Super demi-lich killer strat

Nightmare · Post by **Nightmare** » Fri Jul 06, 2001 6:53 am

Originally posted by Gruntboy:
Play nicely girls.

ROFL

Getting two rings of the ram, two rings of gaxx in my view is an exploit. I was a scripting problem. Baldurdash fixed most of these, but most people have ToB now. By my view, getting two rings of ram/gaxx is like using the exp exploit in the Brynnlaw Festhall (or something like that). Or using fake talk or Cloudkill-out-of-range to kill a dragon. These are all exploits. Now, I'm not saying you shouldn't use these, but it all depends on your style of play.

@Sloanzilla, he just ment he though it was a cheap/cheese way to Kangaxx. It is an exploit, after all.

PDF · Post by **PDF** » Fri Jul 06, 2001 9:14 am

Well, my thoughts on this :
- BG2 has very numerous, very powerful items, my chars have wayyyy much goodies than in any PnP D&D game... A mage with Robe of Vecna and Staff of the Magi, a Paladin with Red Dragon scale and Holy Avenger, and so on...
- Some items have been created for BG2, and are sometimes just too powerful - Cloak of Mirroring, anyone ?
- In parallel some foes have been beefed up consequently - Firkraag is much more powerfaul than a "standard" red dragon for example, Mages have some "scripted" automatic spells,...

In conclusion we thus have a "powergame" when compared to plain old 2nd Ed AD&D.
If you don't like powerRPG try Realms of Arkania

BUT but but I find it VERY cheap/cheesy to use programming "defaults" to have duplicates of already overpowerful items...
Getting the 2 regen rings is OK, although I never had the idea of pickpocketing the guy who have one before reading it in the FAQ. Two rings of the Ram (or Gaxx) is just cheating.

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Fri Jul 06, 2001 12:52 pm

Originally posted by PDF:
some foes have been beefed up consequently - Firkraag is much more powerfaul than a "standard" red dragon for example, Mages have some "scripted" automatic spells

These are the programmers' (admittedly lame) attempts to fake contingencies and sequencers. These spells are totally un-scriptable, and apparently creatures cannot be made with these already in effect. Actually, they take it easy on you. A smart Mage would have all of the triggers and contingencies ready, and would place attack spells in them. If you still think this is abusive, meditate on how you would like it if your opponent opened the battle with three Horrid Wiltings...

On the other hand, enemies do cheat. Half of the Mages cast Vocalize without needing to have the spell memorized and without you being able to disrupt them. There are more examples than just Vocalize, but they are sparse and seemingly random.

For what it's worth: The designers did not have duplicate rings of the Ram or Gaxx in mind when they made the game. (Ab)using a programming oversight or a design flaw is an exploit and could be considered cheesy by some people, perhaps even cheating by others.

*Xyx quickdraws his fire extinguishers and readies himself for the flames*

Fezek · Post by **Fezek** » Fri Jul 06, 2001 5:03 pm

I would really like to know what people define as "cheesy" or "cheating"?
What separates cheating, powergaming and just regular playing? Saying things like you shouldn't cloudkill a dragon or Kensai/Mages are for munchkins or suchlike I just don't get!!

Metatron · Post by **Metatron** » Fri Jul 06, 2001 5:49 pm

Here's a quick rundown of my own lexicon of game breaking, listed from most offensive to least offensive:

Cheats- Deliberately breaking or circumventing the rules of the game. Using Shadowkeeper or CLUAConsole to benefit your character counts as cheating.

Cheap(Cheesy, Lame)- Deliberately exploiting an oversight in game design. For instance, getting two rings of the ram, two rings of gaxx, using cloudkill on an off screen dragon, etc. Depending on your viewpoint, this may include repeated use of the "reload" function.

Powergaming- Completely legally within the rule structure of the game, creating an ultra powerful character such as the Kensai-Mage. Some might argue that this is inevitable with such powerful items as the cloak of mirroring and Carsomyr laying around. I certainly don't disdain to use such items, though neither do I deliberately attempt to make my character "unbeatable." It just happens that way.

Fezek · Post by **Fezek** » Fri Jul 06, 2001 5:57 pm

Cheers for the Vox Populi. Much appreciated

Nightmare · Post by **Nightmare** » Fri Jul 06, 2001 7:07 pm

Damn! double post.

[ 07-06-2001: Message edited by: Gaxx_Firkraag ]

Nightmare · Post by **Nightmare** » Fri Jul 06, 2001 7:08 pm

I agree with Metatron.

Aegon · Post by **Aegon** » Fri Jul 06, 2001 11:15 pm

Nice to see someone has set themselves up as the expert on which things are cheats, which are exploits and what a powergamer is. Sort of like the folks who try to tell other folks how to enjoy their games.

In one of my games I got two Celestial Fury swords because my party retreated from the second floor of the Guarded Compound to avoid area affect spells. Koshi followed us down and was soon killed, dropping the first one. When we went back upstairs, the entire part was there again, we killed them all again (tough to do this twice without resting with a 4-person party) and got a second fury.
Planned? No.
Unexpected? Yes
Fun? Yes.

Picking Kangaxx for a ring was a lark, too. I didn't expect it to work with my meager 80 pickpocket skill, but it did. No reloads were involved. When he went down, he stayed down. This was my first "thief" type protagonist ... he pickpockets everyone before he whacks them.

And if I'd had four rings of the Rams to use on him, I would have. Only got one of those *after* Tolgerias bit the dust.

Every game is different for me.

Is it fair for practically every mage in the game to have spell trigger and ruby ray when I haven't even found one of those spells yet (in three times through)?

Quit pronouncing judgment on people. It's mankind's worst trait.

Metatron · Post by **Metatron** » Sat Jul 07, 2001 12:36 am

Originally posted by Aegon:
Nice to see someone has set themselves up as the expert on which things are cheats, which are exploits and what a powergamer is. Sort of like the folks who try to tell other folks how to enjoy their games.

Easy there, champ. I'm just stating a point of view. If you like cheating, if you prefer not to call it "cheating", then enjoy. I'm not going to come to your house and break your legs with a truncheon or anything.

Aegon · Post by **Aegon** » Sat Jul 07, 2001 1:00 am

Originally posted by Metatron:
Easy there, champ. I'm just stating a point of view. If you like cheating, if you prefer not to call it "cheating", then enjoy. I'm not going to come to your house and break your legs with a truncheon or anything.

Champ? How condescending. Then you ask me to back off but tell me I'm cheating even if I don't know it? That's not stating a point of view, that's a attack on my play style. I like to remain civil in these kinds of discussions, especially given my advanced years and your apparent lack of maturity, but I just hate people who issue a challenge while they try to blow you off and show their superiority. Too bad this isn't like some newsgroups where I could just "block sender."

[ 07-07-2001: Message edited by: Aegon ]

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Sat Jul 07, 2001 2:55 am

I have a hard time deciding which I dislike more...

People telling others how to or not to play or enjoy their own game.
People getting all uppity and defensive just because someone says they think such-and-such is cheesy or cheating.

What is wrong with having a problem with cheating?
What is wrong with not having a problem with cheating?
Why does anyone care what others think about this?

Laurelei · Post by **Laurelei** » Sat Jul 07, 2001 3:35 am

Confessions of a cheese player:

I did it! I pickpocketed EVERYONE my first game through 'cause I was broke! I didn't KNOW it was going to net me two Rings of the Ram, I really didn't!

At the time, I didn't know that you could use the much MORE cheesy strategy of selling and stealing items repeatedly from fences (and that's "legal")

I never thought of pickpocketing Kangaxx, and didn't have time to do so, but I MIGHT! I might just decide to see what it's like to have TWO rings of Gaxx in one of my multiple runthroughs! And you can't stop me! Muahahaha

I once played through Baldur's Gate 1 with all my character's stats set to 25 with Gatekeeper! YES I DID! (and you know what, it wasn't a whole hell of a lot of fun and I never did it again)

I have also used the Import/Export trick in BG1 to get ALL my multiplayer characters one of each of the tomes and one of each of the dreams so that I could develop six characters at a time to import into BGII! Heck, they are all Bhaalspawn, I told myself! If I played them through singly, they would all get those tomes and dreams for themselves! I have JUSTIFIED that particular cheese! So there!

I have re-rolled for upwards of an hour to get stats that I like. (Yes, I DO have a life, I just like this game better

)

In BG1 I reload (I usually limit myself to a maximum of five reloads per character, but cheese nonetheless) every time I level to get the maximum hp possible. I also save and reload if I fail to scribe a spell. (Actually, since your spells don't transfer over to BGII I don't bother with this any more.) Fortunately for me, that particular cheese is built in to BG2-"Normal" rules.

And at least once, I INTEND to GET the big metal unit, and to USE it! For me, however, that means I gotta play through BG1 once more so I can import a character with the silly golden pants, cause I don't know how to use Clua and don't want to. But if you WANT to create golden pants with Clua, if that's YOUR cheese, BE MY GUEST!

Pick your cheese, boys and girls! Part of the thing that makes these games so re-playable are the multiple options for cheese/nocheese and the fact that you can continue to make the game challenging or easy in so many ways!

And in case you weren't sure, this whole post is very tongue in cheek, but it is all true, this is MY Cheese and I LIKE IT!

Oh, AND, since I'm confessing to ALL the cheese I can think of, my monk uses "Draw Upon Holy Might" so that she can wear Keldorn's Armor

[ 07-07-2001: Message edited by: Laurelei ]

Nightmare · Post by **Nightmare** » Sat Jul 07, 2001 7:22 am

Now now, boys and girls, don't get all pissed off. If you want to cheat, use cheese or powergame, there's nothing wrong with that. And to all who can't stand people who cheat, use cheese or powergame, then just don't do it in your game. You can't control someone elses game.

Again, I have to agree with Metatron. I personnally don't like to cheat, use cheese or be a powergamer (not most of the time at least

).

Think it this way: an uber-powerful lich appears from a coffin. Do you:
a)Try to pickpocket it the instant after it appears,
b)run away in horror, screaming,
c)try to kill it,
d)find out what it's intentions are.

I choose b)

[ 07-07-2001: Message edited by: Gaxx_Firkraag ]

Metatron · Post by **Metatron** » Sat Jul 07, 2001 11:08 am

Originally posted by Aegon:
Champ? How condescending. Then you ask me to back off but tell me I'm cheating even if I don't know it? That's not stating a point of view, that's a attack on my play style. I like to remain civil in these kinds of discussions, especially given my advanced years and your apparent lack of maturity, but I just hate people who issue a challenge while they try to blow you off and show their superiority. Too bad this isn't like some newsgroups where I could just "block sender."

Now you're just trolling for an angry response so you can get all indignant and morally superior. Sorry, I'm not biting.

Weasel · Post by **Weasel** » Sat Jul 07, 2001 11:11 am

Originally posted by Xyx:

Why does anyone care what others think about this?

You have seen the light.

I have to say your one of the few that has. I don't see were someone playing their game has anything to do with others. It's their game {PERIOD}

If someone wants to use all of the 'cheats' 'cheese' let them. It has no bearing on your own game. If so and so wants to come here and brag about 'I beat the Super Duper Can't Be Killed Lich without cheating' with 3 Rings of the Ram, let them make a fool out of their selfs.

Why??

Because it has no bearing on your own game.

(Note to self give a 5 to Xyx)

Nightmare · Post by **Nightmare** » Sat Jul 07, 2001 11:51 am

I'm not telling anyone how to play their game, just some people are being a$$-holes.

Weasel · Post by **Weasel** » Sat Jul 07, 2001 11:56 am

Originally posted by Gaxx_Firkraag:
I'm not telling anyone how to play their game, just some people are being a$$-holes.

It's a character flaw of mine.

Kyle Marksteiner · Post by **Kyle Marksteiner** » Sat Jul 07, 2001 12:51 pm

I think you should be allowed 10 rings of the ram- one for each finger.

Metatron · Post by **Metatron** » Sat Jul 07, 2001 1:06 pm

Originally posted by Sloanzilla:
I think you should be allowed 10 rings of the ram- one for each finger.

Don't be ridiculous.
You need at least five fingers free for Rings of Gaxx.