Would you defend a stranger

Magrus · Post by **Magrus** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 4:42 pm

[QUOTE=Vicsun]For all I know, the one being beaten down might be a rapist who was just caught in the act. Or, much more likely, the fight is some personal drama which has been brewing for longer than would care to guess in which there's no room for outsiders.
[/QUOTE]

Very true, and it's why I speak to the person's involved first. Chances are, if it's someone attacking another person who's done something wrong, they will turn on me, pissed off, and say so and go back to attacking the person. If so, I try calming the person down so they don't get arrested.

There's a few people I know I'd like to beat senseless but haven't, simply because frankly, they aren't worth the effort. While they have hurt countless people, they're habits are also ultimately self-destructive and I see no need to do such things when they can do it to themselves slowly and over time.

Yet, even if you wouldn't want to jump into the fray so to speak, you wouldn't do anything? Not even call the police, or anything?

Vicsun · Post by **Vicsun** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 4:57 pm

Magrus wrote:Very true, and it's why I speak to the person's involved first. Chances are, if it's someone attacking another person who's done something wrong, they will turn on me, pissed off, and say so and go back to attacking the person. If so, I try calming the person down so they don't get arrested.

If I had the chance to speak to someone before he started a fight, I most certainly would try to talk him out of it. As for during, my experience shows me people aren't really that talkative while exchanging blows.

That, and a two-word explanation is usually not enough to really clarify what's going on.

There's a few people I know I'd like to beat senseless but haven't, simply because frankly, they aren't worth the effort. While they have hurt countless people, they're habits are also ultimately self-destructive and I see no need to do such things when they can do it to themselves slowly and over time.

While this is going to against the testosterone rich, macho-atmosphere this thread has developed, I have to (proudly?) admit to having able to, so far, avoid every single serious fight that's come my way. And with a sharp and loose tongue (too often demonstrated here

), this is a near-miracle.

Yet, even if you wouldn't want to jump into the fray so to speak, you wouldn't do anything? Not even call the police, or anything?

This really depends on the circumstance. If I were the only witness and the beating was severe, then yes, I would call the cops. In most other cases - no. I'm kinda selfish like that.

Magrus · Post by **Magrus** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 5:05 pm

Vicsun wrote:If I had the chance to speak to someone before he started a fight, I most certainly would try to talk him out of it. As for during, my experience shows me people aren't really that talkative while exchanging blows. That, and a two-word explanation is usually not enough to really clarify what's going on.

This is true, yet, I simply can't stand by and let someone be beaten up.

While this is going to against the testosterone rich, macho-atmosphere this thread has developed, I have to (proudly?) admit to having able to, so far, avoid every single serious fight that's come my way. And with a sharp and loose tongue (too often demonstrated here ), this is a near-miracle.

Considering what I say when angry, drunk or bored, I'm shocked I'm not in fights on a near constant basis to be honest. It's rare I do have to fight, despite all of the incidents I can claim to have been in. Apparently that's a lot more than most people ever end up having to deal with though...

This really depends on the circumstance. If I were the only witness and the beating was severe, then yes, I would call the cops. In most other cases - no. I'm kinda selfish like that.

See, this, is where I see a problem. If everyone witnessing it has the same view as you, then no one does anything, correct?

Vicsun · Post by **Vicsun** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 5:38 pm

Playing in imaginary glass castles...

[QUOTE=Magrus]See, this, is where I see a problem. If everyone witnessing it has the same view as you, then no one does anything, correct?[/QUOTE]
No

Firstly, if no one is seriously injured, I don't see a reason for the police to be involved. As a matter of fact, it's usually best for all that they are not - testifying is a hassle.

Now that that's out of the way: all the hypothetical situations I've constructed assume I know nothing of the participants. Now, in my experience at least, fights are never, ever between two people only with everyone around them clueless. And as such, one of those involved will be a lot better suited to calling the police, and much more likely to do it. If I were in the shoes of one of those somehow involved in the fight (by knowing the participants) I would call the police, but the question this thread asks is if I would do it for a stranger which I would not.

Kipi · Post by **Kipi** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 2:31 am

[QUOTE=Magrus]See, this, is where I see a problem. If everyone witnessing it has the same view as you, then no one does anything, correct?[/QUOTE]

Actually, I agree with this one. And I think most of the people witnessing thinks that this fight isn't actually their problem, so they don't do anything. I must confess that I think same way. First reason why I won't do anything is, the reason stated here already, that I don't know why the fight begun, and who is actually guilty. The person who is beaten may actually be the attacker.
Secondly, I don't want to get myself hurt. As a basketball referee I have experienced several times situation where player starts beating other player. As a referee I have to do something, usually this means dragging the attacker away. Almost every time I have got several small or a bit bigger injures and wounds. This is because when I try to drag beater away, (s)he is so angry and full of adrenaline that (s)he starts beating me when I not able to beat the other player.
On the other hand, if the situation is not yet bad, I usually try to talk. This mostly doesn't work because, also as stated here earlier, person full of adrenaline doesn't want to listen common sense. Also I try to avoid situations where the attacker is bigger than me, because I have learned that it's not fun to be the target of the angry of guy who is 200cm long and weight is over 100kg (I'm a bit over 180 cm and 60 kg

).

SO, as a conclusion, I believe that if I'm in town and see a situation where someone is beating other, I wouldn't do anything, not even call the police. This is because if I call, I usually have to stay there to wait police, and if the beater notice this, I'm in trouble. So I just walk away, like I think quite many do.

Magrus · Post by **Magrus** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 6:29 am

SO, as a conclusion, I believe that if I'm in town and see a situation where someone is beating other, I wouldn't do anything, not even call the police. This is because if I call, I usually have to stay there to wait police, and if the beater notice this, I'm in trouble. So I just walk away, like I think quite many do.

I just have to ask. What would you think of the person you see walking by, seeing you and then promptly rushing off on their merry way upon seeing you being beaten senseless if you were in that situation as the victim?

Cuchulain82 · Post by **Cuchulain82** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 7:10 am

[QUOTE=Denethorn]Violence against women is disgusting. Just today I heard how another guy and his wife around here got beaten up. <snip> There are normally atleast a small swarm of clubbers around there, not to mention the vast quantity of bouncers.[/QUOTE]
As I have said before, violence against women instantly enrages me.

Fights really aren't that big a deal, and usually they are caused by simple bullying. Glass houses or not, sometimes people try to push other people around, or get physical just for fun. That isn't right, and that is usually when another person should step in.

Ideal Maxima · Post by **Ideal Maxima** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 8:21 am

[QUOTE=Magrus]

If a situation came up where you were walking down the road, heard screaming, and saw someone on the side of the road being mercilessly beaten by another person, what would you do?[/QUOTE]

Yes, well what if the man that was being beaten was instead a gang leader, and the guy that was beating him up was a normal person whose wife was beaten by the gang leader? Maybe the normal person just happened to corner the gangleader by himself and decided to take revenge?

Well, this may all be irrelavant, but what I'm trying to say is that I wouldn't interfere because I don't know both sides of the story.

Erenor · Post by **Erenor** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 9:17 am

That's a tricky situation. I've been fortunate that I haven't seen too many guys fighting anywhere without me knowing one of them or what was going on. I'm still in college and not in a large city, so most of the violence that I see and could respond to has been at house parties or neighborhood bars and clubs. I've only seen two fights between just guys that I've actually joined on purpose. The rest have been bar fights that either everybody got into it or I was trying to pull people apart before someone got hurt needlessly. Encounters with women being abused is a totally different situation for me. I have a temper regardless, but when a girl says no she means no. I've broken bones and gotten my ass kicked in situations like that, but I've never backed down when I've seen a girl in trouble. Two girls? Just pull them apart, but when a guy or several are dragging a girl off my temper takes hold and I rush in as soon as I can. Sometimes I've called the police or friends first to help me, but I couldn't live with myself if I sat and did nothing as an innocent like that was abused. Unfortunately, where I live that sort of thing happens way too often and there aren't enough police or people that aren't afraid to stop it from happening. In response to Mag's latest question: If I was getting assaulted and beaten up and somebody that could try and help walked by, I would hope that they would help me, so in the same situation I'd like to help them. It makes the world a better place overall.

Magrus · Post by **Magrus** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 9:27 am

If I was getting assaulted and beaten up and somebody that could try and help walked by, I would hope that they would help me, so in the same situation I'd like to help them. It makes the world a better place overall.

*nods* That's my thought. I've been that guy on the ground being attacked by a group of older, bigger, stronger people. I cursed the people who walked off and did nothing. I think it's horribly cruel to not do something. You don't have to play super-hero and jump off a roof-top to save the day, you could even just call the police around the corner and leave as soon as they have the address and know someone's being attacked.

Granted, each and every situation is different and will have different reasons for occurring. However, I'd rather risk interupting someone beating on a criminal or scum bag and get screamed for it, than risk leaving some helpless person to be beaten and mauled into a 5-month stay in the hospital afterwards.

I find it interesting people react differently with women and men. I've jumped in for either. Would those people who said they'd ignore the situation do anything if they saw, say a 5 year old child being slugged repeated on the side of the road?

Erenor · Post by **Erenor** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 9:36 am

You'd hope that everyone would stop and risk themselves for the life of a child. I couldn't live with myself if I just walked/drove by something like that. My only confusion between men and women is when I don't know what's going on. Sometimes somebody slept with another guys wife and the husband is just getting some payback. Sometimes a child was abused and the father is kicking the other dude's ass. Whose side do you jump in when stuff like that is up in the air? I mean, if I see two guys just duking it out, fine, but when one walks over to the other guy down on the ground with a crowbar, then I don't care what happened, that's taking it too far. I see what you mean, though. You could at least step in and find out what's going on and prevent it from escalating into some serious hurt or even murder.

Magrus · Post by **Magrus** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 10:04 am

Exactly. I know for a fact if I decided to beat on my old friend Tim, at this point even his mother would say he deserved it. I don't though. If I did, I wouldn't do it outside, that's for sure. Chances are I'd get dragged off of him by someone else he's screwed over and they'd jump on him instead.

If someone's taken it into their heads they need to beat someone up for revenge, most likely if you shout at them for them to stop they'll tell you what happened. You might get screamed at, or grabbed and screamed at. Most likely though, they won't want to hit you too. Simply resume their attack, or realize they've done what they came for and end up leaving instead. Now, if you grab them, I know if I'm touched when in that state and don't recognize the voice of who's grabbing onto me, I grab that person and immobilize them until I realize whats going on. Most likely by slamming them into a wall and shocking them while I process who they are and what they are doing there. Still, if you talk to me and try calming me down, I'm not going to hit you, even giving my horrid temper.

I've seen some merciless beatings, and for example, the time those teen's jumped a friend of my brother's kicking him on the ground while he was having an asthma attack. If my brother and I hadn't have intervened, there is no doubt he would have died from suffocation. I would have had to have lived with that, for the rest of my life. That I was too afraid to accept a few bruises in exchange for saving that kids life. That's just ridiculous to me to say "oh, not my business" and watch the kid be killed.

Erenor · Post by **Erenor** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 10:15 am

I usually get too caught up in the fight to notice who's around me unless I'm already winning and the other guy is on the ground. If someone grabbed me, I'd probably assume they were coming into it and start swinging their way if I didn't realize who they were. I'm not one to stop and let the other guy up if he hurt somebody or seriously pissed me off. I do stop once they go unconscious or stop resisting completely.

Magrus · Post by **Magrus** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 10:28 am

That's how I get. I learned long ago, you just don't stop until the other person stops moving. You end fights quicker that way. Luckily, I've learned to simply grab, lift and slam any newcomer's against whatever surface is closest to me in order to get a look at them before I start swinging again. My friends have had to pull me off of people enough in the past that I started doing that to keep from pummelling them too. Generally, if you get lifted off of your feet and the breath knocked out of you like that you aren't able to do anything for a second or two at the least. It gives me time enough to stop and register who it is I'm holding onto and what they are doing there. If they swing though, that's another story.

I've been told by my friends they love having me around, just because they know if something happens I will keep them save, no matter what. The time the guy pulled a knife on me and wanted my one female friend to go off alone with him kind of sealed that deal with all of my female friends. I didn't back down and she didn't get dragged off and raped.

Erenor · Post by **Erenor** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 10:35 am

I just wish more people stuck up for what they believe in, instead of sitting there and staring like it's a movie and saying to themselves: "This isn't happening..."

Magrus · Post by **Magrus** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 10:37 am

Me too. Those are the kind of people that say "oh, why do such horrible things happen to these nice people" constantly too.

DUR, no one helps them you sod.

Erenor · Post by **Erenor** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 10:40 am

Too often people like that learn the hard way when they get mugged or raped and nobody helps them. It's so sad. Anyway, I'm off to take my sister shopping downtown. I'm not about her go into the city alone. Have a great day, Mag.

Magrus · Post by **Magrus** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 10:42 am

[QUOTE=Erenor]Too often people like that learn the hard way when they get mugged or raped and nobody helps them. It's so sad. Anyway, I'm off to take my sister shopping downtown. I'm not about her go into the city alone. Have a great day, Mag.[/QUOTE]

So, so true.

That's nice of you, have a good one.

melegaunt · Post by **melegaunt** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 4:42 pm

I figure most people would like to think they would.. in such a Hypothetical situation.

Very few people though actually have. I have a scar down my forarm to prove i would. Next time tho ill remember that even a metal bar can cut.. lol and dont block with your arms! Cause it hurts like hell! Its all right tho.. he got his...

Magrus · Post by **Magrus** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 4:56 pm

Unfortunately, the only cars I bear are from my own stupidity.

Good to know someone else has stood up for another person in need though.