Making the most of your hit die

[NightFallMyriad]

Has anyone noticed that you can re-roll your hit die when you level by cancelling the level up and clicking to level up again?

I first noticed this around level 9 or 10 when I had to reload between levels due to a run-in with a nasty electrical trap. Anyway, the first time I had leveled, it listed my hit points gained as something like 12, but when I tried it the second time, they were listed as only 7 points gained.

So I got to thinking, if you continuously re-roll your level up hit die, you could essentially always be gaining dx hit points, where x corresponds to your class (10 for fighters, 12 for barbs, etc...) plus your constitution modifier, plus your intelligence modifier (not too sure about this one), plus any other modifiers like the toughness feat.

It did the math and figured that my fighter chick could be scoring 1d10 + 2 + 1 hp per level.

Damnit, I wish I'd noticed this before!!!

So I went back (being a powergamer and all... ) to try and see if this was true all the way along. Turns out that the first coulple of levels always have you making the most of you hit die. So as a fighter, you always get 10 hp, plus the modifiers.

Then I gave up and decided that it wasn't worth it and that I'd powergame later after I figured everything out and knew how to build the uber character...

*Ahem*

So can anyone confirm this? Is it true that you can be making the most of your hit die?

[skinfax]

Yes, it is true. You will get max HP al lvl 1-3, and from lvl 4 you can reroll your hitdice.

[Archimedez]

Yes

I reroll until I get at least near maximum hit dice,
because I think that the random hit dice is the most stupid thing in d&d ever.
Imagine if you have bad luck you can roll a barbarian that has LESS life than a druid or even a rogue!
It makes no sense at all that you choose a hardy Conan fighter and end up with a wimp regardless of your skills.
And a total newbie to d&d may have good luck and rolls same life as my babarian but as a druid + animal companion + spells.

[Astafas]

Re: yes

Originally posted by Archimedez
I reroll until I get at least near maximum hit dice,
because I think that the random hit dice is the most stupid thing in d&d ever.
Imagine if you have bad luck you can roll a barbarian that has LESS life than a druid or even a rogue!
It makes no sense at all that you choose a hardy Conan fighter and end up with a wimp regardless of you skills.
And a total newbie to d&d has good luck and rolls same life but as a druid + animal companion + spells.

This is hardly a question of being experienced or a newbie now, is it? And a newbie probably needs more HPs in order to survive than an experienced player would, anyway. But I agree on the random HD being stupid. I actually though the roll was maximized on normal difficulty level just as in BG2 until I recently discovered my mistake. Fortunately, I've had at least decent rolls so far, being around 75 % of maximum for my Ranger/Rogue. Hope there is a NeverKeeper/NightKeeper out soon...

[Astafas]

I've searched the Bioware forums for a way to change your HPs, should you already have made a "mistake" or should you not want to reroll. It doesn't seem possible via the Debug Mode, which I find rather strange...

On a sidenote, have you any idea how lucky were are to have such serious posters and good moderators on these forums? I won't head over to the Bioware boards more than necessary...

Bioware board regarding cheat codes

[Trix]

If I were making the game, I'd preroll all hitdice at character creation so as to avoid exploits like these.

Either that, or I'd take the rounded up average, for example, a Cleric gets d8, the average of which is 4.5, rounded up is 5. So the Cleric would get +5 +bonuses HP per level.

But rerolling is just ... crap ... really.

[Astafas]

Originally posted by Trix
If I were making the game, I'd preroll all hitdice at character creation so as to avoid exploits like these.

Either that, or I'd take the rounded up average, for example, a Cleric gets d8, the average of which is 4.5, rounded up is 5. So the Cleric would get +5 +bonuses HP per level.

But rerolling is just ... crap ... really.

This is just one of the very remarks you'd find on the Bioware board, even though Trix, I give that, expresses him-/herself far more polite.

Let everyone play the game as they see fit. In BG2 there is even a function for getting maximum rolls, since the developers have understood that several bad rolls in a row can take away the fun of an otherwise interesting character.

[Kameleon]

Hehe - in BG and BG2 you had to reload every time you wanted to get a new HD reroll...good thing I found out this wasn't the case in NWN 'cos reloads are so slow

And boy, those Bioware people sure do know how to alienate customers. And flame. And be generally abusive. As do the rest of the people on that forum... ...I just wanna thank Buck again for however he made these forums so great

[Trix]

Let everyone play the game as they see fit.

I agree with you in principle, and it certainly doesn't effect me what people do in singleplayer, nor is it any of my business; however, using such an exploit only harms that player's fun in the long run by making the game too easy. But perhaps they're playing on max difficulty where mobs have x2 HPs and do double damage or something.

In BG2 there is even a function for getting maximum rolls, since the developers have understood that several bad rolls in a row can take away the fun of an otherwise interesting character.

Actually, according to David Gaider, that wasn't the reason they included that option. I distinctly remember him saying that they put it in solely because of the number of BG1 players who said on their boards that they always rerolled for max. This was also the reason they included the option to have arcane spellcasters automatically scribe spells ... because a lot of BG1 players said they always rerolled if they failed to scribe. So David Gaider said that if players were going to do those things anyway, they may as well just include the option and have done with it rather than having players reloading saved games billions of times. In other words, BioWare believed their game was balanced using the standard rules.

However! Let me be honest here ... BG2 was a difficult game, and I do remember playing on the easier difficulty level that enabled max HPs and automatic scribe success, simply, from my point of view, that this didn't unbalance the game. In the end, it's all meant to be about fun, right? If a game is too hard, or it's too easy, then personally I will change the rules to compensate.

IMHO, NwN singleplayer is perfectly balanced (except for that comment I made about the final battle) using the 'normal' difficulty (and not rerolling ). It's so well balanced that my character made her max level right at the end of the last chapter!

[Kameleon]

Originally posted by Trix
BG2 was a difficult game

You're really not a powergamer are you?

[Mathurin]

You guys are failing to see the basic reason why random hp exists in the game. Simply because this game was made to be as close to pen and paper D&D as possible, and in P&P Hit points are rolled randomly, except at first level of course. And in response to the first post, intelligence bonus has nothing to do with hit points.

[Kameleon]

Originally posted by Mathurin
You guys are failing to see the basic reason why random hp exists in the game. Simply because this game was made to be as close to pen and paper D&D as possible, and in P&P Hit points are rolled randomly, except at first level of course.

True, but in this game, when there is the possibility of reloading and trying again, as there is not with PNP (unless you have a really crap DM), there should be at least an option to turn max HP on. You don't have to do it, and obviously online you couldn't do it without exporting/importing, but with the way to cancel out of the level up process and start over it allows people to just take what is rolled, if that is their preference, or to keep trying until they have max HP. It's your choice, and I don't think that anyone else should care what you choose to do - there is a role-player's way of playing the game, and a powergamer's. You can't argue with something built into the game, just as you can't argue with someone with a BG character who starts as 18/00, 18, 18, 3, 8, 18. Live with it, and if it makes the game too easy, there is an "Insane" difficulty setting. It is hard, and I am a powergamer and so my character is very good, and I still find it hard. Or if you don't want a challenge, put it on easy, cheat your way up to max all stats and play as God, I don't care. Just have fun with the game.

[Mathurin]

Im not argueing with anyones choice to try for max hp. I was simply stating why random hp rolls were in the game.

[Kameleon]

Originally posted by Mathurin
Im not argueing with anyones choice to try for max hp. I was simply stating why random hp rolls were in the game.

Yep, fair enough. I guess my response was to everyone here, and more to those people in the thread that Astafas posted a link to... Sometimes you despair for humanity, no?

[Astafas]

Originally posted by Trix
Actually, according to David Gaider, that wasn't the reason they included that option. I distinctly remember him saying that they put it in solely because of the number of BG1 players who said on their boards that they always rerolled for max.

Fair enough: The developers understood that some players think that several bad rolls in a row can take away the fun of an otherwise interesting character.

[Mathurin]

And just on a hilarious side note to this thread, I played in a random game soon after 3rd Edition came out and removed class limitations. The DM said we all had to play odd substandard characters. The group consisted of a half-orc paladin, an elven barb(me), a dwarven wizard, and a halfling cleric with like 8 dexterity. Funny thing was because of horrible roles on my part and extreme rolls on his own, not to mention difference in racial stat mods, my elven barbarian had less hp than the dwarven wizard at every level beyond 1.

[Kameleon]

Originally posted by Mathurin
And just on a hilarious side note to this thread, I played in a random game soon after 3rd Edition came out and removed class limitations. The DM said we all had to play odd substandard characters. The group consisted of a half-orc paladin, an elven barb(me), a dwarven wizard, and a halfling cleric with like 8 dexterity. Funny thing was because of horrible roles on my part and extreme rolls on his own, not to mention difference in racial stat mods, my elven barbarian had less hp than the dwarven wizard at every level beyond 1.

ROFL!! No gnome bard then...

[Mathurin]

Don't think anyone thought of that one

[Kameleon]

Perhaps Jan would have been bearable if he had had some specific training...

[Astafas]

Originally posted by Mathurin
Don't think anyone thought of that one

Actually, in 2nd Edition, you have both the Gnomish Professor and the Gnomish Jester (I think Jan would have made an excellent Jester). All other races than Humans and Half-Elves are considered Demi-Bards.