Strange creatures

Georgi · Post by **Georgi** » Mon Feb 04, 2002 11:56 pm

Originally posted by Sailor Saturn
Add in the reasoning mentioned by CE and it all adds up. Or, at least, it does to me.

It does, but I hadn't read that when I posted

Sailor Saturn · Post by **Sailor Saturn** » Tue Feb 05, 2002 12:02 am

Originally posted by Waverly
I appreciate that you labeled this as speculation, but why link the bible to the classical myths in the first place? It seems to me like linking Moby D!ck to Catcher in the Rye and speculating that Holden was Ishmael’s son. It can’t be proven wrong, but there’s no real reason for the connection to begin with.

‘What if’ scenarios make interesting thought experiments, but can’t even cross over to being hypotheses without being based on more objective evidence.

Yeah, I know. That's why I tend to be wary to state the speculation at all.

It was a verse in the Bible that brought the idea to my mind, though. That's probably why I link it to the bible, along with the fact that I believe the Bible. As to whether or not the verse I referred to is any kind of evidence that my speculation is true, I don't know. After looking back at the verse recently, it seems it was more of a catalyst to help me speculate the possibility than any kind of actual proof.

Dottie · Post by **Dottie** » Tue Feb 05, 2002 12:03 am

My personal favourit among mythological creatures is the "Huldra".

Huldra is a increadibly beautifull woman living in the forest riding an elk. She can give good hunting luck in exchange for sexual favours. Hovewer, when a man have had sex with a huldra she can call on him at will, and then he cant help himself but must imediatly leave wife and kids and run straight to her. Ofcourse the Huldra then give birth to human childs. Young men who are just about to get married are very suceptible to Huldras powers.

Now.. imagine the origins of that one

Sailor Saturn · Post by **Sailor Saturn** » Tue Feb 05, 2002 12:07 am

Originally posted by Dottie
My personal favourit among mythological creatures is the "Huldra".

Huldra is a increadibly beautifull woman living in the forest riding an elk. She can give good hunting luck in exchange for sexual favours. Hovewer, when a man have had sex with a huldra she can call on him at will, and then he cant help himself but must imediatly leave wife and kids and run straight to her. Ofcourse the Huldra then give birth to human childs. Young men who are just about to get married are very suceptible to Huldras powers.

Now.. imagine the origins of that one

I was bored.

GandalfgalTTV · Post by **GandalfgalTTV** » Tue Feb 05, 2002 12:09 am

People are discussing something, and both mysthical and objective evidence pop up.

@SS: You're lucky you live on the other side, if you didn't I'd be hitting on you like a mad man. Oh wait.. I'm already a mad man, and hit... oh nevermind.

Waverly · Post by **Waverly** » Tue Feb 05, 2002 12:12 am

Fair enough, Miss Saturn. You must spend a great deal of time thinking about the bible. Be sure to take a look at the search engine I linked for you in the science thread. Do you think there is a reason you would seek to explain or otherwise link disparate myths with the bible? Even a carpenter doesn’t attempt to fix every problem with his hammer, to brutalize the old metaphor.

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Tue Feb 05, 2002 12:14 am

Originally posted by Morlock
@SS: I think by mentioning mytholegy your going off topic, I mean gods (or even suposed gods) aren't exactly "Strange creatures".

To me, it qualifies just fine, my idea of "strange creatures" when posting this topic, was aimed to include just about any mythological creature that might or might not exist, so gods are fine even I don't wish a theological discussion here

Accepted religions becomes mythologies/folklore when we don't believe in them anymore

@Dottie: Yep, the Huldra, what a nice excuse. "Naecken" is a similar male version I believe, isn't he supposed to play his fiddle to "hypnotise" young girls to have sex with him?

Dottie · Post by **Dottie** » Tue Feb 05, 2002 12:15 am

Originally posted by Sailor Saturn

I was bored.

Big ROFL if im reading you correctly. I was definatly thinking in a completly different direction - more towards a male cause actualy

- but if you say that was how it started il take your word for it.

Dottie · Post by **Dottie** » Tue Feb 05, 2002 12:23 am

Originally posted by C Elegans
@Dottie: Yep, the Huldra, what a nice excuse. "Naecken" is a similar male version I believe, isn't he supposed to play his fiddle to "hypnotise" young girls to have sex with him?

Yes, although those girls were mostly drowned after that. Apearently it is much more dangerous for females to fall for such temptation.

GandalfgalTTV · Post by **GandalfgalTTV** » Tue Feb 05, 2002 12:28 am

Originally posted by C Elegans

To me, it qualifies just fine, my idea of "strange creatures" when posting this topic, was aimed to include just about any mythological creature that might or might not exist, so gods are fine even I don't wish a theological discussion here Accepted religions becomes mythologies/folklore when we don't believe in them anymore

And they make the best.

I studied a bit of Greek mythology during art classes, and there are great stories and characters in there. But it's all quite human, I don't think I can explain it very well in here. But most of it is, based on the human. It's emotions, fantasies. Human nature. Every day life. But blowing it up enlarging it. Or taking parts of it and creating something new from it. Linking these things with things that can't be explained at the time, thunder etc. Putting things that can't be controlled into the hands of those newly created as their responsibilities.

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Tue Feb 05, 2002 12:31 am

Originally posted by Dottie

Yes, although those girls were mostlydrowned after that. Apearently it is much more dangerous for females to fall for such temptation.

But of course

During the Victorian age females were believed to get EP (Epilepsia) out of sexual satisfaction, well, better than drowning I suppose.

fable · Post by **fable** » Tue Feb 05, 2002 12:42 am

Originally posted by Dottie

Yes, although those girls were mostly drowned after that. Apearently it is much more dangerous for females to fall for such temptation.

To the other side are the Rusalka, East Eurppean spirits--either beautiful water elementals bound to lakes, or female suicides, drowned and cursed--who lure young men into the water with their sexual favors, and then drown them.

Sailor Saturn · Post by **Sailor Saturn** » Tue Feb 05, 2002 12:48 am

Originally posted by Waverly
Fair enough, Miss Saturn. You must spend a great deal of time thinking about the bible. Be sure to take a look at the search engine I linked for you in the science thread. Do you think there is a reason you would seek to explain or otherwise link disparate myths with the bible? Even a carpenter doesn’t attempt to fix every problem with his hammer, to brutalize the old metaphor.

*shrugs* It's just the wya my mind works. It's not a concious thing. But I do get a lot of satisfaction, perhaps too much satisfaction, out of piecing things together to figure something out or come up with a new possibility. The earliest example of this I can recall is figuring out the "car" most likely comes from the word "caravan." While it's generally simple things, they're things most people don't take the time to think about.

@Dottie

Sailor Saturn · Post by **Sailor Saturn** » Tue Feb 05, 2002 12:51 am

Originally posted by fable

To the other side are the Rusalka, East Eurppean spirits--either beautiful water elementals bound to lakes, or female suicides, drowned and cursed--who lure young men into the water with their sexual favors, and then drown them.

Also the Sirens(?) in Greek Mythology, luring sailors to crash their boats upon the rocks. Or Vampires seducing young women(or female vampires seducing young men?) and drinking their blood.

fable · Post by **fable** » Tue Feb 05, 2002 1:02 am

Originally posted by Sailor Saturn

Also the Sirens(?) in Greek Mythology, luring sailors to crash their boats upon the rocks. Or Vampires seducing young women(or female vampires seducing young men?) and drinking their blood.

Or the succubi and incubi of medieval Christian folklore, low level demonic spirits sent to tempt both married people and single ones into sinning in their sleep. I recall reading somewhere that it was considered a relatively light sin by the RCC and received a small penance, although some of the harsher Protestant denominations (like the Puritans) considered it a sign of possible possession. Interesting stuff.

Dottie · Post by **Dottie** » Tue Feb 05, 2002 1:19 am

Originally posted by fable

To the other side are the Rusalka, East Eurppean spirits--either beautiful water elementals bound to lakes, or female suicides, drowned and cursed--who lure young men into the water with their sexual favors, and then drown them.

My analysis was flawed then, although not so ambtious

I know this type of creature is in abundance everywhere, In scandinavia we have in addition to the Huldra, the Mara (red haired, sneak into mens houses at night), the Skogsrå (also dwells in forests but kills its victim), Älvor (dancing nice, Leave victims brain dead) and Vitror (often dwells in chalets, seduced both sexes)

It is quiet obvious that human nature was the same then as now

Anyway, to get back to the subject, I think there are a very large part of mythology that has its origins in either common problems like above or more rare occurances like the scandinavian Myling, wich were unbabtized children killd by their mothers.

Aegis · Post by **Aegis** » Tue Feb 05, 2002 6:19 am

I believe that all mythology is linked, or connected the religions of the world. Look at the prime characters in many of these tales. A lot of them induce powers that can be only considered magical (Sirens with their call) or some of that use extrodenary skill at one thin (Sex, dancing, etc.). Many of these things can be traced back to one religious document, or the next. Over the years, after their intiial induction to society, people expanded and made a lot of these stories up, whether from bits of fact, or pure fiction. A lof it also holds the basis for modern fantasy. But of course, We can't forget the ones with actual basis. Things like Nessie, the Yeti, and Big Foot, could all possibly be real (The other day I heard about a Nellie sighting off the coast of Japan

Looks like Minerva is doing some training of aquatic creatures...

). But I think the greatest mythology, and I'm gonna get flamed for this, but it's true, is in the bible. Though it is a wonderful tool for those of the faith, it has many great stories in it. Stories of things like Diaspora of the Jewish people, and the slaying of Goliath. These are the stories that much of the myth and fantasy we have are the roots off.

Maharlika · Post by **Maharlika** » Tue Feb 05, 2002 6:52 am

Tell ME about it!

Originally posted by Sailor Saturn

Exageration of tales about really tall people? Especially if they, themselves, are rather short. To me, anyone over 6' is a giant.

Ditto.

Seriously speaking, I won't be speaking of the Bible. (No, Aegis, at least you won't be getting flames from me since I know and understand that you're not a believer in the first place.

) Rather, I would just like to point out certain things about the gods in the Greek and Roman mythos.

It's quite interesting to note that for all their supposed powers and abilities, they still have very much human traits such as jealousy, envy, hubris, courage, wisdom (or the lack of), etc.

They seem to be just that --- humans with very superior albeit, exagerrated powers, like some superhero or villain. Zeus/Jupiter is said to be the leader of the pantheon yet he certainly does not strike me as "virtuous enough" to command real respect and admiration.

But then again that's just me coz I tend to have a different perception of what a god has to be.

BTW, what can you say about the platypus? Isn't it certainly something like a mythical creature? A mix of a duck and a beaver?

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Tue Feb 05, 2002 7:33 am

Originally posted by Aegis
But I think the greatest mythology, and I'm gonna get flamed for this, but it's true, is in the bible.

The question is if you assume you are going to get flamed, why post it? Feel free to discuss on PM if needs be

Also what you are stating is from your point of view, it isn't necessarily "True", it is your opinion on this example.

fable · Post by **fable** » Tue Feb 05, 2002 7:44 am

Rather, I would just like to point out certain things about the gods in the Greek and Roman mythos.

It's quite interesting to note that for all their supposed powers and abilities, they still have very much human traits such as jealousy, envy, hubris, courage, wisdom (or the lack of), etc.

Yes, but this is a laterday redaction, largely from a very sophisticated (some would say, too sophisticated) Roman aristocracy who had ceased to believe in such "silly little things" as religion. (And I say that with all intentional irony.) Even the Greeks in their comedies ridicule the Gods, but it should be remembered that the comic plays satirizing Greek gods were actually parts of religious festivals, and were regarded as "earthing" rituals necessary to return the community to an everyday state of mind after the exaltation of the tragedies and the rites.

Go back far enough, and you see fewer and fewer human traits and the gods of most peoples, and more of a pure manifestation of qualities untouched by the peccadillos of their subjects. For instance, despite the very human-ness of the various demi-gods that populate India's great religious epic, the Mahabharata, in the end the message is not in totality unlike that of the Book of Job: Krishna must be obeyed, despite whatever losses his followers serve, because he *is* all, and any deviation from The Plan will be disastrous. Ties of honor, love and friendship are irrelevant at that point.

The austerity of this vision, separated from the casual intimacy of "human" gods, can also be seen in many of the icons (painted images) of the extremely conservative Russian and Greek Orthodox Churches. Their images for the most part were human-looking, but without any expression: a means of conveying the "otherness" of deity which dates back to the very early years of the Christian Church, and has nothing to do with tenderness or comfort.