundrel and level 17 guardian, will I still get the max rank of sneak attack, or will it be the rank at the highest level of my scoundrel?
I think those two answers would give me enough to carry on for myself which feats/powers to pursue.
I still would like to know if Jedi/Master speed take from the main hand only, but for now I'll just assume they do.
You get one attack by default, regardless of any single weapon equipped or not.
You get one extra attack with any Flurry Feat used; from the main hand.
You get one extra attack with Knight Speed from the main hand.
You get one extra attack with Master Speed from the main hand.
You get one extra attack if you have two weapons equipped. This will be the from the offhand weapon.
For a grand total of 5 attacks per round at maximum.
This means that a Offhand weapon actually grants very little advantage over a double weapon, except non-specific bonuses like regeneration, attribute bonuses, blaster deflection or the like. Attack bonuses, damage bonuses are all weapon specific and will only work if you attack with it.
Class specific abilities are only granted if you level up in the class, so a level 3 Scoundrel should only have level 2 Sneak Attack. As I know, Sneak Attacks are granted from Force Jump attacks too; and with Master Speed active, this is 4 Sneak Attacks from your main weapon.
Any Feat hits you with any stated penalty once regardless of weather you have one or two (or double) weapons. The bonuses applies to all attacks made in that round regardless of how they are gained.
I believe it was proven in some thread in these forums that Power Attack beats Flurry and Critical Strike in terms of damage done past mid levels if you factor in Master Speed. Seeing that you can only use one at any one time, there is little cause to play other options if you want to power build.
Keen doubles your change to score critical, or double damage, but note that these damage are only factored from your base weapon damage. As I understand it, Bonus damage from Sneak Attack, Power Attack are added after critical damage calculation.
On critical hits, I also like to note of the items granting critical immunities. I'm unsure what is the availability of these items to your opponents.
You get one extra attack with any Flurry Feat used; from the main hand.
You get one extra attack with Knight Speed from the main hand.
You get one extra attack with Master Speed from the main hand.
You get one extra attack if you have two weapons equipped. This will be the from the offhand weapon.
For a grand total of 5 attacks per round at maximum.
This means that a Offhand weapon actually grants very little advantage over a double weapon, except non-specific bonuses like regeneration, attribute bonuses, blaster deflection or the like. Attack bonuses, damage bonuses are all weapon specific and will only work if you attack with it.
Class specific abilities are only granted if you level up in the class, so a level 3 Scoundrel should only have level 2 Sneak Attack. As I know, Sneak Attacks are granted from Force Jump attacks too; and with Master Speed active, this is 4 Sneak Attacks from your main weapon.
Any Feat hits you with any stated penalty once regardless of weather you have one or two (or double) weapons. The bonuses applies to all attacks made in that round regardless of how they are gained.
I believe it was proven in some thread in these forums that Power Attack beats Flurry and Critical Strike in terms of damage done past mid levels if you factor in Master Speed. Seeing that you can only use one at any one time, there is little cause to play other options if you want to power build.
Keen doubles your change to score critical, or double damage, but note that these damage are only factored from your base weapon damage. As I understand it, Bonus damage from Sneak Attack, Power Attack are added after critical damage calculation.
On critical hits, I also like to note of the items granting critical immunities. I'm unsure what is the availability of these items to your opponents.
You're right, my math was off. With keen and MCS, you should only have an 11-20 roll. So, keen adds a 10% chance to crit. Which, at high levels, is basically a 3 or 4 increase in your average damage output. I think it is better to add a crystal that adds a direct 5 or so damage than to use a crystal that adds keen. It should be noted that the stun effect from using Critical Strike will roll regardless of whether any of your hits were criticals or not.skribs wrote:(EDIT) I think your math was slightly off on the keen+crit, that's where I got confused. I think it was supposed to be 11-20, not 12-20, on a 1-hander, since keen would add 2 to the chance. But hey, we all make mistakes
I think all of your other questions were answered by shift244.
Always remember you're unique ... just like everyone else.
I gather that you are asking if the AB (attack bonus) on a crystal increases your damage. AB just effects your chance to land a hit, it doesn't effect the damage that hit does. So 3 attack will not increase your damage as much as 1 attack and keen. 3 attack will not increase your damage at all, unless you factor in that it will give a slight boost in your chance to land a blow.
Edit: I don't know by how much the AB effects your chance to hit. It would be different for every enemy, because each enemy would have a different defense.
Edit: I don't know by how much the AB effects your chance to hit. It would be different for every enemy, because each enemy would have a different defense.
Always remember you're unique ... just like everyone else.
+1 Attack adds 1 in favor to your attack rolls.
As all rolls are made off a d20 die, each +1 could arguably be said to improve your odds of hitting by 5%.
Critical threats are only obtained from rolling within the critical range of the weapon used. This would commonly be 20 (5%), 19-20 (10%), 18-20 (15%) or 17-20 (20%).
Increasing your odds to hit by 5% does not increase your chance to roll on the d20 within the critical range.
If KotOR uses the critical threat-confirmation rules, meaning you must roll another hit when you hit within the critical threat roll before you deal critical damages (miss the confirmation roll and you deal normal damage), then the +1 would increase your critical odds only because it increases your odds of hitting. It does nothing to increase your change to score critical threats.
As Caden has pointed out, the initial assumption of +1 = +5% is not directly true due to the nature of numbers. The +1 is simply a +1. The actual increase of the odds to hits vary with the Defense of the target you are attempting to hit. The odds to score a critical threat however is constant. If this is not troublesome enough, the d20 system of which KotOR is based on sets a 5% hit and miss constant. You always miss on a roll of 1 and always hit on a roll of 20, regardless of Attack or Defense values.
As all rolls are made off a d20 die, each +1 could arguably be said to improve your odds of hitting by 5%.
Critical threats are only obtained from rolling within the critical range of the weapon used. This would commonly be 20 (5%), 19-20 (10%), 18-20 (15%) or 17-20 (20%).
Increasing your odds to hit by 5% does not increase your chance to roll on the d20 within the critical range.
If KotOR uses the critical threat-confirmation rules, meaning you must roll another hit when you hit within the critical threat roll before you deal critical damages (miss the confirmation roll and you deal normal damage), then the +1 would increase your critical odds only because it increases your odds of hitting. It does nothing to increase your change to score critical threats.
As Caden has pointed out, the initial assumption of +1 = +5% is not directly true due to the nature of numbers. The +1 is simply a +1. The actual increase of the odds to hits vary with the Defense of the target you are attempting to hit. The odds to score a critical threat however is constant. If this is not troublesome enough, the d20 system of which KotOR is based on sets a 5% hit and miss constant. You always miss on a roll of 1 and always hit on a roll of 20, regardless of Attack or Defense values.