What's your worst dissapointment in ToB?

Quark · Post by **Quark** » Wed Aug 08, 2001 3:17 pm

I see alot of complaints about the NPCs:

Do you people realize how HARD it is to program in more NPCs?

THE JAKER · Post by **THE JAKER** » Wed Aug 08, 2001 3:19 pm

DEZ, as has been pointed out, Sarevok can be dualled to mage OR thief if you so desire...

My greatest disappointment w/ TOB is that, right when my party gets all equipped and they can really go crazy, the game's over. I wish I could take em around the countryside and do some Cheese Guild Overkill Master (no offense, NeKrOMAnceR

) on some of the fauna...

Aegis · Post by **Aegis** » Wed Aug 08, 2001 3:25 pm

LEt's just put it this way, ToB wasn't as much as everyone thought it would be...

Delacroix · Post by **Delacroix** » Wed Aug 08, 2001 3:46 pm

My problem with the items is that everywhere you can by items +3 +4, It is ok if tou found a great item with a great oponent, but buy a Yamato +4 inside a Tavern(Saradush) is ridiculous.

The game is also a quite easy, I solo a sorcerer in core rules level, only diference of the insane level is that enemys deal doble damage, as a sorcerer I connot take damage anyway(Both damage doubbled or not normaly is enouth to kill me).

But the prize goes to the linearity, especialy for evil characters is annoying. Btw a chaotic evil chararcter simply cannot roleplayng in TOB.

polaris · Post by **polaris** » Wed Aug 08, 2001 4:07 pm

Doltan,

I sort of object when someone else ways what my biggest dissapointment was with ToB.

Here are my three biggest dissapointments:

1. It is far too linear (which means for me there is little replay value). What needed to be said on this has been. I will only add that I agree with it.

2. There are far too many bugs, especially INEXUSIBLE bugs. The Solar question is an example of this. It was a stupid mistake on the part of bioware and any ethicist could (and should) have spotted it *before* the game hit the shelf.

3. Bioware's steadfast *refusal* to fix (or even aknowledge) that these bugs exist. I am not only talking about the Solar quesition but also well know (except at Bioware) bugs such as the broken Harper Plot, the haste bug, and the two-weapon wielding bug (which really hurts blades).

-Polaris

Delacroix · Post by **Delacroix** » Wed Aug 08, 2001 4:12 pm

Originally posted by polaris:
3. Bioware's steadfast *refusal* to fix (or even aknowledge) that these bugs exist. I am not only talking about the Solar quesition but also well know (except at Bioware) bugs such as the broken Harper Plot, the haste bug, and the two-weapon wielding bug (which really hurts blades).

-Polaris

What exactly you call the haste and wielding bug???

polaris · Post by **polaris** » Wed Aug 08, 2001 4:20 pm

In ToB, if you are hasted and/or us two weapons, you don't get the extra attacks you are supposed to. Also hasting and two-weapon wielding are supposed to stack. In ToB, they don't. This is fairly well known (and the bane of those playing blades). A quick perusal though the history should dredge up several threads that discuss this.

-Polaris

Delacroix · Post by **Delacroix** » Wed Aug 08, 2001 4:24 pm

Thanks

BTW I remember that is something wrong with the improved invisibility fighting bonus too.

incandescent one · Post by **incandescent one** » Wed Aug 08, 2001 5:01 pm

Solaufein didn't show up again. I mean when I saw that berk Havarian strolling through the streets of Amekthran , and Viekang ordering rounds of Cris in the Tankard Tree, and mr. "oh-captain-my-captain" showed up......

I was really hoping the turncoat drow would show up. Maybe in Sendai's Enclave, bringing a combined force of drow and surface elves, and like.... and...... oh i dunno, go to a bbq together or something.

seanthony · Post by **seanthony** » Thu Aug 09, 2001 12:34 am

For me, I guess I'd prefer it if there were about 3-5 new kits, that'd be better. Kinda like Diablo 2 (sorry for mentioning this other great game in this forum, but just to prove my point), a lot of ppl are buying D2 in order to test out the 2 new classes. Likewise, ToB should be the same.

I would also like to see the player's Stronghold play a bigger part to the story.

Erm.. and more areas please! haha.. I took literally 5-6 days to finish ToB (I'm a beginner, so IMO, that is fast! haha.. I took 2 weeks to complete SoA though).

More NPCs.. definitely. Like, a thief would be good, or even another PURE mage (specialist maybe?)... or a monk/kensai would be fun.

)

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Thu Aug 09, 2001 5:47 am

I have not even bought ToB yet, but from what I hear, my biggest gripe is going to be that Bioware didn't even bother to include the Baldurdash fixes! Do they like distributing bugs?

Originally posted by Aegis:
-XP cap is too high (Oh boy, I'll be flamed for this one...)

Here ya go.

How could it be too high? It's not as if you're forced at gun-point to reach it. If you feel characters get too powerful, that's a different issue. IMHO the Cap has been a very unsightly, artificial constraint to compensate for handing out too much XP...

Originally posted by Bloodstalker:
My biggest gripe is that it seems like you always end up fighting a whole lot of the same enemies at once, and they all "quaff a potion"....I don't know, it just irks me that everytime I go into combat everyone I am fighting is drinking.

Actually, the use of one-shot magics is a great way to increase challenge, yet reduce Monty Haulism. I use that trick all the time when DM-ing PnP. Doesn't strike me as unreasonable that someone would drink all their potions when they feel they are done for if they don't. And what self-respecting level 7 adventurer doesn't carry at least a few potions? The alternatives are:

Giving enemies a couple of extra levels. This gets really cheesy after some time. Why can a level 20 party consistently beat level 30 parties?
Giving enemies powerful weapons and armor. Monty Haul. If you're not prepared to kill off half the party, you might as well just give them the stuff.
Not buffing enemies either way. No challenge, no fun.

Originally posted by Nightfire:
While I'm at it, the inconsistency of your supposed versus your actual power also ticks me off

Well, you are a demigod. What's stranger is the fact that your party members rival your power. Except for Sarevok and Imoen, they have no excuse.

incandescent one · Post by **incandescent one** » Thu Aug 09, 2001 10:09 am

Edwin is still a better mage than your protagonist, unless your pro is a wild mage.

Nightfire · Post by **Nightfire** » Thu Aug 09, 2001 2:32 pm

@Xyx: Maybe I didn't make myself clear.

I am not complaining that the PC is too powerful. Quite to the contrary - my complaint is that she is too ordinary. Unless you install the Bhaalspawn powers freebie, all you have is the rather weak (not to mention dangerous) Slayer change, and who does ever use that? The very least they could have done is give us the BG1 powers back, maybe upgrading them in the process (Cure Light Wounds -> Cure Critical Wounds). Hell, if any game has a shameless excuse to power-up the main character, it's this series.

The story claims you're so bloody special, the most powerful of the brood, the center of the prophecy, and so on. But that is not reflected in actual combat situations, especially due to the overabundance of high-level enemies. Sure, they have to challenge the player ... the way they do it is ridiculous, though.

I wish they'd put more of an emphasis on the storyline over combat in the entire series. If fighting isn't your primary raison d'etre, you can have a character who is as powerful as she should be without causing the game to become "too easy" or "too short".

Oh yes, and I couldn't agree more with the bug situation. There is absolutely NO excuse for not using the Baldurdash fixed for old SoA bugs, at least.

fable · Post by **fable** » Thu Aug 09, 2001 4:28 pm

Bioware's steadfast *refusal* to fix (or even aknowledge) that these bugs exist. I am not only talking about the Solar quesition but also well know (except at Bioware) bugs such as the broken Harper Plot, the haste bug, and the two-weapon wielding bug (which really hurts blades).

@Polaris, it's one thing to publically state "yes, we have bugs," and it's another one to quietly fix 'em. Bioware has traditionally done the latter in their games. Are you saying you have personal knowledge that they aren't working on bugfixes for ToB?

polaris · Post by **polaris** » Thu Aug 09, 2001 6:01 pm

ToB has been out for a couple of months now and many of the known bugs are things that were either FINE in SoA (and can be fixed by removing ToB files from the override folder) OR were things that had already been fixed at Balderdash with Black-Isle's full knowledge and consent.

Given that there *still* isn't even a version 1 of a ToB patch (just a beta which fixes largely machine oriented issues), I think is is clear that Bioware has no intention of fixing its mess.

I would be estatic to be proven wrong on this point btw. Unfortunately I just don't think I am.

-Polaris

Raven Avenger · Post by **Raven Avenger** » Fri Aug 10, 2001 6:59 am

Yeah, few months ago, I have e-mailed the BG team, reporting of a bug in Watcher's 1rst level (If you don't kill both statue mages when he cast mislead, you could not acces the second level when you will kill all the statues) and a guy said that they know about this bug and they will finish the patch *the newt week* as I said, I have wrote months ago.

Aegis · Post by **Aegis** » Fri Aug 10, 2001 7:10 am

Geez, some of these bugs you guys have found are astounding. I've haven't run into any of these. The only things I could call "bugs" in this game is the bad A.I. Which I fixed *Myself* with the help of my friend...

(I never thought a Kobold horde could do so much damage...)

Yes I know I mucked with the HArd-coding of the game, but it's better then waiting for a company to get in, and get the stuff like out.

Daniel · Post by **Daniel** » Fri Aug 10, 2001 8:43 am

Much too short, I have almost finished it one week! And the story ends here... thats the biggest ****. Maybe Balsur's Gate 3, somwhere near Waterdeep maybe? And Cespanar ****s up the gameplay, since the little impish bastard doesn't have a list with his 'recipies', takes too much time and ****s up a bit of the gameplay. O well, NWN is going to be a nice follow-up and is going to be so rocking cool.

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Fri Aug 10, 2001 8:03 pm

This is an interesting thread, because I thought for an ADD-ON it was pretty good (I'm a Half-Life fan, like most people, but from what I've heard I'm not going anywhere near Blue Shift). Is it too linear? Yes. More NPC's? If it's that hard to program, then I'm content with Saravok (although he's VERY over-rated). Too many magic items? No question.

The best point is something Xyx posted that I strongly agree with, and it's that any other member of your party can become as powerful as you. Why not cap the party at 20 or 30 but allow you to go on. More options like the qualities you picked up in hell would be good, though I don't think you need to go to hell all the time to gain them. The last time I played BGI I cheated in all the tomes to raise ALL my stats to 25 so I was maxed out at every attribute. It's the only cheat I allowed myself to use. Unbalanced? Sure, but damn if I didn't feel like a God.

Aegis · Post by **Aegis** » Fri Aug 10, 2001 9:21 pm

Doc makes a good point about capping your team, but not the PC...