The Internet is the root of all evil

Weasel · Post by **Weasel** » Sat Jul 14, 2001 9:38 pm

Originally posted by fable:
It's not necessarily a true vision of Communism; the specific does not automatically imply the general. But it is a true vision of Chinese cultural life, which for all its extraordinary achievements (and I mean that) has simply never placed a high value on human life or dignity.

I know it isn't a true vision. From what I have read their hasn't every been a true communist country. With human nature the way it is, I doupt there will be one in the way it was written to be.

I found this while looking up information on China and the Olympics.

Well essentially it boils down to who got it right - Adam Smith or Karl Marx. I think Smith was more the realist and Marx more of the idealist.
I think as long as you have a class structure in society, the capitalist model (however exploitive) is the one that will be in place. If you can somehow eliminate class (ironically, even the 'communist' governments simply replaced the bourgeosie/nobility with a powerful and relatively wealthy beaurocrat class), then communism could work. I just don't see this happening.

Capitalism may have its evils, but its the end result of how humans have developed over time. Wealth and power have always been unequally distributed in recorded history, what would make that stop now?

I kind of agree with this statement.

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Sun Jul 15, 2001 5:23 am

Originally posted by loner72:
I don't find it offensive; it's just grossly inaccurate.

I have to learn somehow and if it is by making totally inaccurate statements then so be it

Darkpoet · Post by **Darkpoet** » Sun Jul 15, 2001 5:27 am

Sleep, I fined you grossly offensive.

Have a Guinness my friend.

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Sun Jul 15, 2001 5:51 am

Originally posted by Darkpoet:
Sleep, I fined you grossly offensive. Have a Guinness my friend.

You fined me grossly offensive what exactly does that mean?

I also find you grossly offensive, Thanks for the Guiness

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Sun Jul 15, 2001 1:46 pm

(This whole post is in my opinion please no one take any offense, if you have a problem be logical in your response)

@MO on Aetheism.

I am an individual who trys to look at things logically and dissasemble a problem in order to come up with an answer, i look at Christianity and God etc, and it does not make sense, there are several problems one being the need for conflict, every reference to Lucipher etc is one of attack and war. Christians beleive they are under attack from satan at all times. I am a peaceable soul who does not anger quickly and i am not someone who easily resorts to any conflict, so this aspect is of no interest to me, in fact this situation turns me away from Christianity. I generally live a Christian life, i beleive the value systems have merit. I do not cuss without reason i do not use the word Jesus as a cuss word.

The logical person looks at things differently to the Spiritual person, an aethiest calls the conflicts of lust etc ones baser instincts vs Guilt and conscience, whereas Christians beleive it is The devil attacking them and God reassuring them of the wrong path they are about to take in theory these are the same emotions and the same conclusions just different terminology.

I Also get quite annoied by the non-acceptance of other religions, i listen to the music of common and the Roots, i am going to assume the viewers of SYm have little knowledge of these artists - they produce Hip-Hop music - now these artists beleive in allah and mohammed, they are exceptionally spiritual artists, but if i told a Christian they beleived a different religion to them, these artists would be stigmatised. They beleive the same morale viewpoint but can not connect because of semantics, this IMO is a great problem that a lot of these issues revolve around.

Now to how all this reffers to aethiesm, as i see it a lot of aethiests beleive in a god or are at least spiritual but can not accept certain doctrines or arguments that arrive when analysing God and the Bible. This should not be an issue and people should accept each other for what they are. So he is an aethiest we should not malign him for that fact we should 'embrace' him, and hope that we bring some happiness in this world that features so little.

Oh well that is the end of my opinions, they are confused and in somewhat of a stream of conciousness style. Blame Roddy Doyle

BTw Eminem never did answer my question

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Sun Jul 15, 2001 1:55 pm

mr Sleep, I very much agree with your post (except for the fact that I do not believe in and gods, of course

)and I'm happy to see you are such a tolerant and open minded person.

Especially today

Eminen hasn't replied to any of us yet, I hope he does.

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Sun Jul 15, 2001 2:01 pm

Originally posted by C Elegans:
mr Sleep, I very much agree with your post (except for the fact that I do not believe in and gods, of course )and I'm happy to see you are such a tolerant and open minded person.
Especially today

Eminen hasn't replied to any of us yet, I hope he does.

Somedays i feel the need to flame someone who offends other people without any need, if someone offends me i feel very little but be-littling others is not acceptable to me.

@Eminems answer, But mine was a simple answer, is he naming himself after an average to bad rap artist or is there another answer?

scully1 · Post by **scully1** » Sun Jul 15, 2001 2:31 pm

Originally posted by Mr Sleep:
The logical person looks at things differently to the Spiritual person

Interestingly enough: when I began my graduate program in biblical studies, I was required to take one credit of philosophy, since I didn't have much in undergrad school. I asked the program director what course I should take, and he instantly said, "Take a logic course."

@all in general: I am a Christian, and so-called "Christians" who relish in sending non-Christians to hell make me thoroughly sick. Unfortunately, for some reason which I don't understand, these are the kind of "Christians" most people seem to have had contact with. But that is not the essence of the religion. But apparently no one believes that. It seems to me that most people around here believe that Christians are a pack of hateful, intolerant, stupid/illogical, repressed Nazis. Now if anyone here has met people like that calling themselves Christian (and obviously many have), I feel 1.) sorry for you, since you haven't seen a true portrayal of the faith; and 2.) ashamed to call my own self a Christian, if people like that are going around saying they are Christians.

I know there are a lot of people who abuse the religion, but don't stereotype us and make generalizations.

People around here are always complaining about how intolerant Christianity is (apparently under the impression that the religion is still somewhere back in 468 AD). But by bashing another religion and/or its adherents, aren't you doing the very thing you accuse them of? Being closed-minded, not listening when someone tries to explain, clinging to your own ideas about a faith you don't even believe in (ideas which are usually founded on nothing more than assumptions and Hollywood stereotypes)?

It seems as if the last acceptable prejudice (in our culture/world in general) is against Christianity. It's fine and even fashionable to rip Christianity to shreds and say that its tenets are "illogical" and its followers are medieval throwbacks. Now why is this all right?...I've had it with this attitude.

Now if you'll all excuse me, I'm going to confession, so I can be absolved of all my sins so I can go out and do them all over again this week. Then there's the book-burning to attend, followed by the heretic-burning party. We're burning a Wiccan, two Muslims, and a Jew this evening. I'm bringing the matches. Being a Christian is so much fun!!

[ 07-15-2001: Message edited by: loner72 ]

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Sun Jul 15, 2001 2:40 pm

Oh dear...i seem to have offended Loner with my comments, i apologise to you Loner if i have in someway caused you distress, address me specifically if you have a problem with any of my post i will explain why i came to this conclusion.

My opinion can be shaped and changed i am not a rock.

I have never met a Christian who is accepting of other religious beleifs, maybe this is my problem not a wider issue.

Again i apologise, and i hope i have not in someway affected your posting on GB this would not be good at all

I rarely post in this type of thread because of this exact reason.

scully1 · Post by **scully1** » Sun Jul 15, 2001 2:54 pm

Originally posted by Mr Sleep:
I have never met a Christian who is accepting of other religious beleifs, maybe this is my problem not a wider issue.

Well now, that would seem to be the source of the problem.

I am a devout practicing Catholic (the absolutely WORST kind of Christian!!

). I have a copy of the Koran on my bookshelf and read it frequently. I find it has great wisdom to share, especially in its emphasis on Allah as "the Compassionate, the Merciful". I have several books of Zen meditations and also find great wisdom there. Christians who smugly believe they have a monopoly on the Truth are mistaken. I'm taking a course in the biblical wisdom literature right now (Proverbs, Job, Ecclesiastes), and am learning that much of the wisdom in the Old Testament has roots in the wisdom literature of Egypt, a pagan culture. Now this is not the same thing as blending all kinds of beliefs together; it's just acknowledging that God has given wisdom to all traditions in their own way, and His test is to see if we can transcend our petty prejudices and learn from one another. The wisdom of God dwells in everyone indiscriminately.

I walked into a Catholic bookstore in California once, and I saw a bookmark that read "This is a Catholic home. No literature of other religions is required." And I thought, how sad. How much they're missing, the people whoo think like this.

I realize many Christians would disagree with me on this (*awaiting the brimstone from Eminem*

). But if you want to know what Christianity is all about, read what Christ Himself said about who will get into heaven, in Matthew 25:31-45. Also look up Christ's response to the pagan Roman centurion in Matthew 8:5-13. This Roman was a pagan, and Jesus didn't tell him to change his religion. In fact He said this pagan, AS a pagan, would get into the Kingdom of God (a state of being, not a place) before the "believers".

All I know is, if I get to the Pearly Gates and St. Peter tells me that my dad isn't there because he wasn't a Christian, I'm turning around and I'm leaving. Why would I want to belong to such an exclusive country club?

[ 07-15-2001: Message edited by: loner72 ]

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Sun Jul 15, 2001 2:58 pm

If i am not mistaken that is due to him accepting he is a sinner and letting God into his life.

So your not exactly a Southern baptist then?

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Sun Jul 15, 2001 3:06 pm

@Loner, i heard a rumor that Jesus denounced organised religion and this peice of scripture was removed by the egyptians, any truth in this in your opinion?

scully1 · Post by **scully1** » Sun Jul 15, 2001 3:08 pm

LOL, not exactly

That passage could be interpreted that way, because of the centurion's saying he wasn't worthy for Jesus to enter his house. But Jesus never says "So when will I see you in synagogue?" Cross-ref John 4:46-54, also the Samaritan woman in John chapter 4. There, Jesus isn't only talking with a heretic, He's talking with a woman!!!! That was unacceptable behavior at the time.

Even if the centurion is seen as a repentant sinner, the big picture is, this religion is supposed to be about love, not condemnation and intolerance. Jesus never condemned anyone.

scully1 · Post by **scully1** » Sun Jul 15, 2001 3:12 pm

Originally posted by Mr Sleep:
@Loner, i heard a rumor that Jesus denounced organised religion and this peice of scripture was removed by the egyptians, any truth in this in your opinion?

Hmm, I've never heard this. I think it might be an example of people enjoying making Jesus out to be whatever they want, and saying that the old stuffy Church People covered up the fact that Christ was actually some free-loving hippy. They think they can get away with this because so many ancient materials have been lost or never found.

The closest I can think of is the passage where Jesus rails on the scribes and Pharisees for their emphasis on human tradition above God's commands. But He never condemned organized religion; He Himself was a faithful Jew.

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Sun Jul 15, 2001 3:14 pm

Originally posted by loner72:

He's talking with a woman!!!! That was unacceptable behavior at the time.

I can see why

[q]Even if the centurion is seen as a repentant sinner, the big picture is, this religion is supposed to be about love, not condemnation and intolerance. Jesus never condemned anyone [/qb]

I quite agree. Shame things get tainted.

scully1 · Post by **scully1** » Sun Jul 15, 2001 3:16 pm

Originally posted by Mr Sleep:
I can see why

Ohhh, you're soooooooo funny

scully1 · Post by **scully1** » Sun Jul 15, 2001 3:19 pm

Originally posted by Mr Sleep:
I quite agree. Shame things get tainted.

Yes. But I'm not saying that Christianity as a religion doesn't get what Jesus was all about. Lots of people make a distinction between Jesus and Christianity. That need not be the case. It depends on how one lives the faith. But the faith itself isn't to blame for the taint.

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Sun Jul 15, 2001 3:19 pm

Originally posted by loner72:

The closest I can think of is the passage where Jesus rails on the scribes and Pharisees for their emphasis on human tradition above God's commands. But He never condemned organized religion; He Himself was a faithful Jew.

It's a conspiracy theory, to do with a Saint Thomas, of course my Christian friends do not beleive it because they maintain that the Bible is exaclty how God wants it.

scully1 · Post by **scully1** » Sun Jul 15, 2001 3:21 pm

The Gospel of Thomas? It's Gnostic, and Thomas the apostle didn't write it. I've never read the Gospel of Thomas so unfortunately I can't answer this completely...

Brink · Post by **Brink** » Sun Jul 15, 2001 3:24 pm

Hiya loner

I think I'll just lurk in this thread while you two discuss about Christianity