is a melee only party viable?

[nokturn]

Hello again,

I'm creating yet another PC for yet another run. This time I'd like to go all melee because I've realized I don't really like all this spell-casting and buffing stuff. I'd rather be butt-kicking for goodness. So, this time I'd like to have a party that's on a crusade. On a crusade against evil in general and against undead, magic-users, Irenicus and evil Bhaal spawns in particular.

So the premises are:

- melee fighters only
- good aligned party (lawful good where possible)

First things first: The PC

I'm determined that he's gonna be a paladin. I'm not sure yet which kit to choose. Either Undead hunter or cavalier. Both classes have their advantages but which one do you reckon would be better suited for this party? I'm favoring the Undead hunter at the moment because I feel he better suits the theme of the party.

I'd like him to wield a shield because there are some nice ones that could compensate for the lack of magic users in the party and because I've never really had a character using a shield. Weapon proficiencies would go to sword and shield style, long swords (adjatha the drinker, the equalizer, dragon slayer, daystar), maces (for the mace of disruption), and bastard swords (for the purifier in ToB).

The rest of the party would be:

- Keldorn: you really need an Inquisitor in a crusading-blinded by religion-fanatics-burn everyone that doesn't agree with your ways party. Plus, his True Sight + Dispell Magic would come in handy and he could wield Carsomyr.
- Minsc: as I said "butt-kicking for goodness". 'Nuff said. Altough I'd change his class to Barbarian because I feel it suits him better. Oh, and I'd be using SK to change his weapon proficiencies to flails and warhammers for the FoA + CF. --> the end justifies the means
- Valygar: he would be changed to wizard slayer because, again, I feel it suits him better. He will be using Celestial Fury + Belm.
- Mazzy: she's a maybe. Altough she would fit well into this party I don't really see a need for her. She'd be nice for some ranged support with the short Bow of Gesen though.

That would be all. Anomen, given his character and background, would fit in nice but he's a cleric so he's disqualified.
Traps will neither be disarmed nor dodged. This party will walk right in them and trigger them and take the punishment as a test of will imposed on them by the deity that wants them to set out on a crusade against all those heathens.

So, basically, my question is: will this party have a chance to make it trough SoA + ToB on Insane and what will be the most challenging fights? Would you change anything? What would be the best tactic? My plan was to get to Watcher's Keep asap to get a wand (or several) of spell striking. I reckon this would make some of those fights a lot easier.

Well, thanks for your opinions.

[kmonster]

Undead hunter is better than cavalier.
Mazzy is the perfect melee tank with the AC bonus for 18 dex and the halfling saving throw bonuses.

[koz-ivan]

i'd include anomen as he does fit your theme, and having a healer in the party allows for campfire healing.

pc would def be an undead hunter - the immunity to level drain alone is decent.

making either of these choices allows for minsc to go back to maces & two handers + anomen w/ flails. alternately the pc could focus on flail + shield.

i'd avoid putting any proffs into sword & shield style, it just doesn't add much.

likewise don't overlook axes - you get early elemental damage, and some returning missile weapons.

---

the wands might be nice but not needed, keldorn's dispel + holy avenger should make short work of casters, not to mention beating on them w/ the foa.

[wise grimwald]

NPC kits allows you to change Anomen to a fighter/cleric and have specialisations too, (Cleric of Lathander, Helm etc.) I think that you could also change him to something completely different.

I think that it is that mod that makes Mazzy a Truesword of Avoreen. I like that kit!

[galraen]

NPC kits allows you to change Anomen to a fighter/cleric and have specialisations too, (Cleric of Lathander, Helm etc.) I think that you could also change him to something completely different.

I think that it is that mod that makes Mazzy a Truesword of Avoreen. I like that kit!

Name that mod and provide a link please fellow wrinkly!

There is one glitch I do abuse when playing a Cavalier Paladin, I specialise in axes, a Paladin of any type has to love Azure Edge.

[wise grimwald]

This is where you find NPC kits:

NPC Kit Pack

It does indeed include Truesword of Arvoreen for Mazzy and various kits for other NPCs.

Allowing Imoen and Nalia to be adventurers makes them better at trap removal and opening locks.

Read the Readme for details. I like it.

[Ode to a Grasshopper]

Hello again,

I'm creating yet another PC for yet another run. This time I'd like to go all melee because I've realized I don't really like all this spell-casting and buffing stuff. I'd rather be butt-kicking for goodness. So, this time I'd like to have a party that's on a crusade. On a crusade against evil in general and against undead, magic-users, Irenicus and evil Bhaal spawns in particular.

So the premises are:

- melee fighters only
- good aligned party (lawful good where possible)

First things first: The PC

I'm determined that he's gonna be a paladin. I'm not sure yet which kit to choose. Either Undead hunter or cavalier. Both classes have their advantages but which one do you reckon would be better suited for this party? I'm favoring the Undead hunter at the moment because I feel he better suits the theme of the party.

I'd like him to wield a shield because there are some nice ones that could compensate for the lack of magic users in the party and because I've never really had a character using a shield. Weapon proficiencies would go to sword and shield style, long swords (adjatha the drinker, the equalizer, dragon slayer, daystar), maces (for the mace of disruption), and bastard swords (for the purifier in ToB).

The rest of the party would be:

- Keldorn: you really need an Inquisitor in a crusading-blinded by religion-fanatics-burn everyone that doesn't agree with your ways party. Plus, his True Sight + Dispell Magic would come in handy and he could wield Carsomyr.
- Minsc: as I said "butt-kicking for goodness". 'Nuff said. Altough I'd change his class to Barbarian because I feel it suits him better. Oh, and I'd be using SK to change his weapon proficiencies to flails and warhammers for the FoA + CF. --> the end justifies the means
- Valygar: he would be changed to wizard slayer because, again, I feel it suits him better. He will be using Celestial Fury + Belm.
- Mazzy: she's a maybe. Altough she would fit well into this party I don't really see a need for her. She'd be nice for some ranged support with the short Bow of Gesen though.

That would be all. Anomen, given his character and background, would fit in nice but he's a cleric so he's disqualified.
Traps will neither be disarmed nor dodged. This party will walk right in them and trigger them and take the punishment as a test of will imposed on them by the deity that wants them to set out on a crusade against all those heathens.

So, basically, my question is: will this party have a chance to make it trough SoA + ToB on Insane and what will be the most challenging fights? Would you change anything? What would be the best tactic? My plan was to get to Watcher's Keep asap to get a wand (or several) of spell striking. I reckon this would make some of those fights a lot easier.

Well, thanks for your opinions.

This is the most awesome party idea in ages. Level 1 NPCs might be helpful - these days I never play without it.
Just a couple of suggestions:
Minsc should totally be a barbarian (as a general rule), but I'd keep him as a two-handed weapon user. Swords not words!
Make your PC a Cavalier (just deck him out with sword and shield rather than investing the skill points in the style, putting proficiencies in S&S style is a waste in BG2) and have Mazzy as a vanilla Paladin or Undead Hunter so she can still use shortbows. She's totally worth having for the interactions with Valygar and Keldorn alone.
Make Valygar a Wizard Slayer/Thief multi with no skills in Find Traps or Open Locks.
With Level 1 NPCs Anomen can be turned into an Undead Hunter dual-wielding flails (FoA and Defender of Easthaven is a better bet than Crom Faeyr).

Lastly, I wholeheartedly suggest the Zap Brannigan voice set for your PC. Sorcerer's Place - Baldur's Gate 2 Soundsets

[nokturn]

This is the most awesome party idea in ages. Level 1 NPCs might be helpful - these days I never play without it.
Just a couple of suggestions:
Minsc should totally be a barbarian (as a general rule), but I'd keep him as a two-handed weapon user. Swords not words!
Make your PC a Cavalier (just deck him out with sword and shield rather than investing the skill points in the style, putting proficiencies in S&S style is a waste in BG2) and have Mazzy as a vanilla Paladin or Undead Hunter so she can still use shortbows. She's totally worth having for the interactions with Valygar and Keldorn alone.
Make Valygar a Wizard Slayer/Thief multi with no skills in Find Traps or Open Locks.
With Level 1 NPCs Anomen can be turned into an Undead Hunter dual-wielding flails (FoA and Defender of Easthaven is a better bet than Crom Faeyr).

Lastly, I wholeheartedly suggest the Zap Brannigan voice set for your PC. Sorcerer's Place - Baldur's Gate 2 Soundsets

Hehe, thanks for your opinions. I've already installed The lvl1 Npc Mods and changed Anomen to Undead Hunter. I really wanted to have him in the party, he fits so well.

Btw, I'm in love with the Zap Brannigan voice set . Too bad I can't put a Kiff voice set on Anomen :laugh:.

I've never had so much fun with a party, It's the first time I really role-play a party and it's a blast. For example I let Viconia burn, she's an evil drow and therefore must be purified by fire....

Most astonishing though is that the hardest fights are not against mages, Keldorn usually rips them apart, but against strong melee fighters. Without any means to protect myself or to disable/slow them, some are quite tough.

Firkraag put up one hell of a fight against this party whose only tactic is CHARGE.

[nokturn]

I thought I'd give you a little update on the crusade party. Frankly, I'm a little disappointed, as the party turns out to be too strong It's hardly a challenge.

Although the party seems grossly unbalanced at first glance (they all need the same kind of items and have the same way of dealing damage while cruelly lacking any buffs) they just rip through any enemy in seconds by now. The start was a little slow but now I've done all the quest in Atkathla and around, cleared WK and finished the Underdark and got access to HLA's and it's been a world of pain for the drow...

Enemy spellcasters die in a matter of seconds against Keldorn + Valygar (as a pure wizardslayer) while they are still wondering where all their protections might have gone to. Melee fighters are having trouble as well while four or five strong fighters clobber them with +4 or +5 weapons at 10 attacks per round whilst being protected by ACs of -10 or lower + Hardiness + a deep HP pool.

The only opponent I wasn't able (yet) to beat was Demogorgon. I've tried a dozen times or so but I couldn't figure out a way to beat him. But then, at the time I was facing him I didn't have HLAs so I decided to follow Minsc's advice and come back with bigger swords.

[Hamster ranger]

In the Underdark did you disguise as Drow or just crusade through and kill all the drow? On the way back you should wipe out that nest of thieves on the docks.

[galraen]

Mmm, I love me a hamster kebab!

[nokturn]

In the Underdark did you disguise as Drow or just crusade through and kill all the drow? On the way back you should wipe out that nest of thieves on the docks.

My PC is a paladin of the most noble order of the radiant heart. There's simply no way he would disguise as a drow and sneak around in their filthy impure city

It was, of course, the crusade option (Yes, I know I missed a lot of XP + quests but as I said, I'm roleplaying this time, there was no other option).

The thieves are next on the list . Btw, is there a way to deal with Renal Bloodscalp without having Arkanis Gath wipe out my entire party?

Butt-kicking for goodness all the way.

[galraen]

The thieves are next on the list . Btw, is there a way to deal with Renal Bloodscalp without having Arkanis Gath wipe out my entire party?

Only by editing him in SK, which in my honest opinion isn't cheating, but counter-cheating.

[Hamster ranger]

Only by editing him in SK, which in my honest opinion isn't cheating, but counter-cheating.

What is SK?

[galraen]

Shadow Keeper a game save editor for Shadows of Amn.

It not only allows you to edit game saves, but .cre (creature) files as well. So you could edit all of the Arkanis Gath files (there are several) to get rid of his cheat items, such s the ring that prevents him from being killed, and the shortsword that deals instant death and reduce his number of attacks to a legal level etc., etc., etc..

[Hamster ranger]

Shadow Keeper a game save editor for Shadows of Amn.

It not only allows you to edit game saves, but .cre (creature) files as well. So you could edit all of the Arkanis Gath files (there are several) to get rid of his cheat items, such s the ring that prevents him from being killed, and the shortsword that deals instant death and reduce his number of attacks to a legal level etc., etc., etc..

Yeah I figured that out, only I couldn't edit for some reason, I didn't know you could use it to edit a non playing NPC

[bonemn]

I like your style

Do you still get the nightmares from Irenicus, cause I think he´s got wet trousers from nightmares your party is giving him

[Philos]

Really cool that you did this. Had crossed my mind but I figured I'd run into something somewhere that would foul it up and I'd get stuck. Glad it worked. Out of curiosity, have you done the Twisted Rune?

[nokturn]

Yes I did. Actually it wasn't all that hard. I had already done WK + Underdark and visited them just before the final encounter with Irenicus when my whole party was pretty high lvl and had HLA's. By this time they all had really low Saving throws and awesome resistances from their gear, HLA's...etc. As I already said, casters don't put up much of a fight against this party, especially against Keldorn. The toughest fights were strong melee fighters because I lacked the ability to make one char completely immune against their attacks and have him tank them. For example the Fire Giants in Yaga Shuras lair were way tougher than for the magic-heavy party I played with before.

Furthermore, once a fighter-only party hits lvls around 20 they kinda loose steam because they don't get any stronger after that, whereas casters just begin to gain their full potential at these lvls.

[Philos]

I can easily why giants (especially the bigger ones like fire giants) would be tough. With all their hit dice and strength bonuses they get so many pluses on their to hit roll, you'd have to be somewhere around AC -30 just to have chance for them to miss. I may be exaggerating a bit (but not much) :laugh: