Best NPC party, and why!!

Astafas · Post by **Astafas** » Sun May 26, 2002 1:05 am

Re: my evil party

Originally posted by Col Hiram Berdan
My group consisted of :
Me/Bard
Kaigain/Fighter
Viconia/cleric
Edwin/Mage
Shar-Teel/Fighter-Thief(dueled her thief at level 3)
Monteron/fighter-thief

the group bashed their way through most of the game with ease except monteron kept dying on me perhaps need a basher pc and use eldoth as a bard or Xzar as a second mage.
but i was able to stay in the evil role play...shar-teel became quite a formible thief

No need for a PC fighter if you have Kagain. To dual S-T is very nice, have done it myself several times. A good archer (Coran or Kivan, or S-T if you don't dual and change her profs) would make life easier for you, since bows are extremely powerful. To have two mages in BG1 is one to many IMO - an extra fighter is better. Unfortunately bards aren't really good in BG1. Eldoth is very cool, though.

dios · Post by **dios** » Sun May 26, 2002 2:40 pm

From the beginning are bows VERY powerful...but when your'e in chapter 7 they are less powerful... from the beginning did I use bows all the time, but when i got some good armor and weapons and shields i could'nt tke the time to switch between bows and shields i combat... right now i'm just backstabbing everyone to death.

Astafas · Post by **Astafas** » Sun May 26, 2002 10:39 pm

Originally posted by dios
From the beginning are bows VERY powerful...but when your'e in chapter 7 they are less powerful... from the beginning did I use bows all the time, but when i got some good armor and weapons and shields i could'nt tke the time to switch between bows and shields i combat... right now i'm just backstabbing everyone to death.

Maybe you should try having one NPC using a bow and *another* one going into melee. I disagree that bows should be less powerful that late in the game - the better the AC of the enemies, the more important it gets with a low THAC0 (an archer will have the lowest) and a high rate of fire.

VonDondu · Post by **VonDondu** » Mon May 27, 2002 6:01 pm

I've tried several different combinations of NPC's. In the end, it didn't really matter who they were if I always played them the same. Most people tend to choose a group that has a well-balanced set of skills---melee, ranged weapons, thieving & backstabbing, cleric spells, and mage spells. I think this is important, and apparently, so does everyone else. The only question is how much of those skills you have and how they are distributed among your party members.

Most people have a full party of six. That has its advantages, but playing with a smaller party also has its advantages, assuming that you are willing to remove the experience cap and let them gain all the experience they fight for. I have found that two 10th level characters can accomplish just about anything that six 5th level characters can accomplish. (I'm not talking about having them duke it out in a duel; I'm talking about handling the encounters they face in the game.)

I just finished playing the game with a half-elven Ranger/Cleric and Imoen, a Thief Dualled to a Conjurer. Astafas said, "Maybe you should try having one NPC using a bow and *another* one going into melee," and that's pretty much what I did. Before Imoen regained her thieving skills, I made use of the spells Find Traps and Knock. If I really needed a Thief, I let Coran join the party temporarily. His archery skills also came in handy. My main character played the role of tank most of the time (I buffed her up with spells and potions before most of the big battles), while Imoen used spells, missile weapons, and wands. Imoen also did a lot of backstabbing after she pickpocketed one of Drizzt's scimitars. My main character healed the party after the battles were over. Since I only had two characters, I used their abilities to the max. (As opposed, for instance, to arming six party members with ranged weapons and mowing down every enemy before they even reached the group.) I did a lot of reloading, and I used my knowledge of the game to do a lot of strategic planning and make things go smoothly (I had played it twice before), but ultimately, my party's survival depended on the skills of my characters, and they did very well.

If I wanted to play BG again, I think I'd make the main character an elven Fighter/Thief and create a character like Aerie from BG2 to accompany her (a gnomish Cleric/Illusionist). That way, the main character could do all of the backstabbing, thieving, and melee combat, while "Aerie" handled all of the spellcasting. The way that multi-class characters progress is a lot different from the way that single-class and dual-class characters progress, but with only two party members, they advance in level pretty fast, regardless.

I'm not saying that my party is better than anyone else's, and I'm not saying that everyone should play with a party like mine. I've played with "standard" parties of six and enjoyed it, but I also enjoyed the alternative.

Astafas · Post by **Astafas** » Tue May 28, 2002 12:55 am

Originally posted by VonDondu
If I wanted to play BG again, I think I'd make the main character an elven Fighter/Thief and create a character like Aerie from BG2 to accompany her (a gnomish Cleric/Illusionist). That way, the main character could do all of the backstabbing, thieving, and melee combat, while "Aerie" handled all of the spellcasting.

You should of course go fetch Quayle (Aerie's mentor in BG2), who is an extremely cool little gnomish Cleric/Illusionist. Since you normally can't get him until Chapter 5, you'd have to use GateKeeper to transport yourself to his location and back again.

Nice post, BTW!

VonDondu · Post by **VonDondu** » Thu May 30, 2002 3:04 am

Thanks for the compliment, Astafas.

FWIW, if I wanted to jump to another area, I'd use the CLUAConsole command -- e.g., CLUAConsole:JumpToArea("AR0900"). I've done my share of cheating, but I don't know if I'd go out of my way to acquire Quayle.

Sometimes, if there's an NPC that I'd really like to have in my party, I roll up a character of my own to use as a model and then edit the NPC to match him or her. I think I'd rather just create an "Aerie" of my own. The funny thing is, one of the standard voice sets sounds a lot like Aerie (it might actually be the same voice actress), so it's perfect. The only problem is, Gatekeeper won't let me make her an elf without turning her into a Cleric/Mage instead of a Cleric/Illusionist, so she has to be a gnome (with a beard). Oh, well.

Astafas · Post by **Astafas** » Thu May 30, 2002 3:29 am

I find GateKeeper better for transport as you can direct a specific location of the area. That way I get straight to the NPC without exploring to much.

Well now, Aerie is a Cleric/Mage, not a Cleric/Illusionist...

I guess you could extract Aerie's sound files from BG2 with Winbiff and then create a new soundset for BG1 but I'm not sure how.

VonDondu · Post by **VonDondu** » Thu May 30, 2002 4:03 am

I've already extracted the NPC portraits from Shadows of Amn and used them in BG1, including Aerie's, but I don't know how to make copies of the soundsets. I wonder if anyone has already done that?

I know that Aerie is a Cleric/Mage in BG2, rather than a Cleric/Illusionist, but since she is a special case anyway (elves can't normally become Cleric/Mages), why not let her be the same multi-class as her mentor? It makes sense to me. ShadowKeeper will let you make her a Cleric/Illusionist in BG2, but Gatekeeper has a problem with that particular multi-class. If you try editing Quayle, for instance, Gatekeeper will make him a Cleric/Mage, even though he's a gnome. So I can't do any editing with him in the party. (Including jumps to new locations.)

Astafas · Post by **Astafas** » Thu May 30, 2002 5:09 am

Originally posted by VonDondu
I know that Aerie is a Cleric/Mage in BG2, rather than a Cleric/Illusionist, but since she is a special case anyway (elves can't normally become Cleric/Mages), why not let her be the same multi-class as her mentor?

If you try editing Quayle, for instance, Gatekeeper will make him a Cleric/Mage, even though he's a gnome. So I can't do any editing with him in the party. (Including jumps to new locations.)

Why not? Because illusions come naturally to gnomes, not to elves. Isn't her class in BG2 proof enough of that?

Yeah, I've also noticed that. But he doesn't change class as long as you don't choose his "page" in GateKeeper. So you could edit all other NPCs and move your party around as much as you want to.

VonDondu · Post by **VonDondu** » Thu May 30, 2002 6:16 pm

Originally posted by Astafas
Isn't her class in BG2 proof enough of that?

Her class in BG2 is proof that she breaks the rules concerning races and classes.

Astafas · Post by **Astafas** » Fri May 31, 2002 12:41 am

Originally posted by VonDondu

Her class in BG2 is proof that she breaks the rules concerning races and classes.

That's the worst argument I've seen in ages. As you can clearly see in BG2, she is a Cleric/Mage and not a Cleric/Illusionist, which prooves she doesn't have an inclination towards illusions in particular.

On a sidenote, she meets Quayle after BG1, so she couldn't very well have gotten her tutorage at the start of BG1.

VonDondu · Post by **VonDondu** » Fri May 31, 2002 4:01 am

Originally posted by Astafas
That's the worst argument I've seen in ages...

Really? Well, you should see some of the arguments I've seen lately. They're not a pretty sight.

Actually, I think the reason why Bioware didn't make Aerie a Cleric/Illusionist in BG2 is the same reason why I can't make her one in BG1: Gatekeeper won't let anyone do that.

But seriously, I only said the character I created would be like Aerie. Obviously, it wouldn't actually be Aerie. The real Aerie is still in the Circus somewhere. And I already said my character would have to be a gnome (with a beard), or else she couldn't be a Cleric/Illusionist. So I don't mind saying "you win".

Astafas · Post by **Astafas** » Fri May 31, 2002 5:29 am

Originally posted by VonDondu
Really? Well, you should see some of the arguments I've seen lately. They're not a pretty sight.

Actually, I think the reason why Bioware didn't make Aerie a Cleric/Illusionist in BG2 is the same reason why I can't make her one in BG1: Gatekeeper won't let anyone do that.

Well, maybe I was exaggerating a bit...

Bioware isn't limited by GateKeeper. Actually, Bioware has nothing to do with GateKeeper at all. Let me assure you that the creators of BG2 could easily have made Aerie a Cleric/Illusionist, had they wanted to.