PC vs. PC battle for supremacy - ends speculation once and for all

Rail · Post by **Rail** » Fri Mar 02, 2001 1:36 am

This is my favorite debate subject, here. I still don't understand why people take this personally, though.

Many people are claiming that others aren't respecting the intelligence of a player controlled sorceror, yet their strategies involve stupid fighters that run headlong into attacks, The fighter-type advocates usually seem to have sorceror opponents who simply stand there and cast spells. Remember, there are counters too all our strategies. Here are a few.

Staff of Magi- while it does give invisibility, remember the Book of Infinite spells. It's most useful spell, IMHO, is True seeing, and it is useable by thieves and fighters. However, this only gives them *one* true seeing spell, so the window of opportunity is short.

Why were so many people bringing up contingincies when debating between an assassin and sorceror? One backstab from an assassin and the mage is dead. Period. Contingincies wouldn't matter in this fight.

An assassin's biggest advantage is surprise. A duel is a planned fight, not a surprise. The assassin is at a *huge* disadvantage, here, when fighting a mage. Too bad, too, since assassins are one of my favorite classes.

True seeing doesn't work against hide in shadows when the person is wearing cloak of non-detection. Most smart players would have a number of items to use from inventory.

Keep these debates going. Don't take them personally. I really like talking about the strengths and weaknesses of each class and of different strategies to use. Someday, someone will figure out a forum for these duels.

[This message has been edited by Rail (edited 03-02-2001).]

Kovi · Post by **Kovi** » Fri Mar 02, 2001 2:48 am

I have copied my last post from another thread and will continue any duel discussion only in this thread.

Invibility: as said earlier True Sight can be avoided with the Spell Immunity: Divination.
The Spell Book of Infinity is nice, but only one spell per day can be casted. Nevertheless
I keep the opinion to disallow the re-equip of Magi.

Project Image: I recommend to use neither Project Image nor Insect Plague and also not abuse Simulacrum (as per the "hardcore rules").

Initial actions: I think that spellcasters could have their inital denfenses and initial
summoning before the battle (but those spells have to be cast). Or we should give the
warriors some round penalty to sharpen his sword and take on his armor.

Limiting items: it is really not realistic to compare pure characters, but we should somehow limit the available items (otherwise any mage could "counter" a sorcerer saying he have collected a lot of high level scrolls). I recommend that only quick item slots could be used. It seems we have agreed upon that no 9th level spells/scrolls are allowed. Now I would even say that no 7th or higher level scrolls can be used.

Flail of ages: very good point. The additional damages "hit through" stoneskin and disrupt spellcasting. An improved hasted character could hit about 4 times per round which cause 12 separate minor hits. Neither single specific protections nor even Mirror Image help, just give a little chance to cast (by catching some of the damages).
The best defenses are either Protection from Elements + Protection from Acid or a Protection from Magic weapons. Mages should think about memorizing those before a specific duel, but a sorceror probably haven't learned these spells. Maybe they could keep a scroll, but that could be breached. I wouldn't say that now a pure fighter could win against a Sorcerer. But this possibility may shift the balance in favour of mixed characters (fighter/mage, ranger/cleric, mage/cleric).

Pure(?) fighting skills: in my opinion magical enhancements (but probably no defenses) like Tenser's, Improved Haste, Holy Power also have to be considered.

Sly · Post by **Sly** » Fri Mar 02, 2001 2:50 am

I'd like to see tag team...or 2 against 2..

Kovi · Post by **Kovi** » Fri Mar 02, 2001 3:02 am

Yes! Teams against teams (with 2, 3 or even 6 PCs) is also interesting and could be very different from solo duels. Maybe someone could open a spearate thread.

TheDude · Post by **TheDude** » Fri Mar 02, 2001 5:45 am

good idea!!!!! 2 VS 2
sorcerer and monk VS assassin and paladin

or something like that

TheDude · Post by **TheDude** » Fri Mar 02, 2001 5:50 am

better yet 2 whole party's stand over eachother then u can also see who is better imoen/jan/aerie (so that discussion is over too

)
and u can test what party would be the best in the game !
i think a more evil party is better because then u have Korgan and (my favorite) Edwin

Vehemence · Post by **Vehemence** » Fri Mar 02, 2001 6:20 am

I'll be willing to go for that 2 vs 2! Just as long as I get the assassin and someone like Rowdin controllong the Paladin. That monk would be toast against any decent backstab, and the inquisitor (assuming this, it could be other paladin types) would mince the sorcerer. After the assassin finished with the monk a successful backstab on the Sorcerer after Paladin dispelled the magic would be game over

Of course I'm not that arrogant to preach that this is exactly how it would go down. If Giles the sorcerer or Pat Bou were in control of the Sorcerer, then it'd be a lot more difficult. But I believe the assassin/paladin team would win. But yea, I'm biased, so are a lot of you out there too. Maybe someone can forward this whole thread to bioware and ask them to include a duel feature in the expansion pack...

Oooh, a horrible thought... a level 40 assassin and level 40 paladin against a level 40 Sorcerer and level 40 monk... YIKES! I don't even want to touch that one!

ROWDIN · Post by **ROWDIN** » Fri Mar 02, 2001 6:40 am

what about my 9,20 berserker celric who can
dispel just has well has my paladin has he's
got more levels than a 17 level mage. he dispelled all of the red dragons spell protections in one hit . Also he's got -17 amour class -9 thaco 5 stars in the hammer
5 stars in the flail. he's a lot better than a paladin the boy is real good trust me. yours rowdin.

ROWDIN · Post by **ROWDIN** » Fri Mar 02, 2001 6:48 am

what about my 9,20 bersreker celric beening a higher level spell caster than a 17 level mage he can dispel all of the spell protections of any pc mage. also his got -17 amour class -9 thaco 5 stars in the hammer and flail with amour of faith on his 25% resistant to all meelee and magical damage
.this boy can fight and cast yours rowdin

Vehemence · Post by **Vehemence** » Fri Mar 02, 2001 6:49 am

Ok Rowdin, you convinced me! You can take your 9/20 berserker/cleric and my assassin and we'll RULE THE WORLD!!!

Well, we'll beat a sorcerer and a monk at least

Gruntboy · Post by **Gruntboy** » Fri Mar 02, 2001 7:08 am

My level one Kobold Shaman Character will butcher all of your super characters like hogs, then defile your rotting corpses

Bill · Post by **Bill** » Fri Mar 02, 2001 7:14 am

There have been 2 Vs 2 duels in Mplayer.com.Too bad most players used hacked characters,with custom items etc.

ROWDIN · Post by **ROWDIN** » Fri Mar 02, 2001 7:24 am

vehemence let lose the dogs of war.
yours rowdin.

Gruntboy · Post by **Gruntboy** » Fri Mar 02, 2001 7:34 am

You better hurry up and do something. My level 1 Kobold Shaman is equiped with a cloak of sewer stench, a staff of arse-scratching and a hunk of halfling-leg. He's already killed 3 entire parties of level 33 1/2 parties and is now defiling their corpses.

<Defile, fiddle, cut, fiddle>

Hurry! Before he gets you!

ROWDIN · Post by **ROWDIN** » Fri Mar 02, 2001 7:41 am

can i watch
yours rowdin.

Gruntboy · Post by **Gruntboy** » Fri Mar 02, 2001 7:50 am

Sure you can. Oh look! Its another level 67 10/20ths party.

<Party looks at small Kobold Shaman>

Skin renching, bowel churning, brain splitting, blood spouting RRRRRRRRRIPPING! noise.

Aggghk!...

<desecrate, fiddle, defile>

[This message has been edited by Gruntboy (edited 03-02-2001).]

ROWDIN · Post by **ROWDIN** » Fri Mar 02, 2001 7:58 am

does your kobold shaman where a crouchless
bodystocking if so. hello!.
yours rowdin

[This message has been edited by ROWDIN (edited 03-02-2001).]

Gruntboy · Post by **Gruntboy** » Fri Mar 02, 2001 8:02 am

What?! No. He wears skanky kobold shaman underpants. With lice and fleas. From all the level 22 corpses he's defiled.

Sicko

ROWDIN · Post by **ROWDIN** » Fri Mar 02, 2001 8:08 am

why did the chicken cross the road.

Pat Bou · Post by **Pat Bou** » Fri Mar 02, 2001 8:18 am

Originally posted by Rail:
Why were so many people bringing up contingincies when debating between an assassin and sorceror? One backstab from an assassin and the mage is dead. Period. Contingincies wouldn't matter in this fight.
[This message has been edited by Rail (edited 03-02-2001).]

And why are so many thief players think a mage, spec. mage, sorceror or druid would walk around without Stoneskin or Ironskin always on? One backstab attempt of the thief and one skin out of 8 is gone. Period. Continguencies have nothing to do with this. It's only later in the duel that the continguency would kick in. I agree that it may be futile at that point (if you hit me, even with continguency, I'm dead). But then, I have 8 rounds to act and react before my stoneskin fails. And I can cast another one before the first drops... just to be sure I'm never caught naked.