Help for a not-so-newb

[Wyl]

Hey all,

As the Topic title suggests, I'm not new to Baldurs Gate in any respect, but neither am I good at it.

I've recently started a Half-elf Fighter/Mage/Thief (9/11/10 I think) with Specialization in Flail/Morning-Stars, Darts, and Sword&Shield Style. Current AC -8
(Bracer's of Defence AC 3, Fortress Shield+3, Helm of Baldurn, Girdle of Bluntness, Fail of Ages +3, Ring of Protection +1, Ring of Earth Control, Metaspell Amulet.)

I intend to 'solo' most the way through, picking up some NPC's to do their quests, and eventually picking up and keeping Keldorn (Someones gotta take the heat).

So far, I'm attempting to do all of the quests in Amn (I think thats the name of the city) only venturing out to do Naila's quest, and rustle up enough gold to get the Robe of Venca*.

My question(s) to you is
A) Is my class selection a good move (Including weapon preferences)
B*) Would the Robe of Venca lower my AC below -8? (It says on the description that it sets base AC to 5)
C) What order should I quest to get it fastest? (Umar Hills? Trademeet? Lord Jedrian? The Arch-Lich? Planar Sphere?)
D) Any other advice and tips would be helpful.

Note. Thieving skills are: Pick Lock: 100
Detect Traps: 100
Set traps: 100
Pickpocket: 65
Hide in Shadows: Whatever the base is
Move Silently: " " " "
Detect Illusion: 0

Thank you all for your help.

Edit: I play with the Sword&Fist, Song&Silence, Geomatic Sorcerer, and The Fixpack Mods as well as the ToB Patch (I have ToB installed)

[mcgregor]

I'm sure someone who knows the game better will be able to give better advice than me later on, but for now I'll say what I think.

1) F/M/T is definately a good enough class to win the game solo. There's some good flails around (particularly in the keep you mentioned) so thats a good choice - however, you might want to consider using weapons you can backstab with. I'd probably go with long-swords, there's good ones all through the game. Probably better off with sling than darts - then you can get the bonus off both the launcher and the bullet, rather than just the dart. Also I'd go two-weapon style, as the extra attack on the offhand is more beneficial than the AC increase with the shield. You can also get the bonuses off two weapons as well.

2) I think it probably would lower your AC, but it may depend on your dexterity bonus. Go with it anyway, its more useful for the reduction in spell speed than AC bonus, and is by far the best for that class. There are loads of spells that will make you pretty much unhittable anyway - mirror image, stoneskin, protect against normal/magic weapons just as a starter.

3) The d'Arnese keep yields a lot of gold, i think.

mcgregor

[galraen]

A) Class yes, proficiencies no. As flails/morning stars aren't natural thieves weapons you won't get any backstab bonus with them. If you have the mod that cheats in the East Haven flail, then flails become more useful if you have two-weapon specialisation. On the whole though you're better off with thieves weapons when you get to choose more proficiencies.

B) No, not when you're wearing those bracers, which give a better A/C. Still well worth getting though.


C) D'Arnise kep yields a lot of money, but you'll only get 650GP if you don't have Nalia with you, 10,000 if she is with you BTW. Do the Bridge Murder quest, then the Trademeet quests is what I would suggest, you can handle Trolls obviously so that should be fairly straight forward, make sure you get Belm (scimitar) whilst you're in the grove area.

[Crenshinibon]

Actually the flail proficiency is a good one, if you can get the Defender of Easthaven at least.

[Saros]

Hey all,

As the Topic title suggests, I'm not new to Baldurs Gate in any respect, but neither am I good at it.

I've recently started a Half-elf Fighter/Mage/Thief (9/11/10 I think) with Specialization in Flail/Morning-Stars, Darts, and Sword&Shield Style. Current AC -8
(Bracer's of Defence AC 3, Fortress Shield+3, Helm of Baldurn, Girdle of Bluntness, Fail of Ages +3, Ring of Protection +1, Ring of Earth Control, Metaspell Amulet.)

I intend to 'solo' most the way through, picking up some NPC's to do their quests, and eventually picking up and keeping Keldorn (Someones gotta take the heat).

So far, I'm attempting to do all of the quests in Amn (I think thats the name of the city) only venturing out to do Naila's quest, and rustle up enough gold to get the Robe of Venca*.

My question(s) to you is
A) Is my class selection a good move (Including weapon preferences)
B*) Would the Robe of Venca lower my AC below -8? (It says on the description that it sets base AC to 5)
C) What order should I quest to get it fastest? (Umar Hills? Trademeet? Lord Jedrian? The Arch-Lich? Planar Sphere?)
D) Any other advice and tips would be helpful.

Note. Thieving skills are: Pick Lock: 100
Detect Traps: 100
Set traps: 100
Pickpocket: 65
Hide in Shadows: Whatever the base is
Move Silently: " " " "
Detect Illusion: 0

Thank you all for your help.

Edit: I play with the Sword&Fist, Song&Silence, Geomatic Sorcerer, and The Fixpack Mods as well as the ToB Patch (I have ToB installed)

First of all, install the G3 fixpack, and not the BG2. The G3 has the option of adding some wizard HLAs(extra lvl 6, 7 and 8 spell slot), and you'll certainly need those.

A F/M/T is extremely versatile, so it is no big mistake that you put some proficiency points in Darts or Sword-And-Shield style, but those points are wasted. I'll try to explain why.

Sword-and-shield proficiences add only bonuses to your AC vs missiles. AC is highly overrated. I've had a Monk with base AC -14 and additional anti-missile AC adjustment -26 and he still died from Kobold Arrows. Silly, huh? Not to mention that there is a shield early in the game granting missile immunity...

When your fighter levels reach 13, you will have 2 base Attacks Per Round with your main-handed melee weapon, provided you are proficient with it. If not, you will have only 1 base APR with your main hand. And since there are a lot of useful melee weapons, you'll need to be proficient in other things rather than Sword-and Shield or Darts.

Darts and other missile weapons do not suffer the APR reduction penalty if you're not proficient with them, only the THAC0 penalty, and there are plenty of ways to improve your THAC0 when needed. So don't put specialization points in those.

I'd say that for a starting F/M/T solo it is very important to have 2 stars in two-weapon fighting style, at least 1 star in Long Swords and also 1 star in Short Swords. The next star achieved can be put either in Quarterstaves(backstabbing with Staff of Striking or Staff of the Ram) or Flails. A star in both War Hammers and Axes is next thing that comes to mind(Crom Faeyr, Axe of Unyielding). Maybe in Two-Handed swords too after that, for proper use of Carsomyr. And lastly, a star in Bastard Swords for the Purifier. After that (provided you have stars left), you may want to improve your Two-handed weapon style...

Edit: You will have very few proficiencies with a F/M/T, compared to a pure fighter, but there is a trick with Importing a pre-generated character, which will give you 2 extra weapon proficiencies to distribute at character creation.

Your character is more than able to take all kinds of attacks, if buffed properly. Stoneskin, Mirror Image, Protection from Fire/Cold/Acid/Electricity/Magical damage, Spell Shield, Spell Trap, Spell Turning, Improved Invisibility, Improved Haste, Spirit Armor, Blur, various Spell immunities and Protection from Magical weapons are the most useful spells for your class, since you'll spend most of the game pounding enemies in melee while well protected by your buffs. Sometimes, very rarely, you may have to rely on magic, but as far as I remember, proper buffing and melee should kill just about anyone. So, you really don't need Keldorn, and your character soon enough will be able to wield even Carsomyr on his own.

Spoiler below(money).

Spoiler

A thief of any kind should be able to achieve as much as he wants gold. Simply drink some potions of Thievery, Perception and Mind Focusing, which will raise your Pickpocketing skill to 200(do not go over 250% because a bug triggers). After that, put a valuable item in your pack (Plate of Balduran is what comes to mind), find a Thief merchant(there are a few around, especially in the Docks area) and go for selling and re-stealing that particular items. Honest traders will not buy something that you have already looted, but Thieves have no qualms about it, so you can make as many million GP as you want.

All of the quests are quite easy, since you've picked a powerful class. The question, however, is how you play it afterwards, and that's something you oughtta learn on your own. But if you have more questions(tough fights or anything), I will be happy to answer them.

The Robe of Vecna will not lower your AC below -8, because you wear the Bracers of Protection 3, which set your base AC to 3, and after that other bonuses are applied(dexterity bonus, protective items bonuses, shield bonuses, weapon AC bonuses and so on). There are plenty of ways to improve your AC:

Use Potions of Protection, Invulnerability or Stone form. They all set your base AC to 0, but better save those for the tougher fights.

Use the spell Spirit Armor. It does not only set your base AC to 1 for 10 turns, but also gives a +3 saving throw bonus vs spells. Besides, this way you can dump the silly bracers of defense and put on something much more useful, like the bracers of (extraordinary) specialization.

Use the Blur Spell. It is a long-lasting buff, which gives you 3 bonus AC in addition to all other bonuses and grants you +1 to all saving throws.

There are a lot of useful weapons, giving bonuses to AC - Dak'kon Zerth Blade, Defender of Easthaven, Staves of Power and of the Magi.

And finally, improve your Dexterity for a long time by drinking a couple of potions of Mind Focusing. This will not only improve your AC, but also your Intelligence(100% scroll learning) and some of your thieving skills too.

P.S. Don't forget the Backstab.

P.P.S. Use your next 4 Thief level-ups to make your Detect Invisibility skill 100%, after that focus on Hide in Shadows and Move Silently(try to have equal points in those skills, they're the only skills you will have to make more than 100%).

P.P.P.S. Use the Cloak of Non-Detection as soon as you find it.

[mcgregor]

Can I ask a few questions on that, as much for my own benefit as anything else?

I'd say that for a starting F/M/T solo it is very important to have 2 stars in two-weapon fighting style, at least 1 star in Long Swords and also 1 star in Short Swords. The next star achieved can be put either in Quarterstaves(backstabbing with Staff of Striking or Staff of the Ram) or Flails. A star in both War Hammers and Axes is next thing that comes to mind(Crom Faeyr, Axe of Unyielding). Maybe in Two-Handed swords too after that, for proper use of Carsomyr. And lastly, a star in Bastard Swords for the Purifier. After that (provided you have stars left), you may want to improve your Two-handed weapon style...

Why is spreading the proficiencies out like this better than putting 5 stars into any one of them?

P.P.S. Use your next 4 Thief level-ups to make your Detect Invisibility skill 100%, after that focus on Hide in Shadows and Move Silently(try to have equal points in those skills, they're the only skills you will have to make more than 100%).

I thought that these skills could be entirely ignored, seeing as (improved) invisibility and mislead do just as good a job?

mcgregor

[Silvanerian]

The spreading of proficiencies is not advisable in my opinion. But Saros seems to like it - it's all about playstyle.

Reason why you should spread your proficiencies:
- Super versatile character able to use almost any weapon and thereby utilise their innate abilities to greater effeciency

Reasons why you should not spread out your proficiencies:
- 90-95% of all battles will be fought using your favourite weapon or combo or 2 weapons.
- As a f/m/t and solist, you will most likely use most of your arcane on defense/buffs and do most killing in melee. The more proficient you are, the quicker you kill.


Personally, I tend to do a mix:
Start out with maxing what I want as 'standard weapon' as well as two weapon style, along with 1 star in any given blunt weapon for Clay Golems/Mustard gellies (if piercing was chosen as standard).

After that put your proficiencies where they will add most value afterward.

I would never sacrifice an extra half attack, +2 damage as well as +1 thac0 for a large part of the game just so I could wield a specific weapon for a special battle some time in the future. The f/m/t can handle any battle in numerous ways, and does not need to rely on specific weaponry that much. His killing rate - as for all solo characters - is of prime importance.

If you play with the Grandmaster 'fix' as well as whatever 'fix' that allows multiclassed fighters to grandmaster, the above becomes all the more important, as huge benefits are to be gained.

As level 9 fighter, you have 7 proficiencies. 2 in two weapon fighting as minimum, 2 in standard weapon used, 1 blunt, leaves you 2 more stars to put as you like - a third in two weapon fighting is a good idea as well as a second star in a prof. which will add a specific ability that you need as off-hand weapon. The katana mentioned, or belm or the short sword of quickness for example which both add an extra attack to your main hand attack.

-------------

As for thief skills, the detect illusion is (very nice) for a solist, as it acts as a free True Sight spell whenever you want, when you have the skill at 100%.

You are right about hide in shadows and move silently being the less important skills for a solo f/m/t, considering all the other ways to become invisible - there are tons of potions out there.
Saros knows this too, I believe, as he put them as the last to develop.

-------------

To the original poster, I would edit my proficiencies with shadow keeper if I were you, as you are giving up a lot by not backstabbing. Add dual wield as previously suggested for more melee power. However, note that some shields add tremendous resistances/immunities - well worth the slot for a solist in my opinion.
Especially the shield of harmony - it's immunities are all against 'instant death' situations for a solist (mind/hold). As for how to get Vecna easiest, go do Trademeet asap - it's more than doable right out of Irenicus' dungeon, and it gives you all the gold you need for Vecna *and* the above mentioned shield.
Just be sure to get a scroll of Friends (level 1 spell, can be bought all other the place) prior your purchase, and the gold from Trademeet is enough for Vecna (given your charisma with Friends is above 18).


Cheers and happy gaming.

[galraen]

[quote="mcgregor"]Why is spreading the proficiencies out like this better than putting 5 stars into any one of them?/QUOTE]

He/she is a Fighter/Mage/Thief and therefor can put a max of two stars into any weapon. How much difference is there between one and two stars? As Silvanerian points out it's a matter of style, personally I'd go with 2 in Katana, Scimitar and two weapon fighting as I don't use the Defender of Easthaven cheese or exploit the staff glitch.

[Wyl]

Wow...
Thank you all for your posts.

@ Saros: Thank you for your (extensive) post, reading it, I might just restart and follow some of that advice. The Fixpack I have *is* the G3 one, so no worries there.

@ Silvanerian: Again, Thank you. Regarding ShadowKeeper, I have little to no experience with things like that...and I find that the ability to change things that the game itself wouldn't normally let you, is cheating a little too much...
On the same note, can you tell me where to find the 'Grandmaster fix'?

So on the whole, I feel as though a restart is called for. Thanks you all again.

Another question here, on the terms of Mods, which ones will make the game better for me without making it too easy/hard?

[mcgregor]

He/she is a Fighter/Mage/Thief and therefor can put a max of two stars into any weapon.

I did know that, just wasn't thinking straight!

On the same note, can you tell me where to find the 'Grandmaster fix'?

Its a part of the G3 tweak pack found [url="http://www.gibberlings3.net/bg2tweaks/index.php"]here[/url]

Another question here, on the terms of Mods, which ones will make the game better for me without making it too easy/hard?

Try, if you havn't already, the Quest pack, Unfinished Business, G3 Anniversary mod, or if you're interested in NPC's, Kelsey. I have used all of these and recommend them.

mcgregor

[wise grimwald]

I also recommend unfinished business. It just puts in those parts of the game that the developers didn't have the time to do.
I also recomment the banter pack and romantic encounters if you are into roleplaying.
I found underrepresented items, the tweak pack and ease of use made the game a bit too easy. However, if you install a mod that makes things more difficult, then you might need them.
The thing that I didn't like about ease of use is that it takes away one of the very realistic problems that adventurers have. That is, you can't carry everything. When you're mountaineering, trekking, or fighting a war, you have to decide what to leave behind. This is true whether you're carrying equipment on your back, in a vehicle, or in a plane. Others however have different opinions and the choice is yours.

[Silvanerian]

Wyl - a few additions to your comments and also in general.

Grandmaster 'fix':

First off, the grandmaster fix restores grandmastery to what it should be as per AD&D rules. The developers of the game thought that was a bit too much apparently so toned it down to a degree where it made almost no sense investing more than 2 stars. (grandmastery requires 5)
Anyways, from memory, grandmastery as compared to specialisation grants an extra half attack plus better thac0 and damage.
Fighters got nerfed alot in BG2 - which is also why mages are favoured as most powerful class all-round. Fighters should have been given a half attack extra per 6 levels - the game only grants that for level 7 and 13.
Anyway, whether you want to use it or not is your choice - personally I like it, because it only adds what your supposed to have anyway, and it also allows me to use melee characters who do not have 18/xx in strength all the time.

Regarding weapons and proficiencies, for any thief class, whether multi or not, it is highly advisable to backstab. It is an awesome ability, as you will quikcly find out, as it usually allows you to take out one opponent before combat really starts. (advise is to prioritise spellcasters)
From memory, you can backstab with: any bladed weapon except axe, bastard sword, two handed sword, spear and halbard. Of the blunted weapons, believe only club and quaterstaff can backstab, but I suggest you verify that before choosing.
So for backstabbing, you would generally choose a weapon doing either piercing or slashing damage.

There are a few creatures immune to piercing attack and fewer still can only be harmed by blunt damage. However, I estimate those would only be around 0,1% of all your opponents. That's why proficiency in a blunt weapon is enough in my opinion, unless you have other reason to. (there are some really good blunted weapons out there with great abilities, such as undead slaying - very handy in specific situations)

As for a link to shadowkeeper: Shadow Keeper

With shadowkeeper you can edit practically anything. Yes, you can exploit and cheat. It's a great tool to correct an obvious 'oops', or for making illigal special characters/class combinations or in case you loose a quest relevant item. It will further never harm your saves, as it creates a 'double'. I've used it several years with not a single issue.


As for mods, some good ones have already been mentioned - further, there is the Rogue Rebalancing mod and ascension which I can recommend. The latter is ToB material only, though.

As you are soloing, there are further a few 'convenience' mods, which allow for greater quantity per stack (game allows for 5 max) as well as the possibility to upgrade items into more powerful variations or even combine powerful items into awesome ones. 'Ease of Use' I believe it is called.


I suggest you do a couple of searches on the topic of mods, as there are litterally tons out there and I have personally only tested a minor percentage.


Cheers

[Dante2377]

FYI, the weapons you can backstab with are the melee weapons that a single-class thief can use - long sword, short sword, dagger, club, quarterstaff, and katana (not sure about scimitar though).

As a FMT you can use any of them, you just can't backstab with a non-thief weapon.

[wise grimwald]

And don't forget that if your oponent is immune to magical weapons,"Irenecus comes to mind" you can always backstab with your fists.

[Dante2377]

And don't forget that if your oponent is immune to magical weapons,"Irenecus comes to mind" you can always backstab with your fists.

Probably just easier to carry a non-magical version of whatever weapon you're using - that way you get the specialization damage (+2x5 = 10 more damage).

[Wyl]

Wow, the help just keeps rolling in...

I never use backstabbing, but from whats been said, I might just change that.

[wise grimwald]

Probably just easier to carry a non-magical version of whatever weapon you're using - that way you get the specialization damage (+2x5 = 10 more damage).

Quite true, but Irenecus isn't exactly hard. Just pile in with fists and he he quite easy so long as you are reasonably buffed first. Not like some of the others that ARE hard.

[Sytze]

P.P.S. Use your next 4 Thief level-ups to make your Detect Invisibility skill 100%, after that focus on Hide in Shadows and Move Silently(try to have equal points in those skills, they're the only skills you will have to make more than 100%).

P.P.P.S. Use the Cloak of Non-Detection as soon as you find it.

I disagree to some extend. Use your thief levels to improve your Find Traps and Open Lock abilities, then move over to Detect Invisibility (my experience is the higher the points, the faster the dispel) and Set Traps—and if you want, Pick Pocket because it'll net you some fine items real quick. You scarcely need Hide in Shadows and Move Silently. Why? Because you're a fighter/MAGE/thief. You have invisibility spells. Lots. Combined with Spell Immunity: Divination you're better and longer protected. Besides, this leaves you with a much better cloak to wear: The Cloak of Mirroring (or the Cloak of the Sewers / Cloak of Displacement for early game).

Once you get the mage spell Mislead, however, the fun really starts. You can put the clone at a safe distance—meaning out of the enemy’s line of sight—and stay invisible even after backstabbing, even after spells such as True Sight.

If you’re really intent on using Hide in Shadows and Move Silently, though, put most skill points in the latter, because:

The chance to enter stealth mode is (Move Silently + Hide in Shadows)/2 in %.
The chance to remain in stealth mode is Move Silently in %.
Moreover, Move Silently determines the amount of time you remain in stealth mode after you "Leave Shadows".

As for proficiencies, you’ve had some good pointers on that already. My choice would be to follow Silvanerian’s advice and put two stars in Two Weapon Fighting, two points in your main choice of weapon and one in blunt weapons for those annoying golems and the like. For the main weapon, katanas top my list with CF and Dak'kon’s Zerth Blade, and Longswords with Equalizer and Daystar coming in a close second.

Whatever you do or whatever you choice, as a solo Fighter/Mage/Thief you should be able to beat any obstacle. So don’t worry too much about your build and just have fun.