proficiencies

firewings95 · Post by **firewings95** » Tue Dec 17, 2002 5:58 pm

there are sword and shield, two handed weapon style, one handed weapon style, and dual weild style i think.

i'm so confused. and maybe a little dumbfounded.

what weapons go with these proficiencies? (ex. crossbows)

can someone give me a list of all the weapons in the game and linked them with there proficiencies. thanks.

Impaler987 · Post by **Impaler987** » Tue Dec 17, 2002 6:20 pm

Missile weapons (bows, crossbows, darts, slings) aren't affected at all by any of those proficiencies.

Two-handed weapon style affects two-handed swords, spears, quarterstaffs, and halberds.

Sword-and-shield style is for added bonuses when wielding a one-handed melee weapon together with a shield. Pretty worthless actually, IMO.

Single weapon style works with one-handed melee weapons without a shield or second weapon. Useful for thieves and bards, who cannot use shields or dual-wield (except swashbucklers and blades).

Two-weapon style is pretty self-explanatory. Two one-handed melee weapons, one in each hand.

Oh, and you still need to put proficiency slots in individual weapons to use them effectively. These styles are no substitutes for learning individual weapons.

Numinor · Post by **Numinor** » Tue Dec 17, 2002 6:30 pm

The weapon styles are not linked to a particualr weapon.
You choose them dependent on how you use the weapon:
1) Two Handed: Better speed and increased chance of critical strike with any 2-handed melee weapon (i.e. Spear, 2-Handed Sword)
2)One Handed: AC-bonus when using a 1-handed melee weapon (Long Sword, Dagger... ), but only if you are neither using a second weapon nor a shield
3)Sword and Shield: AC-Bonus vs missile weapons if you are using a 1-handed weapon (not necessarily a sword) and a shield
4)Dual Wield: Decreases your off-hand weapon's THACO malus

The proficiencies that directly affect weapons are named after their weapons class (i.e Long Sword, Sling, Katana etc. )

firewings95 · Post by **firewings95** » Tue Dec 17, 2002 9:53 pm

ooooooooo thanks for the info. it's a shame that bows and crossbows don't get the 2 handed weapon proficiencies. i don't like that at all.

and why is it that when i try to put more proficiencies in crossbow for Jan i can't. is there some glitch to that?

Numinor · Post by **Numinor** » Wed Dec 18, 2002 3:44 am

Thats because of his class. Since he's a Illusionist/Thief, he cant put more than one "+" into anything. Only Fighters can reach Grand Mastery (+++++). Paladins, Rangers, Barbarians, Multi classed figthers and the thief subclass Swashbuckler can be proficient in a weapon (++).
All other classes (Thief, Mage, Sorceror, Bard, Monk, Cleric, Druid) are limited to one point.

garazdawi · Post by **garazdawi** » Wed Dec 18, 2002 7:15 am

which is a good choice considering that no Mage ever (except Gandalf) is a good swordfighter

fable · Post by **fable** » Wed Dec 18, 2002 8:58 am

Originally posted by garazdawi
which is a good choice considering that no Mage ever (except Gandalf) is a good swordfighter

According to whom? Offhand, I can think of many fantasy novels by different authors (The Incomplete Enchanter, The Well of the Unicorn, The Green Pearl, The Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser series, The Worm Ouroboros, for starters) whose mages ranged from good to great at swordfighting--and that's just the tip: there are easily several dozen I could list if I bothered to take the time. You youngins have to start reading something other than that endless cookie cutter stuff ground out by thirdrate hacks using somebody else's rules and worlds!

Look to the best fantasy composed over the last fifty years, and you'd be surprised at the resuts.

Phantom Lord · Post by **Phantom Lord** » Wed Dec 18, 2002 9:35 am

Indeed, Elric of Melnibone could probably be considered grandmaster in AD&D terms - at least if he wields Stormbringer.

Leonardo · Post by **Leonardo** » Wed Dec 18, 2002 12:35 pm

Elric was heavily Shadowkept... he casts spells clad in full metal plate! And the Summon Chaotic Avatar High Level Ability...

garazdawi · Post by **garazdawi** » Wed Dec 18, 2002 3:37 pm

Originally posted by fable
According to whom?

According to me

, and indeed I just realised my folly when I saw the new whhel of time book in the book store..... fighter mages make for great people and Rand Al'Thor with them

fable · Post by **fable** » Wed Dec 18, 2002 4:02 pm

Originally posted by garazdawi
According to me , and indeed I just realised my folly when I saw the new whhel of time book in the book store..... fighter mages make for great people and Rand Al'Thor with them

Don't think of the Wheel of Time as though it represents all of fantasy. Dig into the stuff that predates AD&D's chokehold on fiction. There's some superb fantasy out there made in distinctive universes that (gasp!) never even considered using anybody's rulebook.

Phantom Lord · Post by **Phantom Lord** » Wed Dec 18, 2002 6:59 pm

Well - if this turns into a fantasy literature thread, I heavily recommend "Jack of the Shadows" by Roger Zelazny.

Just forget the AD&D "hide in shadows" ability ...

Taco Magus · Post by **Taco Magus** » Wed Dec 18, 2002 7:53 pm

you know one time i tried to use my hide in shadows abilite on my boss...it did not work =\

fable · Post by **fable** » Wed Dec 18, 2002 11:05 pm

I think my favorite protagonist (note: not fighter who casts spells or mage with a sword--that's thinking inside the box) in a fantasy novel who exercises a range of skills is the hero to the Incomplete Enchanter series. He's a young scientist stuck in a government-funded hush-hush research program in Nebraska, slowly being bored out of his mind. As a result, he actually thinks that the right combination of spell attributes can send someone into an alternate universe for which the gateway is a book or mythos. He things he can find a date and some red-headed action by visiting the Irish myths,

only he miscalculates and discovers himself at the start of Ragnarok. Great stuff, as he learns to wield magical swords and discovers he has an aptitude for casting spells.

Bruce Lee · Post by **Bruce Lee** » Wed Dec 18, 2002 11:39 pm

Sounds interesting fable... Author? Title? I am always on the lookout for good reading

garazdawi · Post by **garazdawi** » Thu Dec 19, 2002 10:14 am

Originally posted by fable
Don't think of the Wheel of Time as though it represents all of fantasy. Dig into the stuff that predates AD&D's chokehold on fiction. There's some superb fantasy out there made in distinctive universes that (gasp!) never even considered using anybody's rulebook.

I just took it as an example..... I know there are several other....Belgariad...Malloreon....Elenien.....Tamuli....etc all are great books

@Phantom Lord I've read until number seven in that series.....It's great....BTW do u know how many books there really are??? or hasn't he finished writing it yet as Robert Jordan???

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Thu Dec 19, 2002 10:48 am

le sprage de camp....and i think fletcher pratt is co author....

look for the incomplete enchanter, the complete enchanter...

fighter mages are the best most cheesy class to play...sola for example, with moonbeam reward is awesomely powerful....

tho sorc kensais are better...hehhehehh

serjeLeBlade · Post by **serjeLeBlade** » Thu Dec 19, 2002 10:52 am

Originally posted by Bruce Lee
Sounds interesting fable... Author? Title? I am always on the lookout for good reading

Authors: L. Sprangue De Camp & Fletcher Pratt
Protagonist: Harold Shea
Rating: As good as the Fafhrd and Gray mouser cycle of Fritz Leiber imho (which is an "A" imho)

@Fable: what about using names in your post?

I had to read it two times before I realized what you were talking about!
In Italy taht book is called "Il castello d'acciaio"... (The steel castle).

Phantom Lord · Post by **Phantom Lord** » Wed Dec 25, 2002 11:58 am

I've never played Deus Ex, so I didn't know this - but it's a funny idea.