DW rogue: bard or duelist?

[Crenshinibon]

To the same effect I decimated them with a solo mage and a two handed warrior. Like I said, how are they with large creatures such as the High Dragon or the Broodmother?

[Scottg]

To the same effect I decimated them with a solo mage and a two handed warrior. Like I said, how are they with large creatures such as the High Dragon or the Broodmother?

But how many opponents are like these?

Basically use them where you can and where you can get the most value from them. The cheapest ones (spring traps) really are the most useful overall. (..I always use Sten for my trap-making.)

Use your other methods for those more difficult opponents.


My expectation is that traps wouldn't work for either opponent.. but I could be wrong. ..might be able to disable those tentacles of the Brood Mother.


Hmm, the High Dragon does land several times in areas that you can trap.. :mischief:



They most certainly *would* work against the legion of Darkspawn on the tower near the High Dragon.. and certainly the Darkspawn near the Broodmother.

[Crenshinibon]

But see, the reason why I ask you about those characters (primarily the High Dragon from Origins), is that it's one of the toughest foes in the game and a Cunning rogue would have a fair amount of difficulty fighting that beast face to face, not only sustaining huge damage, but losing the handy backstab bonus.

When soloing, I usually do quests in a certain order to collect money for the items that I need, don't traps delay these items?

Also, if you're fighting a hard hitting boss with minions, like Bronka, wouldn't the minions set off the traps before your main target (since you may need to kite while your abilities cool down)?

While the dragon does fly and land, I'm curious if it's immune to some effects, as certain enemies were in Baldur's Gate.

[Stworca]

To the same effect I decimated them with a solo mage and a two handed warrior.?

Solo mage (NOT arcane warrior)
Then solo 2h warrior.. But what does it matter in Easy Age : Origins? (no offense meant, i still get your point)

Branka is actualy a boss that is doable with traps alone. Easily kite'able

But regardless of how usefull traps can be at times, everything else is faster and more viable, on every boss. On every fight.

Hmm, the High Dragon does land several times in areas that you can trap..

Well you could also hide in the narrow passage where he can not enter and shot him to death with crossbow.

[Crenshinibon]

It was a traditional mage, but it did have the the Arcane Warrior specialization for the purposes of wearing Felon's Coat.

I primarily used the the resistance reduction hexes (since they stack), Spirit Bomb, Virulent Spirit Bomb, Stinging Swarm, Curse of Mortality and the Entropic Death combination.

I never knew about the passage. I just hide from the dragon behind a rock, some ways out of the arches.

As for the solo warrior, that's for everyone that doubts their strength, since a lot of people love the dual-wielders. : D

[Stworca]

Caulthrien ; Well i used kiting across the entire universe as mage + cc when doing 180 turns, as even with high defense she still scored every hit. Killed by dot's

As 2h warrior it was.. the easiest fight i ever had. Stun, stun, knockdown, knockback, stun, knockdown, knockback, stun, stun..

[Crenshinibon]

Really? I didn't really have to kite her at all.

I just used paralysis explosion at the start, layed Vulnerability and Affliction Hex on Ser Cauthrien and used Entropic Death on her as well as a group of archers and the mage. This took over 75% of her health. I used Force Field within the fog so that everyone would stay there and get damaged by it, all the while my abilities cooled.

After another paralysis explosion, I finished her and the others off with my DPS spells. I had around 140 or so defense with the Glyph of Warding.

[Scottg]

But see, the reason why I ask you about those characters (primarily the High Dragon from Origins), is that it's one of the toughest foes in the game and a Cunning rogue would have a fair amount of difficulty fighting that beast face to face, not only sustaining huge damage, but losing the handy backstab bonus.

When soloing, I usually do quests in a certain order to collect money for the items that I need, don't traps delay these items?

Also, if you're fighting a hard hitting boss with minions, like Bronka, wouldn't the minions set off the traps before your main target (since you may need to kite while your abilities cool down)?

While the dragon does fly and land, I'm curious if it's immune to some effects, as certain enemies were in Baldur's Gate.

Oh, you are under the impression that you need a cunning rogue. Not correct.

You need all 4 stealth talents, all 4 device talents, and a *net* 30 in cunning. (..at it's maximum.) You don't need to put any skills into the trap-making group, that can be taken care of by an unused party member.


Spring Traps are "dirt" cheap. I tend to spend a large portion of my "earnings" from the first 1/4 of the game (minus the amount spent on backpacks from the quartermaster), once I get to Lothering (..from Inn owner). About 300 Trap Triggers for around 7 gold tends to last a good long while, (..particularly because I won't even have access to making traps at that point, nor the ability to use them.) They are only slightly more expensive from the Camp merchant.

With the Branka fight there is enough area that you can put your traps in various locations and lure opponents, particularly Branka.

Yeah, I wonder about the High Dragon as well - never tried it against either dragon because I didn't think it would work.

[Crenshinibon]

I was under the impression that you were arguing the validity of a cunning solo rogue, which I was arguing against.

I don't think it is possible to play one as just a backstab rogue (which I liked to do in BG), since enemies heal as soon as you retreat, not to mention that they follow you for quite a while. The reason why I was asking about traps, was because I was assuming that you wanted to hold an opponent, while moving around to its' back in order to quickly finish them off with the bonus damage from the Assassin specialization.

[Scottg]

I was under the impression that you were arguing the validity of a cunning solo rogue, which I was arguing against.

I don't think it is possible to play one as just a backstab rogue (which I liked to do in BG), since enemies heal as soon as you retreat, not to mention that they follow you for quite a while. The reason why I was asking about traps, was because I was assuming that you wanted to hold an opponent, while moving around to its' back in order to quickly finish them off with the bonus damage from the Assassin specialization.

Archer + Trap setting.. more of a Ranger I guess, but without the Ranger class and summon (..still the same Dualist/Bard combo). I suppose you could have your dog with you and have it hold-back until you are ready to release him to join the action. (..wouldn't work at every location though, like at the high dragon.)

My basic argument with trap use was that a stealth archer could still be useful in "tight" quarters where the character normally wouldn't be as useful.

[Crenshinibon]

I think the concept of a ranger is great, however, I dislike the fact that you need to call the summon every time you change areas, but more importantly, the fact that the summon steals some of your experience, when last-hitting an opponent.

Archers do not need traps due to high damage and defense, and since the release of Awakening, cunning archers are no longer viable.

[SirSponge]

To the title of the thread. It really depends on your personal style of play. If you're going for more of a defensive approach I would go with duelist/bard. Personally, I always play my Rogue Assassin/Bard. My point spending is 20 Strength for high tier armor, 40 or so Dex, and the rest into Cunning. High Cunning effects both damage with the Assassin spec, and the Bard songs. With high enough Cunning you can have crazy damage in conjunction with Song of Courage. Mix it up a bit .

[Scottg]

With high enough Cunning you can have crazy damage in conjunction with Song of Courage. Mix it up a bit .

Song of Courage damage modifier is:

Cunning of 30 = 3 extra damage per hit.

Cunning of 70 = 5 extra damage per hit.

Now this doesn't include the fact that it works on ALL of your party, nor does it add-in the increased damage inclusion due to better critical and attack numbers.

Critical modifier would be:

Cunning of 30 = 4% increase.

Cunning of 70 = 9% increase.

Attack modifier would be:

Cunning of 30 = +4.

Cunning of 70 = +9.


Still.. not exactly what I'd call "crazy damage".



Note that the Attack bonus at lower levels will likely result in higher damage per second than the damage itself.. because you'll hit more often against most opponents. The reason is that at lower levels (..less than 12), many of the opponents are roughly equal in level to your character, and sometimes higher - which makes them harder to hit, resulting in fewer hits over time. (..sadly this results in similar damage numbers between "Shield" Warrior builds, Archer builds, and a decent Spell power Mage build just using a staff - because the staff never misses.)

Because Song of Courage's attack bonus scales with Cunning, it's attack bonus will be closer to +4 during these levels than +9. Conversely a Duelist's "Dueling" automatically adds +10 to attack. Generally making it a better damage per second class at lower levels.. at least for your character, if not the party.

Of course the harder the opponent, generally the better the higher attack number build will be.


This does NOT factor-in with a Flanking bonus from a proper backstab. A proper Flanking attack adds +15 to the attack numbers. With Combat Movement it's +20 (..and a wider area of flanking attack). That significantly alters the effectiveness in combat, but it can be difficult to obtain and often it takes *time*.

It also does NOT factor-in with an attack from Stealth..