New IWD2 Player Few questions please.

sonny · Post by **sonny** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 9:26 pm

Getting ready to start IWD2 and after reading the game manual, I need a little help.

It looks to a novice like me that this game is harder to play the the games I've played so far.

As any of you that have followed my post, I've played BG, BG2, PS:T, and IWD, all with out a walkthrough.

I was hoping some of you IWD2 veterans could give me what you think would make a survivable party. I would like to play a 6 person party, in normal mode.

I"m still trying to understand what the purpose of HOF mode is?

As an example:
Fighter (st-dex-con-int-wis-cha and any other helpful hints.)

I know I will get different opinions, and that's OK. Will try to take the best advice everyone has to offer.

And as most of you know that have read my post, I'm a roleplayer not a power gamer.

Thanks in advance
Sonny

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 1:35 am

Well, a rollplayer is a powerplayer. It's a "roleplayer" that you meant, no?

Secondly, good roleplaying calls for some powerplaying, since roleplaying is hard when you're dead the moment you leave town, eh?

Knowing you, you have already read up on the manual, so that's good, so you know what the stats do. You might want to read it again after playing a few hours.

IWD2 is the worst of the Infinity games, IMO, and also the longest, so be prepared.

HoF mode offers a very, very tough enemies, but you get a lot more XP and better treasure.

As far stats, apply these rules:
Everybody needs at the very, very least at least 14 in CON, probably 16.
Drop CHA to 3 if they aren't a Paladin, Bard or Sorcerer.
If they don't need a lot of skills, drop INT to 3.
Bards and Sorcerers need as high as possible in CHA. Paladins to a lesser extend.
Clerics need as much WIS as possible.
Wizards need INT as much as possible.
If you want to hit things, raise STR as high as possible.

kmonster · Post by **kmonster** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 12:15 pm

Essential is a fast levelling cleric for access to high level cleric spells as fast as possible. Which deity you take isn't very important. Just make sure that you choose a non-evil alignment for your cleric (the deity can be evil) so you can use spontaneous healing.
Dreadmasters of Bane are most popular because they get a rewarding extra encounter in the game, I like battleguard of Tempus more, their domain spells are only cleric spells but they're useful and two free axe feats help in combat, other deities aren't bad either.
Since concentration is the only skill you need 3 int is enough. The con bonus dwarves get helps surviving, so I'd take a shield dwarf with stats 18-16-20-3-18-1.

Also essential is someone who gains access to as high level arcane spells as fast as possible. I prefer sorcerer over wizard since they are more powerful, mage scrolls of level 4 or higher are found quite late and spontaneous casting means more fun, more roleplaying and less metagaming.
If you don't like sorcerers a shield dwarf diviner with stats 16-18-20-18-3-1 is the best choice, gnome, human or halfling or a non-specialist mage are quite good too.
I'd take a human sorcerer with stats 16-18-18-3-3-18. Humans get 2 skillpoints per level even with 3 int (other races need 12+ int for this), I'd put one into concentration and the other into spellcraft. A caster with 10 spellcraft can take elemental feats like spirit of flame for 20 percent extra damage and 5 extra resistance.
Charisma is the casting stat and therefore most important, dex and con help surviving, high strength isn't needed but still more useful than wis which affects only one of the saving throws.

Very useful are bards. Thanks to the "lingering song" feat their singing is three times as powerful as in IWD, letting the other party members do far more damage in combat. The spells are nice, you can buff before and heal after combat. More than 8-10 strength for carrying capacity isn't needed since their songs will make fighting for them unnecessary once they gained some levels. High dex and con are important for surviving. Wisdom is nearly useless and can be dumped to the minimum. Charisma is the casting stat, int can be dumped, you don't need any skillpoints for singing.
An option is aasimar bard with stats 16-18-18-3-5-20.

Also very useful are druids. The barkskin spell alone is worth having one and their other spells and shapeshifts also offer powerful options. "Scion of storms" is a very useful feat for them, so getting 2 skillpoints per level for maximizing concentration and getting some spellcraft would be nice.
A human with stats 16-18-18-3-18-3 is most powerful. If you want an elf with 2 skill points per level take stats like 14-15-16-10-18-3.

Although not necessary it's nice to have someone to pick the locks and handle the traps, to handle the search, disarm and lockpick skills. A character with 18 int gets both a high int modifier to search and disarm and more than enough skillpoints to handle the skills, even without thief levels. But if you start with a rogue level you get higher success chances and 12 extra skillpoints at creation.
Since both thieves and mages need int multiclassing with specialist wizard is a nice option.
Transmuters with high alchemy skill get an useful extra option in the game, I wouldn't take one as main caster but as backup casters they're nice.
You could take a tiefling rogue1/transmuter x with stats 16-20-18-20-3-1 if backstabbing isn't very important to you. You could handle both the thieving and knowledge skills.
If you do want a sneak attacking rogue you can take a half-orc with stats 20-18-18-14-3-1 and raise only strength at level up. You can spend a feat for using a damaging long range 2-hand weapon without penalty or add a barbarian level to get those feats.

Having a multiclass paladin can be useful late in the game. For the role of the non-caster tank in heavy armor an option is gold dwarf paladin2/fighter x with stats 18-13-20-3-4-18. Raise only strength at level up.

Avoid the "improved initiative" feat, it doesn't work. I like giving dash to everyone so the party moves faster. Dodge is a nice defensive feat. For sorcerers/mages greater spell focusses and and elemental feats are most useful for casting, for druids GSF transmutation and "scion of storms" are the best ones. Rapid shot is extremely powerful if you don't use crossbows for ranged combat.

High strength is essential for doing physical damage. 2-handed weapons are much better than 1-handed ones. At least 13 dex is required for some very useful feats.

sonny · Post by **sonny** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 12:39 pm

Thanks guys.

I just read through the manual for the 2nd time.

Is the character creation and the game it's self that difficult or am I reading to much into it.

Please don't take this as whining, but I play games to have fun. Is this game fun? I mean I'm going to play it, I don't like to give up on anything, especially before I even try it.
But if I've got to spend all my time reloading

Also is there dual -classing or only multi-classing, or they one and the same?

Again thanks for the help
Sonny

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 1:07 pm

Character creation has more options than in the other (2nd Edition D&D) games. It's not harder, just more.

Mutliclassing is the only option, but it works differently.
Think of each level as a slot that can be filled with a level of your choice. As long as those are all within one level of each other, you get no XP penalty. Favoured classes don't count.
For example: a Dwarf has Fighter as favoured class.
So a Dwarf Paladin2/Fighter8 has no penalty, since Fighter is favoured. A Dwarf Paladin2/Cleric4 gets a penalty, since the difference is more than one level. Paladin2/Cleric3 is fine, though.
It's more how PS:T worked, to an extent.

Personally, I found IWD2 the least enjoyable game of these series. Its story isn't vgery engaging and much too long drawn out, while combat gets repetitive and it lacks the atmosphere that made IWD1 so enjoyable.

sonny · Post by **sonny** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 6:09 pm

Just found a disk in the box that IWD2 came in (don't know how I missed it) called IWD2 Bonus disk. And on it is something called IWD Adventure Pack.

What is this and should I load it into the game?

Right now I've got the game, the 2.01 patch and the G3 Tweak Pack loaded, and I just finished character creation and saved a game after getting off the boat.

Thanks
Sonny

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 2:22 am

No idea what it is. Try opening the disc in windowsexplorer? Try to do a Google? I'm intrigued...

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 10:10 am

I also have the Ultimate Collection, and I just opened up the disc and found the readme.
Here's a description:

"Welcome to the Icewind Dale II Bonus Disc. This disc contains eleven unique
items that have never been seen before in the Forgotten Realms. They also
have Heart of Fury mode equivalents so technically there are twenty-one
unique items. Below is where you can find them in the game. If you want to
know where they are, read on. If you would rather try and find them yourself, please stop now. We really hope you enjoy the bonus items and your adventures in Icewind Dale II. Good hunting."

sonny · Post by **sonny** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 10:53 am

dragon wench wrote:I also have the Ultimate Collection, and I just opened up the disc and found the readme.
Here's a description:

"Welcome to the Icewind Dale II Bonus Disc. This disc contains eleven unique
items that have never been seen before in the Forgotten Realms. They also
have Heart of Fury mode equivalents so technically there are twenty-one
unique items. Below is where you can find them in the game. If you want to
know where they are, read on. If you would rather try and find them yourself, please stop now. We really hope you enjoy the bonus items and your adventures in Icewind Dale II. Good hunting."

Thanks. Found the readme file. Did not read the spoilers. Thank you for not posting them.

Does bring up a question though. If you're playing for the 1st time without a walk through, how would you know when you come across these items?

I mean you know you loaded the bonus disk, but you have no idea what's in the game.:laugh:

Thanks again
Sonny

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 12:14 pm

I think that in your case, it doesn't really matter if you know that they're the SE items, just that you have them. After completing the game, you can always read the disc.

GawainBS: This is the equivalent of the Baldur's Gate bonus CD. A such, you can find patches that will add these items to your game.

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 1:45 pm

Crenshinibon wrote: GawainBS: This is the equivalent of the Baldur's Gate bonus CD. A such, you can find patches that will add these items to your game.

Thought as much when I read DW's post. Thanks for confirming it.

sonny · Post by **sonny** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 1:47 pm

My Party, any thoughts?

Before I get to far into the game I thought I would post my party and see what you guys think.

1. Aasimar Male LG
Paladin of the Helm
14-12-18-3-13-20

2. Human Male LG
Monk of the Broken Ones
16-18-18-3-18-3

3. Gold Dwarf Male TN
Battleguard of Tempus
18-12-20-3-16-7

4. Human Female NG
Druid
13-18-18-4-18-5

5. Drow Male NE
Rogue
11-20-15-19-10-5

6. Tiefling Male TN
Diviner
9-18-18-20-10-3

I'm concerned rather or not I have enough tanks.
I would also like to know if any of these characters should be multi-classed and if so to what and at what level.
Also I've never played with the AI turned on. Since the rules are a little different here, should I leave it off for this game also?
I know there will be differences of opinion on this, but as always any and all comments will be appreciated.

At this point, I'm just getting ready to leave the docks, so starting over is not a problem. It's just that I feel I've missed something in creating my party.

Sonny

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 2:19 pm

In general: odd stats = bad; even stats = good. 13 in a stat gives a +1 bonus, as does 12; 14 gives +2.

1. Paladin: Swap STR & CHA. You need to hit and damage things. Give him one extra point of WIS.

2. Monk: Swap him for a Barbarian Shield Dwarf 18-16-20-3-18-1, since monks are bad. Very bad. Use a twohanded weapon with the barb.

3. Battleguard is a caster, so raise his casting stat (WIS) to the max. Drop CHA for it. Turning undead is useless.

4. Druid is ok.

5. Drow: lower WIS, make sure that he has 20 INT and give him 16 CON. 15 CON is a wasted point, since it's the same as 14 CON. After one level of Rogue, take all his levels in Wizard and use his high INT to buy thiefskills. (Open Lock, Search, etc.) He's a backup caster, mainly for buffs.

6. Take a Sorcerer instead of a Wizard: they get more spells per day, and it takes a while before you find the scrolls for the Wizard. If he is Human, max CHA, CON & DEX, dump the rest, leave WIS at 10 and some STR for carrying. If he is an Aasimar, put INT at 12, so you can max both Concentration and Spellcraft (the latter for the elemental damage feats.)

Personally, I'd take a Bard instead of the Barbarian, but if you feel better with more tanks, go for Barbarian.

kmonster · Post by **kmonster** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:56 pm

Your party is sufficient to beat the game, the essentials are covered. You could min-max a little more for more power, but it's not necessary.

Paladins (and monks) refuse to take rewards. So having one as charismatic spokesperson is dangerous.
If you mix-in 4 fighter levels you'll be able to specialize in a weapon for extra 2 damage, but the paladin special abilities will suffer.
I'd consider taking 13 dex for some feats or taking 8 dex (can be boosted with cat's grace to the cap for heavy armor) and 18 strength.

Be aware that monks do about the same damage with weapons as with fists (at levels 1-5 a 2-handed axe is definitely more effective), warriors gain BAB faster. The monk's strength is the defense. Use spells like mage and spirit armor on him. Don't multiclass.

The battleguard would benefit from 13 dex and 18 wis, but hardly from 7 instead of 1 cha. It doesn't matter if you can turn 1.4 or 1.7 rounded down to 1 undead. Don't multiclass.

Extra strength would help the druid more than int and cha. Don't multiclass and raise wis as much as possible.

19 int isn't better than 18 and if you raise it to 20 later you'll have less skill points as if you had 20 directly at the start. Since you obviously don't want to do physical damage (11 str) multiclassing with mage is the best idea (this will also allow to cast mage armor at your monk and your diviner early in the game and ghost armor later). The points in wisdom are wasted, lowest con and biggest ECL penalty mean very few hitpoints. Int is the casting stat.

For your diviner raise only int at level up. 2 extra dex wold help more than 7 wis and 2 cha together. Don't multiclass.

Tanking shouldn't be a problem with your party, the first 4 characters can do this well, even the last 2 can tank if they cast protection spells first.

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 1:30 am

Just want to emphasise that you only find wizard spell scrolls much later then that you can cast those spells. That, coupled with having potentially two Wizards, can be frustrating. Since most of the time your main arcane caster will be casting the same spells anyway, there's hardly any downside to a sorcerer in IWD2. (Granted, they get slightly slower access to their spells, but see the scrolls issue.)

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 2:06 am

It's because of the scrolls/spell progression issue for arcane casters, that I always have a druid.
As in IWD1, druids have some excellent spells, and they advance quite rapidly.

This is one area where I feel BG2 does come up a bit shy in contrast, IWD druids are *much* more powerful.

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 2:48 am

dragon wench wrote:It's because of the scrolls/spell progression issue for arcane casters, that I always have a druid.
As in IWD1, druids have some excellent spells, and they advance quite rapidly.

This is one area where I feel BG2 does come up a bit shy in contrast, IWD druids are *much* more powerful.

IWD1 & 2's Druid are quite different, though...

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 3:07 am

Very different, and personally, I don't think that the IWD II druids are worth leveling after you reach a good form, such as dire panther, and even then, they really struggle on HoF mode. Druids would probably be my second most favorite class, next to bards, and I think that Baldur's Gate II represents them the best from the roleplaying point of view.

The spells that the druid gets are comparable to those of the cleric, more limited even, so their shine is the ability to manipulate their abilities and resistances, which is great in normal mode, but as I've sad before, they have severe problems in HoF as while shapechanged, I find them being barely able to muster 40 AC (and that's with arcane as well as divine buffs and my rendition of the "best" equipment for that type of character).