The apartment in which you were "Embraced" ...

[Jhereg]

*** Possible Spoilers ***

LaX - I rather liked that as shorthand - La 'X' in French "Croix" - my Aunt's maiden name was Delacroix (as in the painter) - which appears to have been a surname meaning 'Christian', which as she came from a predominantly non-christian country made a bit of sense from the days when surnames related to something distinctive about the family.

Strange that a vamp should be La Croix - but I suppose he was the cross that the other vamps had to bear...

Delacroix - literally, "Of the Cross", as opposed to LaCroix - literally "The Cross". I think your inference is correct. In this case, LaCroix would be more accurately associated with the Romans, who provided the thing and used it. However, I doubt that was intentional, or perhaps a double-ententre. Lacroix was Nick Knight's sire/nemesis in the TV series "Forever Night", about a vampire cop.

Back to the plot, I share the mystification that Gary isn't pleased that the PC got rid of Andrei. Mind you - if you look in the store room, Gary is supplying Sin Bin with films - could that include DMP ones? if so, then Andrei and Gary are working together. Mitnick already has cameras in the warrens.

That is not necessarily true - would Andrei want that tape "in the wind" so to speak if it would attract attention (fatal, I might add) to him? More likely Gary swiped it for personal gain if, indeed, he was involved at all. The guy at DMP says one of their guys found it in the house in the hills. Andrei himself says it was never intended to go public, and he does go to some lengths to keep it secret.

[Celacena]

would Andrei want that tape "in the wind" so to speak if it would attract attention (fatal, I might add) to him? More likely Gary swiped it for personal gain if, indeed, he was involved at all. The guy at DMP says one of their guys found it in the house in the hills. Andrei himself says it was never intended to go public, and he does go to some lengths to keep it secret.

sometimes I miss dialogue as I don't have the others dialogue as subtitles - I missed that point about Andrei - shame on me!
Odd that it should just have been laying around though - it has shots from a few cameras, not just one - would that implicate the nossies in making it? they like to have cameras set up around the place?

[Jhereg]

sometimes I miss dialogue as I don't have the others dialogue as subtitles - I missed that point about Andrei - shame on me!
Odd that it should just have been laying around though - it has shots from a few cameras, not just one - would that implicate the nossies in making it? they like to have cameras set up around the place?

You know, that's a truly excellent point, and I must admit I missed it entirely (not for lack of sub-titles - just brain dead). None of Andrei's monsters strike me as the artsy type, but he could have enlisted his sabbat followers to do some of the camera work. At least a few of them must have obfuscate, and be able to tape without being seen. Some of the camera work seems to involve movement of the camera, so I don't think a static camera would work, and remotes are just too slow. Still, I'm going to have to take another gander at that tape and look for all the stuff that I've clearly missed (you know, like the jet airplane in "Airplane" making the noises of a prop-job).

[wjw]

Hi,

i am quiet new to these boards, usually only reading them,
but the VtM plot really tickels me.

I have got a few questions before i will throw in my own opinion here:

How did Ming actually acquired the key of the Sarcaphogus?

[Anaximander]

How did Ming actually acquired the key of the Sarcaphogus?

There is no deffinate answer to that. All we can do is speculate.

A popular theory is that Jack was behind the masacre on the Elizabeth Dane, and that he made it look as though the sarcophagus had been opened from within. We know from the Dane's cargo manifest that the box containing the key was missing when the ship came to port. If it's true that Jack raided the Dane to set everything in motion, then it's possible that he gave the key to Ming Xiao. It's hard to fathom Jack dealing with the Keui-Jin, though. Especially since the Los Angeles Anarchs just ended a war with them. A war in which many Anarchs were given the final death.

[wjw]

Not really, the key was the trigger for the bomb.
And it can't have been to difficult to 'give' the key to the Keui-Jin.

Just spreading the word around that it's somewhere, should have done the trick. Just like Lacroix gets the sarcaphogus from the Giovanni's.

Infact the key is the reason why the alliance between the camarilla and the kuei-jin is broken. I'll stick to the Jack theory than.

What i find strange is:
If Jack succeeds in setting up such a difficult plot scheme, why doesn't he hit the real leader of the Camarilla: Strauss?

[Anaximander]

What i find strange is:
If Jack succeeds in setting up such a difficult plot scheme, why doesn't he hit the real leader of the Camarilla: Strauss?

Because he's not suicidal. LaCroix is a Ventrue, and the Camarilla Prince of Las Angeles. He's got wealth, experience, power... a whole city essentially under his control. But he's no Tremere Regent.

You don't mess with the Tremere. For one thing, it's impossible to know what any one Tremere is fully capable of. He could burn you to crisp where you stand, boil your blood from half a mile away, hurl massive objects at you with the power of his mind. And those are powers from only 3 schools of Thaumaturgy. There are many, many more.

Then there are the blood rituals. Through their research into the power of the Blood, an individual Tremere or a chantry collaberating together can create rituals that have extremely powerul, often permanent effects. When some Tremere tried to split off from the Camarilla and join the Sabbat, they were all killed in a single night. Many believe the Camarilla Tremere did it with a blood ritual. By the power of the rituals, the Tremere can even achieve immunity to the Disciplines of the other clans.

On top of all that, there is the clan's solidarity. Tremere may sqaubble amongst themselves, but few outside the clan ever see this. To anyone not Tremere, the Tremere clan appears to be the most unified of all. Mess with one Tremere, and his entire chantry would put their personal differences aside to deal with the offender.

The Tremere are perhaps the most feared and distrusted of all the clans. Even the Camarilla doesn't trust them, but they'd rather have the blood sorcerers on their side than working against them. I doubt even Jack, as brazen as he is, would risk Strauss' wrath.

Now.. All of that aside, LaCroix just isn't the ideal Prince. He's out for himself. As Jack says, he's your typical Ventrue A-hole. All he cares about is himself and his own position and power. Strauss would probably be a more responsible leader. However, the Anarchs probably wouldn't like him any more than they did LaCroix, and nobody would ever really trust him. He is, after all, still a Tremere Regent.

A little addendum: I just came across an interesting commentary on the Ventrue clan. I think parts of it apply to LaCroix pretty well.

[Celacena]

Prof was told where to look for the sarc - he knew about the key
when we see the box on the Dane, it is unlocked, but no key
when we next see it at the Giovanni's, it is locked, but there is no key
Beckett doesn't know for sure that there is a key until after Leopold
Ming has the key
the box has C4 in it when it gets opened
the mummy is in jack's possession at the end, sat on the other chair

we assume Jack raided the ship and opened the box, then made it look as if it had been opened from the inside

it then got re-locked between the Dane and the museum
the Giovanni's stole it from the museum
Ming knew the Gs had it and was stealing it back AND had the key

so somebody re-locked the casket, filled it with C4 and passed the key to Ming.

Ming and LaX were in league - if they had opened it together, the blast would have got both of them - so if the Anarchs did it - they couldn't lose, once the trap had been set. the difficult part was to make people believe that the box was important and that had been done earlier on.

E says he doesn't "want to be around when the Jack comes out of the box" - he's friends with the prophetic thin blood, but is it mystical or is it a warning by somebody not anti-thin blood?

[Sir Twist]

Ok, as to the 'Embraced' scene, yes, it does start out what seems like in front of the Asylum. However, I think this was a mistake on the "filming" part. I think they were intending things to be different. In fact, it is noticeable on the exterior of the building. I think the interior was supposed to be an apartment building, same as the exterior. The Foxy Boxes was supposed to be elsewhere, like the building behind tattoo parlor. Or beside the diner. The point is, I think they were in a rush to get things done, and placed things where they did to save on space, really.

Now, as to the coffin stuff, I have a rather interesting idea on this. The first mention of the ship, is during the first part of the game, after the Embrace, trial, and tutorial. The cool thing is that if you don't watch the t.v. then you miss out on somethings, part of which is the mention of the ship which the coffin is found. Also, the broadcast mentions the slaying, and several other things, as well. Somethings are really relevant to the storyline, some not quite so. All depends on what you read into it, take from them, etc. Anyway, the scratches on the sarcophagus could be that Jack got there, opened it, got the dude out, then got in, and made the scratches himself. As Jack was getting off the boat, the coast guard could have came along, and Jack dropped the key near the Foxy Box, which the Keui-jin picked up. Then showed up at the trial, etc. Anyway, I think more is revealed in the story the more you play it. At least that is how I feel, everytime.

[Wesp5]

we assume Jack raided the ship and opened the box, then made it look as if it had been opened from the inside

Yes, but Jack simply put the C4 in on the Dane and then locked the box again. I don't think it was unlocked there.

[Minalkali]

Just throwing this out there, but looking at the screenie, while it does look just like Asylum, it could be anywhere. They most likely just considered it a generic building building block.

[Sir Twist]

Minalkali, I think you are right, I think they just used a blank skybox to do the Embrace sequence, including the building. The Embrace could have happened somewhere else in the L.A. area, and just looks like it's outside of the Asylum.

[Wesp5]

Minalkali, I think you are right, I think they just used a blank skybox to do the Embrace sequence, including the building. The Embrace could have happened somewhere else in the L.A. area, and just looks like it's outside of the Asylum.

You can look into the level Troika used for the Embrace and half the streets around the Asylum is in that map. As well as the theatre inside for the following Camarilla meeting.